Fitting an S50B32, first steps...

[jaistanley]

I have just won the bid on a nice sounding S50B32 from an M Roadster.

Going to go and hear it running on sat morning and discuss the bits I shall be after. From the Z3, what exactly shall I get? I'll also be buying the gearbox prop and diff aswell as all the required keys,electrics and loom. Anything else?

Will the rad fit and the equivalent plumbing etc? Again, will the diff and prop bolt straight in? I know the e30 and z3 are very similar but am I hoping too much?

Another one, perhaps for the tech forum, is do the rear disks/calipers bolt onto my e30 M3 rear hubs? I'm going to need to upgrade the 280mm's I already have! Thinking e34 540i fronts or bigger and an e32 7 series 25mm master cylinder.

After searching I can't seem to find much about this swap. I couldn't seem to find the thread about M50 developments and generally been useless at finding stuff.

Can anyone help me out here? I need to know exactly what parts I need, where from, and what I need to do. Not much then!

Any help you can offer is very much appreciated. I can't wait to get this thing on the road but first I have to amass a load of knowledge and bits and bobs. Plan is to do the swap in as little time as possible, but with as much preparation as possible to ensure it goes smoothely.

Don't want much eh??

Many thanks...
Jai

[stevetigger]

Are you getting the full car??

[Andy325i]

Good Buy!!!!!

You need to talk to Ian

What he doesn't know about swapping S50's into E30's you could write on the head of a pin

Here is the M50 Developments Thread.


Andy

[Turbo-Brown]

Don't you need a sump with the lumps in a different place or something like that?

[jmc330i]

Don't you need a sump with the lumps in a different place or something like that?

Yup, E34 M50 sump and oil pick up pipe is needed to clear the E30 sub frame/cross member.

I think the 3.2 dual pick-up oil pump also needs changing for the 3.0ltr pump to fit with the M50 sump - Ian will know for sure.

[jaistanley]

Picked the car up at the weekend.. It's totally mashed. Luckily the impact was at the rear.

Have everything needed wiring wise. Unbeleivably it starts fine but thats all, theres a hole in the oil cooler and no radiator!

They sound amazing don't they? Rev so quickly and cleanly. I can't wait.

Got to really start thinking about what I need to buy and the wiring side of things.

Jai

[stevetigger]

Picked the car up at the weekend.. It's totally mashed. Luckily the impact was at the rear.

Have everything needed wiring wise. Unbeleivably it starts fine but thats all, theres a hole in the oil cooler and no radiator!

They sound amazing don't they? Rev so quickly and cleanly. I can't wait.

Got to really start thinking about what I need to buy and the wiring side of things.

Jai

How much for a mashed Z3mCoupe??

[Brianmoooore]

Don't want to worry you unneccessarily, but rear ended BMs can suffer damage to the gearbox that may not be immediately obvious.

[jaistanley]

I cant check the gearbox just yet... It's just too cold to get out there and start fiddling with bits of pointy metal! For what it's worth it shifts OK and looking underneath it looks as though the prop didn't suffer, the impact was to one side of the rear.

The mashed car was 2600, 400 more than I paid for the engine (but I bid knowing this). Not too bad a price because I can sell some of the bits off if I don't use them. Someone's bound to want the front running gear for their Compact/Z3 or e30 5 stud/big brake conversion.

That said I want to keep as much of it as possible for my conversion to save money. Hopefully choosing the M roadster means some of the bits will bolt in (such as the prop and diff, rear brakes (though this looks unlikely unlsess I can get another swingarm))

Ho hum.. descisions descisions.

Jai

[conrod]

Doing this conversion myself at the moment, although I bought an E36 M3 Evo for a donor car. Also lucky enough to get most of the rear suspension of an M Coupe. Use the M Coupe/rooadster trailing arms, they allow fitting of the larger MZ3 rear brakes (caliper bolt spacing is different to E30) and is also larger around outer CV joint, as MZ3 uses larger inner/outer CV joints than normal E30.Also are braced nicely from factory.Direct fit into your existing rear beam. I will also be using the E36 front suspension (same as MZ3) This will allow using the bigger brakes/5 stud arrangement,bolt straight on at the bottom, just need to sort top strut mounting, as strut towers are further apart on E30 than E36 or MZ3.

