Scotland - referendum just for zoners :)

[Nobby_N]

I hope they vote to stay and then England can have a vote to Fooook em off! We decide when you leave you haggis loving fooookers! We took your Freeeeeeeedooooom

[appletree]

Its an interesting way to live and obviously it is working for you but at the end of the day how many other people do you think are willing to work as hard as you or even have a job to work at as hard as hard you and also want to better there selves, the reality is many people are happy to do the bare minimum and just keep there nose clean as such. When it comes to work there are generally a few who work flat out and carry the rest, these are the people who either get burnt out early in life or wake up and move to somwhere where there effort is appreciated and rewarded.

Ive spent quite abit of time in scotland with work over the last 10 years and chatting to the engineering staff in the dairys around Glasgow and Aberdeen about the vote ive either had one of two responses, "the majority ( of scots) are to lazy to make it work, expect to much and many will vote yes out of patriotism and wont understand the consequences"

Or

"Next time you come to service our machines dont forget to send me a letter so I can tell them to let you in to my country, if we still use you (company I work for)...

For our sakes if it does go yes then I hope it works out or it will no doubt fall to us to bail scotland out in some way.

However if it does go Yes and then fails I wonder how many people will still have Yes flags on there houses and Aye tattoos on the arms....

Still trying to work that out to be honest I can see benefits on both sides. But its my nature to embrace change in my life and probably why I have never stayed in a job for more than 3 years.

Life is generally what you make of it and success is always possible if you try hard enough. I was told I would amount to nothing at school and now take great pride in proving my teachers wrong, with a good job for the number one business globally in our field, a wife, a son, a house and generally enough cash in my pocket to enjoy life.

I want to believe the determination of the Scottish people can make this work and provide better opportunities for my son and further children.

It's a gamble as is any life changing decision, but just because someone says it wont work that doesn't necessarily mean its true.

It'll come down to standing there tomorrow night with my slip in hand before I finally make my mind up.

[Grrrmachine]

Scotland will become an economic pariah; a desolate backwater at the arse end of Europe that no business wants to do business with, because a large empty land of just 5million people just isnt worth investing in. Who gives a Fuck about national identity and the political failings of your parents generation, when there's no food on your plate and no offers at the Job Center?

Throwing away your future, and your kids' futures, just to wave your own flag around is the height of stupidity.

[Rtaylor2208]

Well its done, finally made my mind up and submitted my vote. It a yes from me. It's a decision that that supports my beliefs in this country, but its a personal choice, of course there is lazy people in Scotland that will vote yes, that wont necessarily embrace the opportunity, but that is no different to any nation worldwide. That itself is human nature, and a disagree that the lazy are the majority.

There are several countries worldwide that have a small population like Scotland and less natural resources that are successful. If we are such a drain on the resources of the UK why is the UK better together with us involved? Surely if that was the case we would have been ushered out the door rather than the attempts at convincing the Scottish people to stay?

I have to laugh at the comments I see here and other forums that the Scottish people are bitter towards the people of the rest of the UK. While that may be the case for a very small minority of the Scottish people, their resentment is with the Government and not the people as I have already stated.

We are not choosing to leave the rest of the UK because of some fantasy that every Scottish person hates the English, we are choosing whether we should be a self governing country capable of electing a parliament that only has Scottish interests at heart.

You can call it patriotic, optimistic even delusional, but if you don't vote for what you believe in, why bother voting at all.

[Gert_8]

There are several countries worldwide that have a small population like Scotland and less natural resources that are successful. If we are such a drain on the resources of the UK why is the UK better together with us involved? Surely if that was the case we would have been ushered out the door rather than the attempts at convincing the Scottish people to stay?

These smaller countries are successful due to the way they have been governed, coupled with the support, drive and mentality of its people.

I don't know whether Scotland will be governed any better than it is now, the difference being it will be someone Scottish, which seems to be the important factor.

