Engine swap woes

[Cloggy Saint]

After staring at my 2.5 M20 on a pallet for 2 years I decided it was time to do something with it. Long story short, in almost 8 hours I managed to remove the rear section of the exhaust (couldn't find a spanner or socket to fit the downpipe nuts), the drive shafts and 3 of the 4 diff' bolts. This could take some time .....

[daimlerman]

Down pipe nuts are 17mm!
But expect rust issues,aided and abetted by heat.Try liberal doses of WD40 or a similar penetrating fluid.

Similar story,I guess,with your fourth prop/diff nut.May help,here,to have the wieght of the car helping you.Place drive on ramps under the rear wheels for support and try again.

Leave the car 'rear high',BTW,it helps to reduce the 'dangle angle' as the engine comes out/goes in.

Go have a long soak in a warm bath,if available,get your lady to rub your back,then get back out there tomorrow!

[Jesus325iTouring]

After staring at my 2.5 M20 on a pallet for 2 years I decided it was time to do something with it. Long story short, in almost 8 hours I managed to remove the rear section of the exhaust (couldn't find a spanner or socket to fit the downpipe nuts), the drive shafts and 3 of the 4 diff' bolts. This could take some time .....

I feel ya, just this minute got in after pulling a B20 out my new Touring, frigging auto box dipstick wouldn't undo easy

Bring on tomorrow and pull the B25 out my old Touring and hopefully get it fitted into the new one, man I ache already Still will be worth the agro

[Cloggy Saint]

17mm downpipe nuts? Mine seem more like 13.5 mm . I've got the car on a bridge and the diff is supported with a transmission jack so the weight is taken up by that. The last (upper) diff bolt is tight as fook and it's not possible to get a socket on it and although I can get an open spanner on it there's no room to get a bar on or give it a whack with a hammer.
As far as removing the engine goes, I'm planning on lifting the car over the engine as I want to replace the subrame/steering rack at the same time so it seems the best option but that plan may change.

[daimlerman]

Those upper diff/axle carrier bolts are proper buggers to get at.

Try a 19mm combination spanner(ring end on the bolt)with another big one linked to the open ended part.

Going back,you will need that transmission jack to 'jiggle' the diff up and down to get the top swine bolts to engage the diff.

Good idea to lift the car over the front sub-frame,something that I have never tried.Be aware that the 4 front subframe to body bolts WILL be tight,and that they have been known to snap....so lot's of WD40,slacken,tighten,slacken a bit more,re-tighten until they free off.

[Jesus325iTouring]

17mm downpipe nuts? Mine seem more like 13.5 mm .

Mine too, I can't remember what I used in the end, there was lots of WTF's involved!

[jmc330i]

Those upper diff/axle carrier bolts are proper buggers to get at.

Try a 19mm combination spanner(ring end on the bolt)with another big one linked to the open ended part.

Pivot head ratchet works well here or a spanner with a pivoted ratchet ring end. I prefer the ratchet following a broken finger incident after linking two spanners and having one slip!

[daimlerman]

Those upper diff/axle carrier bolts are proper buggers to get at.

Try a 19mm combination spanner(ring end on the bolt)with another big one linked to the open ended part.

Pivot head ratchet works well here or a spanner with a pivoted ratchet ring end. I prefer the ratchet following a broken finger incident after linking two spanners and having one slip!

Following a bad break to my right wrist some years ago,I find that using my feet helps with diff mounting bolts!

OP,going back,you must re-check those bolts for tightness on a regular basis,it's impossible to get a torque wrench in there to check tightness on re-fitting,and the zone has history of these bolts working loose and ruining axle carriers.

[Cloggy Saint]

Thanks for the tips people, hopefully tomorrow will be more productive.

[Grrrmachine]

It's a right pain to get a breaker bar into many places, so it's worth learning the spanner-linking technique:

[youtube][/youtube]

The other thing that helps stubborn bolts is heat. In lieu of a decent blowtorch, I've found one of these really handy for stubborn bolts:



And when neither of those works, a Dremel with some slit discs works wonders

[pacerpete]

Exhaust downpipe nuts should be 14 mm. Removing the rear diff mount bolt and letting the whole lot drop down gives much better access to the rear most 19s.

The biggest potential for aggro is the driveshaft to diff flange bolts. Be sure to clean out the driveshaft hex bolt recesses, use a quality hex socket and shock them with a hammer. If these round off, things get boring

[Cloggy Saint]

Luckily the driveshaft to diff flange bolts came out without any aggro at all, but I did have to grind off one of the prop to diff nuts.

[magpie]

wait till you get to the front prop bolts


spinning gearbox support bracket bolts are also fun .

[BenHar]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-Extra-L ... 3f294fdede

This does the top diff bolts easily.

Ben

[Brianmoooore]

Exhaust downpipe nuts should be 14 mm.

Originals are (were) 14mm, but the bag of copper coated replacements I've had for years are 15mm.
Worth fitting new, unless they are still shiny.