[jaistanley]

I'm a little closer too...

I've just bought M Coupé trailing arms and driveshafts to replace the damaged ones from the Roadster.. This means I'll be fitting the Diff, trailing arms, brakes and have the wheel offset of an E36 (makes wheel choice cheaper).

On the front I'm going to use the E30 M3 struts I have at the moment. The Roadster calipers will bolt on (so I'm told) but the disks need a spacer/adapter behind them. This also changes the required wheel offset to that of an E36. Just means I'll need longer studs on the front wheels (and I need to get hold of some of these spacer majjiggies).

This seemed the best way to get reasonable sized brakes as I have nearly all the bits. I paid a lot for the trailing arms but I couldn't have improved the M3 ones that much for the outlay. Plus I now have beefier wheels bearings, arms, handbrake and driveshafts into the bargain.

I still need a diff output flange. I beleive E28 or E36 ones will fit the driveshafts. Is this correct? Getting hold of a replacement M coupé could be tricky... I remember meaning to pick it up whilst at the place I got the wreck. Damn!

I'll keep you posted on how its going...

Jai

PS: Anyone if the M3 front struts/abs sensors work on the M Roadster abs system I have? I'd like to fit it if it's possible. Modern M Coupé abs could be worth having.

[conrod]

I think you will find the M Coupe rear end will be the same width (track) as a regular E30, the M Coupe/ Roadster used different offset wheels front and rear. Meaning you may need spacers on the rear as well to bring it out to the same width as the front, (or use different offset) wheels. Not 100% sure, as I haven't measured it yet, but that is what it looks like at a glance.I too am looking for another diff output flange, not the same as any E36 ones, maybe an E28, as they used the larger CV joint. Probably just end up buying a new one. Have a look on S14.net, someone details the brake conversion using 850 calipers and E36 M3 rotors with spacers, I believe it is exactly the same using the E36 M3 caliper. Not sure about the ABS system, I am ditching all of this and the brakes, and fitting a floor mount pedal box, and AP brakes all round, as I am using the car for circuit racing and tarmac rallies. One thing I have found, is that there are several people out there who have done this conversion, who are most happy to help with any questions or technical information (including on this website- thanks guys!) which is kind of nice to know that not everyone is a hard nosed bastard that wants to blow the world up- some of us get more enjoyment working on our cars!

[Brianmoooore]

On the ABS bit - For it to stand a chance of working, the number of teeth on the "gears" that generate the ABS signal will have the same number of teeth front and rear

[conrod]

Just realised the auction you won was on my watchlist- "Twigworth breakers" - that was a good deal! There is an S62 about to expire soon, no bids at 2995 pounds C/W 6 speed and all the bits required, sounds good to me.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... %3AIT&rd=1

[Jon_Bmw]

Just realised the auction you won was on my watchlist- "Twigworth breakers" - that was a good deal! There is an S62 about to expire soon, no bids at 2995 pounds C/W 6 speed and all the bits required, sounds good to me.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... %3AIT&rd=1

Someone just got lucky I think, won it for Ԛ£2995, wonder what car that'll be going in. The inlet pleneum(spel?) looked like it had been wacked on the top though.

[conrod]

Just did some trial fitting today of suspension parts. You were right Jai, the Roadster trailing arms are wider in track than the standard E30 items, as near as I can tell it is between 22-25mm wider per side, so E36 offset wheels are probably correct for these. The E36 M3 front strut needs the offset lower castor bush, to centre the wheel in the wheel arch, and the top strut mount needs to be moved inward, the strut towers on an E30 are further rearward and further apart (in relation to the bottom ball joint)than an E36, so the top mount needs moving to get the camber and castor correct.

[jaistanley]

Coonrod: Use the longer Evo wishbones too, they'll help return the wheel to its natural position. You could also try the Evo top mounts (e36) They are cantered RIGHT back to add castor. I don't know if they fit the e30 though.

Theres a bit of info on the s14.net and rv3limited forums about this, Jordan the moderatorof Rv3 has some strong oppinions.

I think a much better option is to sell the e36 struts and get hold of some E30 M3 ones.. The geometry is better without having to mess around.

