Scotland - referendum just for zoners :)

[bab-91]

Also, isn't most if not all oil refineries in England?

No, Grangemouth Oil refinery and St Fergus Gas plant.

I thought Grangemouth was struggleing to fight off closure?

Either way, I don't think any talk of oil revenue can replace an economic policy but then when a Nationalist movement is reduced to arguing for Independence with economic arguments they've already lost the fight imo.


Scotland has its own idenity and devolved government. Why replace Westminster with Brussels? Independence makes no sense to me but then I'm biased

[gooner1]

Either way, I don't think any talk of oil revenue can replace an economic policy but then when a Nationalist movement is reduced to arguing for Independence with economic arguments they've already lost the fight imo.

On that premise most youngsters would never leave
the parental home. Which, incidentally, seems to be happening
at a much later stage in life now days.

[bab-91]

On that premise most youngsters would never leave
the parental home. Which, incidentally, seems to be happening
at a much later stage in life now days.

I don't see how home ownership and self determination are linked.

I don't remember the Poles, Czechs, Kenyans, Irish or Israelis saying "We want independence BUT only if it's economically viable!"

[gooner1]

I don't see how home ownership and self determination are linked.

I don't remember the the Poles, Czechs, Kenyans, Irish or Israelis saying "We want independence BUT only if it's economically viable!"

Who mentioned home ownership?
I'm talking simple economics, rent, food, utility bills etc, etc.
"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."

Do you not think the eventual leaders of those now independent
countries at least considered the incomings and outgoings of their
respective economies? Except, ironically, maybe the Israelis.

[bab-91]

I meant.. I don't see the parental home and children being a very fitting analogy! lol

I doubt any of the countries named considered economics and where only concerned with sovereignty. It's only recently we have become obsessed by economics.


Maybe my point of view is simplistic or idealistic but in NI we get faced with the same arguments for and against the union.
Despite which community I come from, I wouldn't be swayed by economic arguments. I think some posing these arguments understand 'the cost of everything and the value of nothing'. Not everything comes down to coin nor should it.

[pacerpete]

Everybody knows that your average orange cooont is much more concerned about his pounds than the Crown

[bab-91]

Everybody knows that your average orange cooont is much more concerned about his pounds than the Crown

True! A strange lot.


I joke, all they care about is FLEGS!

[nickso]

On the subject of oil longevity I believe there is more than 50 years left in it now, plus the possibility of more in deeper seas that hasn't been accessed yet. Enough oil to see me out anyway.

Either way Scottish government or at least the SNP seem to be trying to steer us towards the nonsense of becoming Europes renewables leader.

[Gert_8]

50 years?! I read 20 years, globally, or was that just for the A-rabs? If it's the latter, you Scots are going to be riding velvet covered ferraris.

[gooner1]

I meant.. I don't see the parental home and children being a very fitting analogy! lol

I doubt any of the countries named considered economics and where only concerned with sovereignty. It's only recently we have become obsessed by economics.


Maybe my point of view is simplistic or idealistic but in NI we get faced with the same arguments for and against the union.
Despite which community I come from, I wouldn't be swayed by economic arguments. I think some posing these arguments understand 'the cost of everything and the value of nothing'. Not everything comes down to coin nor should it.

I wholeheartedly endorse your last paragraph.

[Gert_8]

I didn't know this:

Non-scottish (not born there) people currently residing in Scotland = 413,924

Scottish (born there) residing outside of Scotland, but within the UK = 790,784.

The latter do not get to vote. The former do!

[87mtech27]

NO NO NO!!!

Divided we are weaker and even more insignificant in terms of global power and strength than we already are. I'm still p***ed the British Empire did away with commonwealth countries.

I reckon this idea of separation is being influenced by USA behind the scenes somewhere so we are never a threat to anyone in the future

We should conquer more land and territory for keeps such as Argentina and more of Spain to protect Gibraltar

[nickso]

We should conquer more land and territory for keeps such as Argentina and more of Spain to protect Gibraltar

Have you been playing too much Civ 5 today?

[bab-91]

We should conquer more land and territory for keeps such as Argentina and more of Spain to protect Gibraltar

Have you been playing too much Civ 5 today?

A real man would try and take back Hong Kong

[dimebag_from_hell]

If I for a second thought northern ireland would be better of leaving the uk, I would be all for it!!!

But we are not, so until then, being part of the uk will do just fine!

[Gert_8]

At least North & South Ireland aren't attached to the mainland, which forms part of a better argument. Wouldn't be A big loss IMO

[bab-91]

At least North & South Ireland aren't attached to the mainland, which forms part of a better argument. Wouldn't be A big loss IMO

It would be massive loss you blithering toff!