[Jesus325iTouring]

I only removed the front prop, am I going to discover I need to swap the whole prop to go with the B25? Bearing in mind i'm converting the exisiting car from auto to manual.

[daimlerman]

Rear halfs are all the same,Roger,the difference is in the front bit.
Do check for the white dots for alignment,though!

If the white dots have vanished,both prop yokes need to be in the same plane,this reduces the error to just two possible positions.

[Jesus325iTouring]

And if I get alignment wrong, lots of vibration?

[daimlerman]

And if I get alignment wrong, lots of vibration?

Oh yes!

Plus exhaust/heatshield removal to sort it out....

[Jesus325iTouring]

Ok Malc, cheers, right, lets get to todays task, i'm guessing it won't be a pleasant day, 4 years worth of sitting there will be sure to have siezed everything up

[Brianmoooore]

Use the whole manual prop. if at all possible. Any prop. assembled from two halves of different props. will be out of balance to some degree, except by way of a coincidence.
The prop. on an E30 regularly turns at 100 times per second or more, and is only supported at the middle by a thin piece of stretched rubber, so needs to be perfectly in balance.
There's a DIY way of balancing a prop. with two jubilee clips, but this is better avoided if you can.

[Jesus325iTouring]

Ok so, today was a cracking day. We pulled my b25 out with no dramas, the drama began putting it back in. Not much of a problem, but a bloody nuisance, we just can't get the engine back on the mounts, we're really struggling to line it back but don't why, we have the back of the car jacked up to make it easier, but just don't seem to be able to get the engine back far enough to sit on the mounts, WTF??

[daimlerman]

Gearbox attached to the engine?
'box crossmember in the correct slot?

You're doing auto to manual as well IIRC?

Behind the glovebox liner you will find a black/yellow cable(starter signal)on the autobox cars this is divided by a pair of black cables,these wander off to a relay,then to the rear of the selector thingy.Un-plug the two plain blacks and remove as much of the harness as you can,and plug the two black/yellow's together.At the gearstick end,you should be able to identify a pair of wires that go the the reverse lights,this plug will match the one on the manual 'box reverse light switch.

[Jesus325iTouring]

Gearbox attached to the engine?
'box crossmember in the correct slot?

You're doing auto to manual as well IIRC?

Behind the glovebox liner you will find a black/yellow cable(starter signal)on the autobox cars this is divided by a pair of black cables,these wander off to a relay,then to the rear of the selector thingy.Un-plug the two plain blacks and remove as much of the harness as you can,and plug the two black/yellow's together.At the gearstick end,you should be able to identify a pair of wires that go the the reverse lights,this plug will match the one on the manual 'box reverse light switch.

Yes Malc, gearbox attatched to engine, gearbox crossmember not yet attached to car body as the whole is still to far forward

Thanks for the additional tips too

[daimlerman]

You have the rear of the car lifted,did you try lifting the gearbox on a trolley jack?
It should just roll back into roughly the right place....remember that the block leans to the exhaust side,that gave me problems once,so check how you are lifting/slinging it.

Other possible is the mounts,are they in the same holes on the block as the one you pulled out?

[Jesus325iTouring]

You have the rear of the car lifted,did you try lifting the gearbox on a trolley jack?
It should just roll back into roughly the right place....remember that the block leans to the exhaust side,that gave me problems once,so check how you are lifting/slinging it.

Other possible is the mounts,are they in the same holes on the block as the one you pulled out?

Right, my mate did mention about the mounts being in the same place, I said I thought they could only go in one place, will chaeck in a minute and get back.......

[Jesus325iTouring]

it wouldn't seem they have anywhere else to go, the part number is also the same. We must have something malaligned but I can't see what

[Cloggy Saint]

Good day for me too. B20 is out as is the subframe, suspension, steering rack etc. Re-attached the suspension to the new subframe and discovered that my new steering rack is from an E36 but got around that (I think). One more day should have everything assembled and back in place. Don't know when that day will be though!

[daimlerman]

Good day for me too. B20 is out as is the subframe, suspension, steering rack etc. Re-attached the suspension to the new subframe and discovered that my new steering rack is from an E36 but got around that (I think). One more day should have everything assembled and back in place. Don't know when that day will be though!

Well done,one out of two is a decent score!

[Cloggy Saint]

One problem though, there are no marks on the 2.5 prop' to line up. What can I do about this?

[daimlerman]

The prop yokes should be in the same plane,so you have just two positions to choose from.Bit better than 32,or however many splines there are!

Another option is to take the two halves to a place that can spin them up and balance it for you.

[Cloggy Saint]

I don't have a very good record where 50-50s are concerned!

[Jesus325iTouring]

I don't have a very good record where 50-50s are concerned!

Well then put it all together, then immediately take it all apart and do it up the other way

[Cloggy Saint]

Good plan, I'll do it