Battery fubar? Or possible earth issue?

[votivequagmire]

OK, so I had to jump start my lump as I need to move her soon, and she's been sitting doing nowt for the past 10 months or so.
I attached the positive feed from battery to battery positive, but when I tried to attach the negative to the engine hoist hook I had no power. I could've tried other ground points but thought better of it and just connected it straight to the battery negative. I let the donor car run for a minute before attempting to start her up.
Now she started quite easily and started to idle nicely. No warning lights lit. So I removed the jump leads and had a quick check around the engine area for any obvious issues but all seemed fine.
I sat in the driver's seat, tested all the electrics ~ lights, heater blowers, stereo, ~ all the essentials lol.
Within a few minutes the car cut out.
I tried starting her up but battery says no?
I reattached the jump leads and started her up again but once again after removing the jump leads, within a few minutes it cut out and unable to start again.
I plan to take a meter down to her and do some testing soon, but I was wondering what you lot thought this sounded like? Maybe you've had the same thing? I'm thinking it could either be a fubar battery which has been out of power to long to accept a charge, or possibly an engine earth has become corroded? I guess it could also be a faulty brush or diode pack on the alternator?
Thoughts or comments appreciated.

[Speedtouch]

If you've left the battery discharged for 10 months, it's possible the plates may have sulphated up.

Try charging it fully - sometimes, it may take a few attempts to restore it.

[Brianmoooore]

Battery duff or not, you're not going to get enough power into it in a few minutes to start an engine.
If the temperature has dropped much below freezing while the battery has been flat, it's likely to have been destroyed.

[votivequagmire]

Ok, thank you both for your input. I can get a used battery which is still quite new for around £20. I'll charge it up before fitting and see if that does it any good. I know myself how important a good battery is to the overall health of the car.
If any other problems then I'll be in touch no doubt.

[votivequagmire]

Ok, so I'm a little confused. I knew that an indicator was out so I found a replacement and fitted it no problem. After finishing I attached the jump leads and she fired up no problemo. Now I noticed that the brakes fluid was a little below minimum but thought nothing of it. I attached both ends of a multimeter to test the charging circuit and for some reason the reading I got said 18 volts? The meter could need calibrating though. Then the engine cut out and hasn't run since?
Now I can turn the engine with the starter but she won't fire up? There was a small issue with the immobiliser when I first attached the jump leads but the light goes out when you touch the dongle for a few seconds. But I think the battery is definitely fubar. Wont hold any charge.
Oh and when I sat in the driver seat and pressed the brake it doesn't harden up, is that a faulty servo?
I thought about putting the duff bulb back in the indicator to see if it would be like it was, just seems that I fix one problem and then find another two or three

[votivequagmire]

I had a look at the rear of each wheel but couldn't see any obvious sign of leakage. Could it just need topping up?

[Speedtouch]

The brakes won't 'harden up' without the engine running to provide servo assistance.

Top it up and keep an eye on the level.

[votivequagmire]

But if you pump them before starting it does harden? That's how they test the servo for the MOT isn't it? And then it normalises after starting? Anyway I will top it up and check again. Unfortunately it's a couple of miles away in my mate's garage. Any ideas about the non starting issue now? Or have I got to go through the usual procedures for tracing the fault?

[Speedtouch]

The brakes will always have a rather 'dead' feel to the pedal without the servo operating.

Does it spin over nice and fast on the starter, or is it slow and reluctant to turn over?

The easiest thing is to try a known good battery and see what happens...

[Brianmoooore]

If your meter accurately recorded 18 volts, then you could have done serious damage to the electronic modules on the car, including the engine ECU.
Assuming your battery is in the boot, open up the phantom battery + terminal box behind the front battery tray, and use a bulb to check that there is power on the smaller terminal, as well as the large one.

[votivequagmire]

Speedtouch : it spins quite well, no apparent reluctance. I have been trying to get a battery but slight funds issue. I discovered quite a few parts I can sell on here but first the computer developed a fault, which I fixed, but then my Internet dongle also went bye byes and replacement arriving tomorrow. I'm having to do all this on my phone which is quite interesting. For some reason it's my turn again for things to go wrong lol.

