Stalling / non starting issues when running - Brianmoore!

[Speedtouch]

Aftermarket leads, presumably?

[Brianmoooore]

they weren't all that old at 2-3 years

Put on a 20+ year old set and you will have no further lead related trouble.

[Brianmoooore]

Did the jump across the relay and the pump does run, but the relay is not switching... Ideas on a postcard please before i torch this POS

Ignition leads (or anything else ignition related) won't explain this!

[Silverfang]

Well, pleased to report the new leads, dizzy cap, rotor and plugs went in... and finally, damn finally the car is back to a lovely smooth idle, has decent power again and doesn't smell 'rich' as it has done for a while.

Got it right up on temp during today, and left it to idle for a good 10 mins, not a single miss or cough. Even starts right on the button now.

The old pump was a tad noisy, and though may not have needed to be replaced so soon but it's at least now a known quantity.

[Speedtouch]

Good to hear that, fella.

[Silverfang]

Or so i thought... the fault's back yet again!

Fault came back when pulling up a hill in 4th on the A2, and the car started to cough then die off, once over the hill it lost all power and pulled up on the hard shoulder. Hand on coil and it was hot.. so suspect the coil i'd changed was another bad one

I'm going to get a new coil (current one was second hand and hot when the car broke down...) AND a DME relay from BMW.

After that I really am at wit's end and the car may well get thrown on Ebay.

[Silverfang]

New coil's gone in.. and DME relay... but the car's still thrown the fault and now won't run more than a few minutes.

It'll then die off suddenly, or rev up bounce up and down on revs then die suddenly. The AA towed me home and sent out 2 techie's, though they tried to bypass the problem, the car's a real mess with it's wiring.

The old alarm system is spliced into all sorts, and there's also the ECU.... it's a 380 and if that's toast, I'm gonna need a replacement

[Silverfang]

Recap of what has happened and what's been replaced.

Car will die / loose power when running or idling, usually when very hot or been running a while then refuse to restart for a while.
Now has developed into a fault that have the car run for a few minutes, or just idle, and as soon as you start moving, it will completely stall out.
Also if it does start, the car will surge, or 'bounce' on rpm between 600-2000rpm then die off.

PArts replaced:
> AFM (second hand)
> ICV (second hand)
> CPS (second hand) Checked as well, in tolerance when hot.

New Parts
> Fuel Pump
> HT Leads
> Dizzy cap
> Rotor
> Plugs
> Coil

Alarm system seems to be faulty but doesn't explain why the car will idle..

Any thoughts would be helpful

[Speedtouch]

Check the engine-to-body earth strap is securely connected, and perhaps try swapping the 380 ECU for the more reliable 173 version.

If you can't find one, and of the later six-pot ECUs (172/173/179/380/381) will work, as they are all essentially the same - you just need to swap a 325i chip in.

[Silverfang]

I'll bear that in mind , thanks Speedtouch

The car's been carted off to a garage I know from work whom are pretty good with this, and it's suspected the old alarm system (It's got a sticker from 1989! ) is at fault as it's been very crudely... and i MEAN crudely fitted.

Hopefully should have it sorted soon just gonna cost me

[jonny323i]

Sometimes a fix by someone who knows better can save you a fortune compared to just trying lots of random parts

[Silverfang]

Ok, the car's been checked at the garage, the good news is the alarm is not causing the issue.

However, the ECU seems to be at fault and thusly i need a new one, either a 380 or more preferably a 173 one

I'll PM those who have offered, as this would need sending today as I'd need it after the weekend.

[Brianmoooore]

Looking at your summary of faults a few posts above, it does look like the idle faults are very possibly down to a 380 ECU developing its known fault, but I doubt if that would prevent the car from restarting (providing you open the throttle a little manually) or power loss when running.
Maybe you have two unrelated faults?

[Speedtouch]

I'll double check the TPS switch though just to be sure, but we'll see

And did you get around to checking the TPS?

[Silverfang]

I did clean it out some time ago, but haven't checked it honestly.
The garage has fed back and said that the ECU was getting rather hot and fueling was all over the place.

Until the replacement ECU's in, I'd rather wait to see if this resolves all issues first before looking into other areas.

[Speedtouch]

Well, the ECU certainly shouldn't be getting hot, and this suggests it is faulty.

[Silverfang]

New ECU is in, and it did run for 90 mins including a test drive, but then stalled out.
Fuel relays were replaced before this with brand new units and these were roasting hot... garage is going to perform a fuel pressure test and may swap the old pump back in as it could be a blockage / bad fuel pressure regulator.

We shall find out.

[Speedtouch]

Very strange. I thought there was just the one fuel pump relay?

You should test the voltage across the battery with the engine running; it should be around 14 Volts.

If the regulator in the alternator has packed up and is sending the charging voltage too high, this may explain it...

