How easy and fast is a 340i?

Post Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:20 pm

I have been researching recently with the e30 nearing completion, where to go next year once its been run for a while.

I have gotten used to driving e9x m3s and m135s and the like and enjoy the power and especially noise of the V8.

I have decided Id quite like to source an m60 for it at some point and was wondering what a 340i is like to drive. I dont imagine the handling to be amasing but how quick are they? 6 seconds?

And from what I have read it seems like a relatively simple swap bar relocating the brake servo/pedal box and sorting out an X5 manifold for it

Post Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:40 pm

Handling is fine really it is, power is good, depending on the car is set up and what diff.
Certainly not as progressive as a m3 but (mine does) keep side by side with an e39 m5

If your ever south come and drive mine

Post Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:40 pm

Light flywheel will transform the way it revs too

Post Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:47 am

its "only" going to be as fast as a S50 when you are pushing it, for this reason id consider if the extra hassle was worth it when other swaps are available and likely simpler....

Post Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:48 pm

and you can have a glovebox AND brakes! whoop

S38 conversion is faster and just as unruly to drive

Post Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:59 pm

No offence Euan but given your "moments" in the e92, maybe leave the m20 in the e30 for now? 170 hp is enough to get you in some serious bother and e30's are a lot more tail happy than an e92

Post Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:47 pm

Simon13 wrote:and you can have a glovebox AND brakes! whoop

S38 conversion is faster and just as unruly to drive

S38 in an E30 is AWSOME........

the M6x will pull better in low revs,,

but i had B38 and the same pull as M60B40 and 50+ more ponies

fantastic engine IMO

Post Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:21 am

ross_jsy wrote:No offence Euan but given your "moments" in the e92, maybe leave the m20 in the e30 for now? 170 hp is enough to get you in some serious bother and e30's are a lot more tail happy than an e92

I drive quick cars all day at work, the only moments iv had in the e92 are because iv driven home too quickly after 5 hours sleep, no lunch and a 15 hour day.

I would have thought putting an S engine in would be much harder due to wiring etc. Plus wouldnt it be expensive to service

Post Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:24 am

Phill172 wrote:Handling is fine really it is, power is good, depending on the car is set up and what diff.
Certainly not as progressive as a m3 but (mine does) keep side by side with an e39 m5

If your ever south come and drive mine

I will bear it in mine, being a passenger would be plenty for me!

It does sound bloody fast!

Post Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:28 pm

New 35's and M3s have significantly better rear suspension, a damn sight more rubber on the road and lots of electronics to flatter the driver. An m60 or s50 e30 has none of that, a much shorter wheel base ant less favorable weight distribution.

Seriously don't underestimate how lairy a high powered e30 is, the s50 compact I muck about with will happily to 100mph burnouts. Runway expansion joints in the dry were causing wheel spin and steering correction at 120mph.

Post Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:32 pm

I would stick an m52 in it Euan. 210ish hp with an m50 manifold (probably more with a map) is plenty in an e30 chassis. Plus you like superchargers, in a year or so when you are used to it a charger can be grafted on and even more fun to be had

Post Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:49 pm

Euan you may drive fast cars at work, and so do I but I never push a car that's not mine.

And as said modern cars are built for the power.

An E30 with and M20 can be a handful in the wrong hands.

Post Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:56 pm

HairyScreech wrote:New 35's and M3s have significantly better rear suspension, a damn sight more rubber on the road and lots of electronics to flatter the driver. An m60 or s50 e30 has none of that, a much shorter wheel base ant less favorable weight distribution.

Seriously don't underestimate how lairy a high powered e30 is, the s50 compact I muck about with will happily to 100mph burnouts. Runway expansion joints in the dry were causing wheel spin and steering correction at 120mph.

Haha holy shit. That is a bit outrageous man. If I did M60 it I would be sourcing 10J sport pilots for the rear. It wont really get driven much anyway with the work thats been done and I doubt it would ever be driven in anger or situations to cause 120mph squirms etc but still. I shall keep it in mind

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:28 am

The s50s e30s I have driven you could give your grandma the keys to drive, as the powers so good through the revs you have to be pushing or atleast provoking to have issues
The v 8 will spin in 4th, in the wet it'll bounce off the limiter all the way (but so will an e39 m5 with tcs off) and easily spin up in the dry and that's with 245s

Your controlling the throttle though so just drive to your ability rather then limit what you drive

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:06 am

verde wrote:
HairyScreech wrote:New 35's and M3s have significantly better rear suspension, a damn sight more rubber on the road and lots of electronics to flatter the driver. An m60 or s50 e30 has none of that, a much shorter wheel base ant less favorable weight distribution.