[Gert_8]

I wish the "Emerald Isle" was simply tethered to the UK, so after promising to never let go, we let its dead, worthless body slip away into the sea.

A bit like Jack in the film Titanic.

[bab-91]

That was tried before but our German brethren in Hamburg give us guns.


It was decided it was best to not leave us unsupervised.

[Gert_8]

That was tried before but our German brethren in Hamburg give us guns.


It was decided it was best to not leave us unsupervised.

I've never liked those German coonts. Their cars are the exception, though (tech II FTW!)

[Gert_8]

That was tried before but our German brethren in Hamburg give us guns.


It was decided it was best to not leave us unsupervised.

I've never liked those German coonts. Their cars are the exception, though (tech II FTW!)

Germans had rules the Russians where the real coooonts

Always have been, always will be. Just watching things develop in the Crimea...... That Dobby look alike is a bit of a crazy coont.

[steve_k]

How come no one has mentioned the immigration aspect of Scotland leaving the UK?

If they do become an independent country then they will have to set up some sort of border control with england, then they've got the issue of work permits for anyone from the UK & elsewhere who wants to work there & folk who want to live there, in a way it could help Cameron with his idea of only allowing 100K migrants into the UK as when/if escosse did become independent & gain membership of the EU they would be expected to take their fair share of immigrants,

& as was said on the news the other day, the townns, city's, etc here in england can no longer come with it so what chance does Scotland have?? Has salmond thought of that?? Doubt it very much.

[steve_k]

Gert, you mention the Ukraine, that's just going to restart the cold war if the USA get involved like they're on about.

[bab-91]

That was tried before but our German brethren in Hamburg give us guns.


It was decided it was best to not leave us unsupervised.

I've never liked those German coonts. Their cars are the exception, though (tech II FTW!)

They have a lot to answer for.


Don't be ridiculous, Gert. A man of your taste wants a tech 1.

[bab-91]

Gert, you mention the Ukraine, that's just going to restart the cold war if the USA get involved like they're on about.

They won't. Same situation as Georgia. US trained Georgian military and still sat back and did nothing.


Russia is flexing its muscles over what it see's as Western powers encircling the mother land


Not only that, the far right with Nazi overtones has become very popular (in Ukraine). Not an ideal country to risk a major confrontation over.

[dimebag_from_hell]

Gert, you mention the Ukraine, that's just going to restart the cold war if the USA get involved like they're on about.

They won't. Same situation as Georgia. US trained Georgian military and still sat back and did nothing.


Russia is flexing its muscles over what it see's as Western powers encircling the mother land


Not only that, the far right with Nazi overtones has become very popular (in Ukraine). Not an ideal country to risk a major confrontation over.

The power the USA now hold make them unstoppable, they would royally fuck every single country on this planet if need be.

[Speedtouch]

I see that George Galloway was given a good pasting:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... al-assault

Always reassuring to see politicians put in their place.

[TPS]

Being proudly English, if they do vote yes, then I don't want them to have our Pound, & we can stop paying for them, (eg the free university places they get, we pay for that!!!!), which we don't get down here, we pull up the drawbridge as well. Install passport control at the end of the M6 as well.

[Gert_8]

Salmond will do for Scotland what Jinah did for Pakistan - fuck it up and make it envious of it's bigger and better neighbour, but that will only happen after some time has passed, and realisation dawned.

Salmond, in the short term will have got his hearts desire - statues of himself as Scotland's "saviour"

[nickso]

Being proudly English, if they do vote yes, then I don't want them to have our Pound, & we can stop paying for them, (eg the free university places they get, we pay for that!!!!), which we don't get down here, we pull up the drawbridge as well. Install passport control at the end of the M6 as well.

Bit harsh.

I certainly don't want a protected border to Engerland.....how am I going to enter Scotland under the radar so I can live tax free? (which I'm going to have to do to pay for all this nonsense) Ferry from Ireland costs more and takes time.

Don't English students in Scotland also get free uni? Seem to remember a bit a rush to get up here for that....possibly not. I don't think England has much to moan about that anyway, the barnett formula argument has been proven shaky I think.

[hennared323i]

Having spent the last 20 odd years living in the provinces I can honestly say Englandshire is a positive hole compared to the country of my birth.

I wonder if, after the referendum, the 97% of land in Scotland owned by non Scots will be returned to the teuchters, meelers and sasunnachs.

and anyone who believes a word written in wikipedia is true needs shooting

[Gert_8]

University fees are only paid by non-Scottish people studying in Scotland. Preference is also given to Scottish students. This, for the moment, is also the case in Wales, apart from the preference bit, because that is bordering on racism.

Scotland is a very beautiful, without a doubt, but it is also part of the United Kingdom.