Brian :The battery is in the front on mine. The meter is about 16 years old and has been bouncing around with the tools so may not be reading right. I'm just confused with the problem as it's not been used so nothing has happened to cause any of this.

[Speedtouch]

Sounds like the battery is probably OK then.

I suggest you follow the Zone's troubleshooting guide:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... oubleshoot

[votivequagmire]

There were jump leads attached to the other car battery though as I said? That's why it was spinning Ok I think.

[Speedtouch]

What's the car like at turning over with just the existing battery?

[votivequagmire]

It won't. No power, will not hold any charge.

[Speedtouch]

Then it's probably had it - fit a replacement.

[votivequagmire]

Yes I already established that, in the above posts, but why does it not start anymore since yesterday when I last jump started it?

[Speedtouch]

Perhaps you flooded it - whip one or more spark plugs out and see if they're sooted up or soaked in fuel...

[Brianmoooore]

Jump leads + cars with electronic systems = not a good idea! Fine on Speedtouch's Moggie, but not on anything more sophisticated.

[votivequagmire]

Could that happen if it starts and runs for a few minutes then? I was under the impression that flooding normally occurs when you're unable to start at all. But she idled perfectly for a minute or two before cutting out when I was about to test the charging circuit. I wish the car was outside here now. Bit of a pain having to walk for 20 minutes before I can work on it.

[Speedtouch]

If the battery is very fubared, it could be dragging the charging voltage right down, and below about 9 Volts, the ECU won't work properly.

[votivequagmire]

Ok, that would explain why it cut out but why won't it start now? Any fuses that I can check apart from the obvious?

[Speedtouch]

Are you trying to start it with the dead battery connected? If so, remove it from the equation!

[Brianmoooore]

Do not use jump leads. Do not use a battery pack. Buy a quality battery, fit it, and go from there.
There are no fuses relevant to the running of the engine, other than one in the engine feed, fitted only to cars with rear mounted batteries, and the fuel pump fuse, #11.

[votivequagmire]

Oki doki. Thanks both. I was trying to avoid spending any money at the moment as all I need to do is move the car from one garage to another one about 15-20 miles away. Where it'll stay for a while again. At least the new garage is lockable.
So now I have to source a half tidy battery from somewhere. Hope my Internet is working tomorrow.

[votivequagmire]

Oh yeah, I nearly forgot. One other issue I had with the car after I fitted a new bulb to the NSF indicator was during testing of the lights etc. I tried both the left and right indicators and both work fine now. Just before I finished inside the car I figured I may as well give the hazards a quick test, after pushing the button only the right hand side of the indicators are flashing including the dash turn signal. Now I've studied the circuit diagram and from what I can see the prime cause of this would seem to originate from the switch? Primarily between BL and 49a? I assume that I would first need to strip down the switch and check all contacts and correct where necessary before reassembling and testing? Would that be an accurate description?

[votivequagmire]

Ok, I managed to get an almost new battery for a great price from my local car dismantlers. :



I attached it and she pretty much started first time. A little spluttery to begin with but that was just down to her being sat for a little while.

I stripped down the hazard warning switch and although I did clean up the contacts and relubricate, I don't think there was a problem inside. I did find a great deal of oxidising on the spade connectors on the rear of the switch. I cleaned them up with some fine sandpaper and now both hazards are working as well as the indicators.

I still need to find out the problem with the brakes. I did top the reservoir back up as it had gone down to the minimum mark. It is now back up to just below maximum. It made no difference to the pedal when I topped it up. I can feel that the servo is working as it does get a little harder to press before starting . But when she is running I press the pedal and there is no pressure felt until near the bottom of travel. I will check it in a day or so time to see if the level has changed again. I think it may air in the system, or possibly a failing wheel cylinder. Hopefully whatever it is, it's not too expensive. I only need to move her 15 miles or so and don't really want to fork out on any more bits just yet. I don't particularly want to bleed the system, so that's probably what needs doing knowing my luck