As for the people, 4.2m may be able to make it work. However, scotland's people do have a reputation for being militant, which could be the force that pushes things to a yes vote today, and also one of being a touch lazy, and unhealthy (no offence).

I would be very interested to learn what the proportional NHS spend is in Scotland, compared with the rest of Britain. It may provide an insight on the health of the Scottish nation and the drain you mention.

I don't believe it's ever been a case of ushering you out of the door, as the vision has always been one of a United Kingdom, until now of course.

[Rtaylor2208]

These smaller countries are successful due to the way they have been governed, coupled with the support, drive and mentality of its people.

And Scotland is different for what reason? New Zealand has a similar sized population to landmass percentage and doesn't appear to be the financial back water as being suggested, nor does it have oil.

I don't know whether Scotland will be governed any better than it is now, the difference being it will be someone Scottish, which seems to be the important factor.

Neither does Scotland, but if its poorly governed it will be down to the mistakes of the MP's elelected by the scottish people, no one has a crystal ball.

I would be very interested to learn what the proportional NHS spend is in Scotland, compared with the rest of Britain. It may provide an insight on the health of the Scottish nation and the drain you mention.

The published figures by the Scottish government on budgetary spend would suggest that spending was 7.3% on the NHS in the years 2011-2012 and the rUK spend was 7.9%. That may suggest we are not as unhealthy as we seem. Or it could be down to shorter life expectancy meaning less long term treatment. Honestly it could be for many reasons I am unaware of. I would not claim to be an expert on the matter.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/resource/0041/00418420.pdf

[Rtaylor2208]

Fine with me, at least you'll be better off with your 3% saving on corporation tax.

[Gert_8]

New Zealand is a much nicer place that attacts people wanting to live there - I don't think Scotland has the same appeal. As for their economy, it's okay, but salaries are lower and the cost of living isn't cheap. Once again tolerated by the fact that it's a nice place to live. Crime is very low. Employment is only just sufficient for its population. Other than it's physical size, I don't think there is any other comparison to be made.

The NHS spending in Scotland must be okay, which is why Salmond feels able to cut it.

* Edit, NZ economy has benefitted by trade to Auz, and the far east (booming economies). Scotland has the prospect of Europe.

[Rtaylor2208]

You do realize there is no actual cut in terms of the budget assigned to the NHS in scotland? The budget is actually increasing in terms of actual ££££. Its only when looked at when in comparison to an estimated rate of inflation that it can be seen as a cut.

Fortunately I have done my homework on this one:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parli ... 70874.aspx

The 2013 - 2014 budget is 9,124.8 (£m)
Draft 2014 - 2015 budget 9,392.0 (£m)
Planned 2015 - 2016 Budget 9,619.6 (£m)

Change 2013-14 to 2014-15 in £m = 267.2
Change 2013-14 to 2014-15 % = 2.9

Now to my eyes can you see any reduction in the amount being allocated?

EDIT* On the new zealand front their economoy is not actually doing as well as scotlands:

The report compares the GDP (wealth in the economy) on a per head basis with other countries, stating:

Scotland GDP p/capita = $47,369
Germany GDP p/capita = $43,855
UK GDP p/capita = $41,066
New Zealand GDP p/capita =$39,840

All of those nations have an AAA credit rating from at least one of the three big credit rating agencies and Moody’s rates New Zealand higher than it does the UK.

Soure here: http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/in ... ard-poors/

yes its journalism and holds as much weight as any journalistic publication so will be inheritantly biased. But the figures speaks volumes.

[Gert_8]

interesting: Institute for Fiscal studies.

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7366

[Rtaylor2208]

Agreed the figures from the IFS suggest a drop, but that is for the whole health care budget and not just the NHS which is what we have been discussing.

The health budget incorporates other health services as well which hare not part of the NHS such as social work, community care etc.

I am sure if I looked hard enough at the budget projections for the rest of the UK I could portray figures in a negative light as well.