You would need spacers/adapters behind the disk. I need these as I'm using the E30M3 struts on my car. Have to find out where I can get them from. At least that way I'll require the E36 front and rear and not have to get some sort of Offset combo front and rear (cheaper).

Think I'm going to take the oppertunity to blast, paint and replace the sliders and seals on my calipers and paint the non contact parts of the new disks. I did this on the M3 front stuff I have at the moment and it still looks fresh and new under there. The 2-pack heat proof brush on stuff is what I used, bit expensive though but goes a long way (I did all my new wishbones, track rod ends and arb droplinks too-I'm sad).

Jai

[conrod]

Yes I have had a bit of a "discussion" on R3V with Jordan- what a homo! Thinks his way is the only way.... anyway, the E30 strut towers are further back than the E36 ones, but the E36 M3 struts can be made to work, with correct geometry, you just need to play around a bit with the top strut mount, to get the desired camber/castor. I think this is a better setup as the scrub radius is improved over the E30 M3, and as I am making my own front strut tubes (threaded platforms) it will be easier being 2 piece. I will be making adjustable top mounts, and probably fabricating a TCA and castor rod to replace the standard bottom arm, as I will be using my car mostly for racing. In comparison the rear end is dead easy, and I will only have to modify it to get adjustability in the camber/toe dept. Just get the spacers made for your front discs, they will be dead easy, although you will need longer wheel bolts- always amazes me that, BMW has great engineering on their cars, but always persist with those f%$%@n wheel bolts! Needless to say, I will be fitting proper studs into my hubs......

[jaistanley]

Sounds like it'll be a nice bit of kit!

Was thinking about fitting threaded spring seats myself. \gotta find out if the 'coilover kits' you get for escorts etc are the right diameter.

Not mega important right now, Need to get the std M Roadster brakes on it all round and fit the Billie Sport front dampers. Just putting off the engine swap! Plus also I'll be using this car as an everyday driver so want to keep custom parts down a bit (when servicing comes up in the middle of winter I want to be able to replace things with off the shelf parts!)

Been looking at the s14 thread about fitting 840i front brembo's and 324mm 2 piece E46 M3 disks. Looks like they'll bolt straight on with the same disks spacers I'll need anyway! Awesome upgrade option (though I'd probably need wheels that give clearance and dont have the wide wings of an M3).

One question.. Will E46 M3 rear 328mm disks bolt up to my M Roadster/Coupé trailing arms? I understand I have the large handbrake mechanism of the later M cars already... Hmmmm ideas ideas. Could fit the entire braking system from an E46 (if I can get a master cylinder setup to match)

For this conversion (engine), how have people got around the servo clearance problem? I'm considering getting a bias bar pedal box but am concerned about A: Lack of servo for everyday driving B: The fitting of the thing C: The stste of my finances! Anyone have any oppinions on this?

I think worrying about upgrading the brakes past the roadster spec is getting a bit excessive! Should start on sourcing more bits for the conversion.

Need an E36 Oil pick up pipe if anyone has one? And an M3 3.0 (e36) radiator.

Jai

[conrod]

The coilover kits for Escorts should work, I have fitted several of these "universal" kits to E30's, the ones I use needed about 1mm boring out of them to fit over the E30 strut tubes, then welding on- dead easy though. I think the 850 brembo has the same offset as the M roadster caliper, double check the dimensions on S14.net, but I think those spacers will work.The rear discs on the Roadster are already 312mm diameter- I don't think you need to go any larger- especially not on a road car! The rears on the Group A M3 car were only 304mm! And the front barkes, although only a sliding caliper, work really well.You will need a larger wheel for barke clearance- "race" type 16'' wheel (Compomotive, BBS, Speedline) or 17's. I see a lot of people have used brake servos from other cars for clearance, Volkswagon Golf, Porsche 924, even a hydraulic on from an E23, and I am sure all of these would work. A bias pedal box works fine even without servo assist, but cylinder sizing is very important (although easy to change if you get it wrong) This is what I will be using. The E36 M3 radiator that came with my car drops straight on the 318i rad mounts, and the top mount fits too, BMW have made this too easy!