Seriously don't underestimate how lairy a high powered e30 is, the s50 compact I muck about with will happily to 100mph burnouts. Runway expansion joints in the dry were causing wheel spin and steering correction at 120mph.
Haha holy shit. That is a bit outrageous man. If I did M60 it I would be sourcing 10J sport pilots for the rear. It wont really get driven much anyway with the work thats been done and I doubt it would ever be driven in anger or situations to cause 120mph squirms etc but still. I shall keep it in mind

Ok, granted the car is very light on the rear, seems to have a bit of high speed lift (read awful), we had too much chassis rake taking more weight off the rear, the road tyres were struggling with the heat and the throttle was wide open but yeah, point still stands.
A road trimmed car with longer gearing will be much milder

The trouble with high powered basic RWD cars on the road is we have such shitty inconsistent road surfaces keeping them on the road is less about driving the car and more about reading the road and anticipating the way it will effect the car.

The electronics on the new bmws does a fantastic job of doing this for you, my boss runs a v8 m3 and he freely admits he turned the traction control off completely once and its been back on ever since.

That's not to say don't do it, but certainly don't underestimate it.
The title should probably be "how can I make the rear end if an e30 cope with an M60?"

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:26 am

HairyScreech wrote:The electronics on the new bmws does a fantastic job of doing this for you, my boss runs a v8 m3 and he freely admits he turned the traction control off completely once and its been back on ever since.

Interesting you say that as most of the time the DSC is switched off in my daily E46 M3 as the inconsistent road surfaces are a pain which can often cause my car to bog at a point where you least want it to.

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:59 am

-I think the old verde would have kicked off and said why are you all putting me off and Il do what I want etc. But the older and wiser me is quite happy people are taking time to show concern and Im taking it all on board and definatly thinking there is a bit more to it than just putting a V8 in and setting off.

The uneven road surfaces cause problems in the e92 with m sport suspension and runflats ( you can feel the car wanted to break out or squirm if you hit bumps/a hole ) so the e30 with a v8 could potential get messy. Il need to look into a good suspension set up including roll bars and braces as well as bigger brakes and wider rear rubber.

The bit that puts me off doing an S swap is the expense and the wiring. The V8 i think would suit the character of the car im aiming at plus be much cheaper.

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:13 am

Euan, my M52'd chromie was doing 5.6 to 60 and was quick enough as a road car with the limited handling capabilities an E30 has.

They are fun and brisk chariots and good to hang the back end out on when you want to, but when they bite you at a moment you were not expecting or anticipating, an E30 is not the best place to be when you are looking out of the side window at what you are about to hit

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:23 am

No they certainly are not...iv seen the side impact tests and theyr pretty harrowing!

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:27 pm

bss325i wrote:
HairyScreech wrote:The electronics on the new bmws does a fantastic job of doing this for you, my boss runs a v8 m3 and he freely admits he turned the traction control off completely once and its been back on ever since.
Interesting you say that as most of the time the DSC is switched off in my daily E46 M3 as the inconsistent road surfaces are a pain which can often cause my car to bog at a point where you least want it to.

Basing that on the couple of e92 m3s I have had a play with Vs any high powered e30/e36 compact. The E46 is not something I have ever had much interest in. [Edit - actually that's probably it doing what its "intended" to do, the options are cut power or spin the wheel.]

Although I would say you have a lot more feel for the car than most, as do most people on here or we wouldn't have interest in the e30.
Having never driven an e46 m3 I wouldn't like to comment, but I bet the target market for a new m3 wouldn't notice that.

Any one like to comment Re the Z3M?
After all that's kind of a modern hybrid of the e30 and an e36m3. Not touched one myself but have heard they can be snappy.

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:29 pm

verde wrote:No they certainly are not...iv seen the side impact tests and theyr pretty harrowing!

Have a look at lees touring thread for a good example!

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:38 pm

Well I hope you continue down this path as I have always wanted a V8 E30.

Its currently my "long term" project .... however just bought a vert which is my summer project / daily (when it's on the road) needs a little work.

Need to add pics, it's a bit rough round edges but I love it.

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:45 pm

HairyScreech wrote:Any one like to comment Re the Z3M?
After all that's kind of a modern hybrid of the e30 and an e36m3. Not touched one myself but have heard they can be snappy.

Think of an S50 E30 with a quick rack, wider tyres and a lower centre of gravity.

The S54 powered Z3M's had DSC where as the S50 ones did not.

Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:48 pm

verde wrote:The bit that puts me off doing an S swap is the expense and the wiring. The V8 i think would suit the character of the car im aiming at plus be much cheaper.

The wiring is much of a muchness with regards to M6x vs S5x and there is no f ucking about replacing/relocating brake servos with S5x.

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:01 am

Gok wrote:Well I hope you continue down this path as I have always wanted a V8 E30.

Its currently my "long term" project .... however just bought a vert which is my summer project / daily (when it's on the road) needs a little work.

Need to add pics, it's a bit rough round edges but I love it.

I shall do later in the year I think.

Iv just spent my weeks food and diesel budget on brown paint for it. Finally time to get it back on the road

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:52 am

bss325i wrote:
verde wrote:The bit that puts me off doing an S swap is the expense and the wiring. The V8 i think would suit the character of the car im aiming at plus be much cheaper.
The wiring is much of a muchness with regards to M6x vs S5x and there is no f ucking about replacing/relocating brake servos with S5x.

I thought there was, chap who had the calypso red with gold bbs had to move the servo over (even with a smaller servo) as it fouled the inlet

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:25 am

Phill172 wrote:
bss325i wrote:
verde wrote:The bit that puts me off doing an S swap is the expense and the wiring. The V8 i think would suit the character of the car im aiming at plus be much cheaper.
The wiring is much of a muchness with regards to M6x vs S5x and there is no f ucking about replacing/relocating brake servos with S5x.
I thought there was, chap who had the calypso red with gold bbs had to move the servo over (even with a smaller servo) as it fouled the inlet

For the S50, you can use a smaller servo and not move it, but you will need to chop the lower back corner from the inlet plenum. This is how I did mine before the idea of moving the servo over came about.
If I was to do it again, I'd move the (smaller) servo over and keep the plenum intact.

As Barry said, the wiring will need doing whichever engine you choose. Wiring an S50 is no more difficult than an M52 and I don't think an M60 will be much different.

Both engines will need manifolds making/buying, plus an exhaust to suit. The S50 is expensive to buy, but the prices of V8 manual boxes aren't exactly cheap!
For me, it's only the brake servo placement that puts me off the V8.

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:09 am

If you dont mind losing the glovebox space, the servo work on the e30 is pretty damn easy. The linkage mech is already there for it. The manifolds were the hardest thing on my conversion, i still hate my bodged/chopped up ones they sap power. Atleast you can buy bolt on ones from adem @ ergen

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:34 am

I waaaant a V8! The manifolds are what's putting me off. I'll be anchoring for the time being with a high compression M30B34

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:39 am

I'm sure someone on here was supplying manifolds for the v8's. Ergen maybe?

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:48 am

Yep it was ergen, i want a set!!!!!

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:45 pm

Phill172 wrote:If you dont mind losing the glovebox space, the servo work on the e30 is pretty damn easy. The linkage mech is already there for it. The manifolds were the hardest thing on my conversion, i still hate my bodged/chopped up ones they sap power. Atleast you can buy bolt on ones from adem @ ergen

I thought you just use X5 ones?

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:16 pm

verde wrote:
Phill172 wrote:If you dont mind losing the glovebox space, the servo work on the e30 is pretty damn easy. The linkage mech is already there for it. The manifolds were the hardest thing on my conversion, i still hate my bodged/chopped up ones they sap power. Atleast you can buy bolt on ones from adem @ ergen
I thought you just use X5 ones?

If only it was that easy

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:39 pm

Phill172 wrote:
bss325i wrote:
verde wrote:The bit that puts me off doing an S swap is the expense and the wiring. The V8 i think would suit the character of the car im aiming at plus be much cheaper.
The wiring is much of a muchness with regards to M6x vs S5x and there is no f ucking about replacing/relocating brake servos with S5x.
I thought there was, chap who had the calypso red with gold bbs had to move the servo over (even with a smaller servo) as it fouled the inlet

Well have to move it over to the left by 44mm but it's no where near the same agro as mounting the servo in the glove box or replacing it all with a hydro booster system from an E32.

Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:42 pm

jmc330i wrote:
verde wrote:
Phill172 wrote:If you dont mind losing the glovebox space, the servo work on the e30 is pretty damn easy. The linkage mech is already there for it. The manifolds were the hardest thing on my conversion, i still hate my bodged/chopped up ones they sap power. Atleast you can buy bolt on ones from adem @ ergen
I thought you just use X5 ones?
If only it was that easy

Come the time there will no doubt be plenty questions popping up in the m60 section