[Silverfang]

Well I've had the car back for this evening, and the fault is still present It's going back tomorrow to the garage as they requested i run it home and back to see if the fault reoccurred.

If the garage can't sort this, then I'm pondering tossing this on here as spares or repair and getting something else. Really had enough of this car now and need reliable transport.


This could be the end of my E30 days.

[Speedtouch]

And did you/the garage conduct a voltage test across the battery with the engine running?

[Silverfang]

I've just conducted one, and it's come back at 13.92 volts.
Given the Alternator is only around 12 months old and was a genuine lucas's unit I highly doubt it'd be at fault.

The garage did find a few fuel lines (rubber ones) that had ended up kinked, and rerouted them.
However given the pump's struggling at the moment, it's probably been fried after being under strain the whole time.

Looks like this could be expensive

[Speedtouch]

Aye, that's a healthy enough voltage reading.

Kinked fuel hoses certainly won't be helping. Another possibility is that old fuel hoses may be constricting under vacuum created by the fuel flow, creating a blockage - could be worth investing in new ones.

Also, when was the fuel filter last replaced?

[Silverfang]

Fuel filter was renewed at the garage, the kinked hoses would not have helped but thinking that cause I put the pump in without checking the hoses weren't kinked, that it's fried the new pump as well.

[Brianmoooore]

New ECU is in, and it did run for 90 mins including a test drive, but then stalled out.

Is this exactly the same as before, or has the varying idle bit been sorted?
When you say "stalled out" do you mean it quit as you were driving along under power, or stalled when at idle. If the latter, try and develop a "heel and toe" or left foot braking driving style, so that your foot is always on the throttle and you don't rely on the ICV to keep it running.
Remember, these are extremely simple engines by modern standards, and should be relatively easy to fix - there's just not that much to them. Everything can be checked out in a short time.
If there's any suspicion that this may be fuel pressure related, then it's not difficult to connect up a gauge so that it can be monitored while driving.

[Silverfang]

It's the same fault again.

Basically when on the motorway, it'll sometimes hesitate when you demand more throttle on hills for example and the car coughs and struggles a bit.

As soon as you come off the motorway it'll come to a steady idle for a few moments, then the rev's will suddenly rise to 1800-2000rpm without throttle input. any throttle input results in it stalling out and blowing lots of black sooty smoke, as though it's over fueling.

The car then won't restart easily for a couple of minutes, and you have to let it sit for a bit before it'll restart, however it'll then do the same fault again, unless you let the rev's hang till they settle down that it starts responding to throttle input again and you can then begin to get underway again.

I understand it's a simple system but this fault has foxed me completely and a decent garage so far.

[Brianmoooore]

If there's any suspicion that this may be fuel pressure related, then it's not difficult to connect up a gauge so that it can be monitored while driving.

[Silverfang]

I forgot to mention about that, The garage has checked it while driving, holds around 2.4-2.6 Bar of pressure when running, not sure if that's a little weak.

[Brianmoooore]

Can't you get this car to one of the E30 specialists on here? If this problem car were in my workshop, and I really couldn't solve it, I'd swap virtually everything over from a known working car, confirm that the problem has gone (and hopefully appeared in the donor car), and then work backwards from there.

[Silverfang]

Car's stuck at Dakar Motors honestly, and I wouldn't want to drive it as it's almost unpredictable with the fault being as it is, it's especially bad when driving round town.

[Silverfang]

And after a week or so there, the conclusion is that it is the fuel injectors that are having problems according to the garage. It would explain why it never showed cold and was intermittent and why it's drinking fuel so badly

It is definitely over fuelling like mad, but restarts after you let it sit for a bit to clear and is the only part of the fuel delivery system I've not touched.

I know there's someone on here that does exchange cleaned injectors, but can't remember who though...

[Brianmoooore]

Look in the traders' forum: Injectortune.

[AardHawk]

Did you test the engine temperature sensor (at the ecu connector)? The symptoms you describe are all those that duff sender readings would cause.

[Silverfang]

No, though I've got half a thought if the injector loom is at fault as well, given it's heat related intermitent with what's going on.

EDIT: Found one on eBay, now on the way....

[Silverfang]

Right, I'd best conclude this whole saga.

Good news is, the garage did sort the problem in the end, bad news is we're not sure which of the items we swapped for new parts was the culprit.

We swapped the blue sensor (possible, but I'd put a replacement in a few years ago and it was a bosch item), the injector loom (Possible), and the throttle position switch.

And finally... it hasn't thrown the fault since then. Suspicion was that either the coolant sensor was cutting in the cold start, or the TPS was shorting out with the heat and making the ECU think it was under load.

[Brianmoooore]

Did you test the engine temperature sensor (at the ecu connector)? The symptoms you describe are all those that duff sender readings would cause.