[Gert_8]

As the article states, Scotland has been responsible for its NHS spend for some time. It choses to divert the funds. However, your mind has been made up and you have voted. There's not much point in discussing things, so we just need to wait to see what happens tomorrow morning.

It's been very interesting.

[Rtaylor2208]

Agreed, as I mentioned before its a personal choice, and not one I made likely. There is no harm in a healthy discussion and I hope that many others eligible to vote actually took their time to research the facts before making their decision.

Now the waiting begins. Either way it has changed the political landscape in Scotland which hopefully can only be a good thing from now on.

[pacerpete]

As the article states, Scotland has been responsible for its NHS spend for some time. It choses to divert the funds. However, your mind has been made up and you have voted. There's not much point in discussing things, so we just need to wait to see what happens tomorrow morning.

It's been very interesting.

Gert , what way is Euan voting ? Is he old enough to vote ?

[Gert_8]

As the article states, Scotland has been responsible for its NHS spend for some time. It choses to divert the funds. However, your mind has been made up and you have voted. There's not much point in discussing things, so we just need to wait to see what happens tomorrow morning.

It's been very interesting.

Gert , what way is Euan voting ? Is he old enough to vote ?

He can't vote today, Pete, he's a little...erm, *cough* tied up.

[Gert_8]

Gert , what way is Euan voting ? Is he old enough to vote ?

He can't vote today, Pete, he's a little...erm, *cough* tied up.

He's voting whichever way Gert tells him to vote Pete........

Something "stuck" in your throat Gert?

Don't get excited, Di, only a werthers you'd left in verd's shorts..

[pacerpete]

He can't vote today, Pete, he's a little...erm, *cough* tied up.

He's voting whichever way Gert tells him to vote Pete........

Something "stuck" in your throat Gert?

Don't get excited, Di, only a werthers you'd left in verd's shorts..

There is a joke there but I won't

[bab-91]

O Jesus!


I'm so sick of these comparisons. Scotland will be like Norway, that was ridiculed. O... OK then, Scotland will be like New Zealand or Singapore.

Well I might be pointing out the obvious here...


New Zealand, Australia and Singapore benefit because THEY ARE IN THE ECONOMIC AREA OF CHINA AND INDIA!

Having two of the worlds biggest economies next door, funny enough, has an effect!


Britain is a small rock just off mainland Europe. An independent Scotland will be a tiny rock joined to a rock of Europe.

I can hear the investments lining up....


Lets make the comparison that the Yes Campaign doesn't want to make...


Scotland will be the Republic of Ireland. It was an economic wasteland for the best part of a century, with its biggest export being people! It only got true independence from Britain in 1973, then it joined the EU which now dictates its economic policy.

Vote yes by all means, but please stop making these bullshit comparisons!

(I'd like you to stay tho )

[Rtaylor2208]

Do you honestly believe that Scotland, in fact the entire UK only trades within itself and Europe? Or is it only England, Wales and NI that trade outside the EU?

We live in an age of the global economy so why is it ridiculous to compare Scotland to other counties of similar size, populate and output? Scotland and the UK already exports to countries all around the world, so why would independence make that an automatic barrier for trade?

My current employer (American) invested in Scotland as a base for its operations in the western hemisphere and has already confirmed that either way they have no intention to stop operating in Scotland. Globally we employ 5600 members of staff and trade in 57 countries. An independence vote will not change this, and the same can be said for many companies that already invest in Scotland.

Not that I am keen on the promotion of oil being the savior of the Scottish economy, but if the oil companies will invest in oil extraction in some of the most hostile countries ravaged by civil war, are they go to say fuck it, were not going near Scotland you know they went independent from the rest of the UK.

I've said it before and and I'll say it again, companies invest where there is profit to be made.

I'm no economist and I don't claim to be one, but I have thoroughly researched this decision. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but at least I haven't just bought into whatever the daily rags or the BBC have been reporting as my only source of information.

[bab-91]

Do you honestly believe that Scotland, in fact the entire UK only trades within itself and Europe? Or is it only England, Wales and NI that trade outside the EU?

Your arguing against a point I didn't make.

We live in an age of the global economy so why is it ridiculous to compare Scotland to other counties of similar size, populate and output?

Summarised really quickly... Geography.



Put into simple terms. The rest of the UK is and will remain Scotland's biggest trading partner, the same way that the UK is still Ireland's biggest trading partner.

Scotland 2012
International Exports - £26.0 billion (excluding oil and gas)
Rest of UK Exports: £47.6 billion (excluding oil and gas)

[Rtaylor2208]

Your also assuming that the rest of the UK just won't require the exports of Scotland. It's Supply and Demand. If there was not already any existing demand then why would they need anything from Scotland at all?

Will it really be cheaper to import from outside the same connected land mass regardless of what currency is in place, than it would be from another country. That's not something anyone can actually answer until the dust has settled and in the case of a yes vote negotiations begin.

Its purely speculation, that for me is not a good enough reason to reject independence.

[bab-91]

I never assumed that.

If I had a point, it would be, Scotland is part of a Union with its existing biggest trade partners, independence will put pressure on that, that is not speculatory, you only have to look at how the markets reacted to the polls.

If the Yes Campaigns comparisons stacked up, Slovakia and Belarus would be economically well off.

But your right, a lot of this is speculatory, you could talk all day about the potential for job loss from Faslane or the companies that said they would leave in the event of a Yes vote or the fact that Germany or Spain is likely to block Scottish membership into the EU.

It's a big gamble for Scotland and the Union! Scotland has historically been the most liberal part of the Union and that above all is what Unionists should fear losing.

I hope its a no vote because the rest of Union risks losing much form a Yes vote.

[nickso]

Scotland had the highest murder rate in the UK as well as the highest death rate from lung cancer, I will be opening up a cigarette and knife shop in the Highlands when I get my new business grant from the SNP

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/433651 ... ent-deaths

I think you will find Glaswegian shitholes are responsible for nearly all of these murders and are dragging the rest of us down with bad statistics.

Glasgow also has the lowest life expectancy and is also dragging us down.

[beemerbird]

Scotland had the highest murder rate in the UK as well as the highest death rate from lung cancer, I will be opening up a cigarette and knife shop in the Highlands when I get my new business grant from the SNP

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/433651 ... ent-deaths

I think you will find Glaswegian shitholes are responsible for nearly all of these murders and are dragging the rest of us down with bad statistics.

Glasgow also has the lowest life expectancy and is also dragging us down.

I think speaking with that incomprehensible accent has a lot to answer for

[beemerbird]

It will be interesting to see if the Zone is representative of the vote. A definite bias towards Scotland staying part of the union.........

[Rtaylor2208]

I suspect fi, that is not that representative, as just going on conversations with friends and family, work mates, bookies odds and the usual daily polls is pretty much 50 / 50.

I think in the end, either way it goes will be within a few percent.

[beemerbird]

I suspect you're right. Personally I hope that Scotland doesn't vote to leave the union, or at the least devolution is a success for you all if you do.

[nickso]

Scotland had the highest murder rate in the UK as well as the highest death rate from lung cancer, I will be opening up a cigarette and knife shop in the Highlands when I get my new business grant from the SNP

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/433651 ... ent-deaths

I think you will find Glaswegian shitholes are responsible for nearly all of these murders and are dragging the rest of us down with bad statistics.

Glasgow also has the lowest life expectancy and is also dragging us down.

I think speaking with that incomprehensible accent has a lot to answer for

Yes the Glaswegian accent is terrible.

[Gert_8]

They all sound like they are looking for a fight, so it's understandable.

[steve_k]

Now I could be talking out my arse (nothing new there) but there seems to be one issue noone has addressed what from I've seen,

& that is, what about both the scots living in england & the english living north of the border?? Surely there would be some sort of work permit to be issued?? & what about border controls??

Just a thought.

[Gert_8]

Anyone know what's happening about the Scottish soldiers serving in the army?