testing HELP

Need technical Q/A then you're in the right place

Moderator: martauto

magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:37 pm

after having a head skim and new head gasket the car is now only running on 5 cylinders [m52] can someone tell me how you check if the injector is getting power ,it's number 6 that's down

I've swapped the injector from pot 6 into pot 1 and pot 1 is running fine and pot 6 isn't firing still .i've had the plug out of pot 6 and it has a spark [plugged into pot 6 coil pack] .

Image

the wires are red/white and brown/pink in the pic .
below is what i've got to test the wires with .

Image

what setting do i need the meter on and what should it read .

Tia,Mick.
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
User avatar
gromgsxr
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:00 pm

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:45 pm

You should get 12v with ignition on but not running or 1 of the 2 wires to ground guessing it will be red wire, check both stick one probe on a wire and the second on sum in metal in the bay block or head ect.the ecu will turn the ground wire on to fire the fuel.
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:23 pm

i put the live probe on the brown wire and earthed the red/white one and the probe wires got very hot very quickly so tried the other way round,live probe on red and black probe on brown with earth to strut top and the injector clicks with contact of the probe and i'm getting readings of 11.55 up to 11.88 on all 6 injectors.the readings are rising and falling on each injector when tested so there is no steady reading.

this isn't looking good :(
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
Speedtouch
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 14123
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Canterbury

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:33 pm

The probe wires shouldn't get hot at all if you're on a voltage setting, as it is a high impedance input that draws very little current - are you sure you didn't have it on amps range?! :?

The injectors are pulsed, so a digital meter isn't going to show any meaningful readings - you should use either a test lamp or an analogue moving coil voltmeter, or an oscilloscope to show the pulses.

Use the multimeter to check that each injector plug has a good earth - use either resistance or continuity range and hold one lead against battery - or an earth point on the car and use the other probe to try each injector plug earth terminal.
Last edited by Speedtouch on Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
User avatar
gromgsxr
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:00 pm

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Sounds like they are all getting power then could try a test light or small bulb connected in place of the non working injector should flash / glow when you crank / run the engine.
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:01 pm

all i have here is this to test with.

Image

where do i put the red probe, middle or left hole and which setting do i put the meter at.

do i need to go get a test light screwdriver thing ?
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:06 pm

all injectors are showing -12.40 when checking the earths.
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
craigieeb
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 4988
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: In my man cave modifying... something

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:34 pm

Mick, knock up a simple test light, with a bulb and a couple of bits of wire
M50 Turbo!!! :o I shall say no more :D
jimbom30cab
Tech 1 freak
Posts: 7631
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: in the garage

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:18 pm

Mick, I had something similar , turned out I had bent one of the injector pins slightly so it wasn't making the connection when the plug was fitted
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:43 pm

here's a vid of where i'm at ....

[youtube][/youtube]

even though the bulb isn't lighting up i can see/hear the engine loose revs via a power drain when i hook the probes up on all the injectors apart from number 6 where nothing happens at all.
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
User avatar
gromgsxr
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:00 pm

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Have you got a wire pin out of what wire does what on the ecu? If so remove ecu and do a continuity test from the injector plug back to ecu, turn meter to HFE and probes in 2 on right if you touch probes together should beep that means electricity can flow though. Put 1 on the injector plug wire and the other on the wire at the ecu end if it beeps the wire works will be the non red wire on the plugs
DanThe
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 28649
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Staffs

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:21 pm

What Jimbo said Mick, pull the plug rail off and check the pins/sockets are all looking ok
You need an LED test light to show the injector pulses, a bulb cant light up fast enough
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:40 pm

i'll have another look tomorrow ,i can't be far away from driving this now :mad:
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
Speedtouch
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 14123
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Canterbury

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Use the red probe to the middle socket on the multimeter - the one to the left is for high current (10 Amps) testing only.

Don't bother with the hFE setting - that's for testing transistors, using the little yellow socket on the bottom right of the multimeter. :wink:

The bulb test might have worked, if you used a smaller, say 2.2 Watt dashboard backlight bulb instead of a 55 Watt halogen headlamp bulb!
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
User avatar
wellard
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:00 pm
Location: warwickshire

Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:56 pm

The injectors are suplied 12volts on a common connection so if you have the same voltage at each injector that is okay.each injector is switched to earth via the dme.
As Dan said check the plug on the injector as the connectors can push out into the rubber cover when you plug them on.
If that is ok then check the brown wire from the injector back to the dme for continuity.you can download e36 wiring diagrams for free if you google them.
If the wires are ok you may have an internal fault in the dme.
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:03 am

i've just checked the plugs and they are all ok,i hooked up the dashboard bulb and it flashes on pot 6 :?


gonna put the plug rail back on and try it again. :?
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
pacerpete
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 18165
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Iver heath. South bucks.

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:21 am

Shame it is not a quattroporte :( The fix would be much easier :)
Speedtouch
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 14123
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Canterbury

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:34 am

magpie wrote:i've just checked the plugs and they are all ok,i hooked up the dashboard bulb and it flashes on pot 6 :?
Repeat the test for the other injector sockets; all should flash in a similar way.
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:18 pm

all the injectors are getting power,i've just checked again that i have spark on pot 6 and that's ok so i swapped injector out of pot 6 into pot 1 and started it up again,still running on 5 pots with number 6 down still ...why won't it fire up pot 6 :? .

could it be the timing ?
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
DanThe
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 28649
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Staffs

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:39 pm

Screwdriver stethoscope on the injector and you will hear it clicking if its working
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:19 pm

all injectors are ticking away ,it's just running lumpy and if i unplug pot 6 coil pack it doesn't get worse :?


the plug would get wet if it wasn't firing wouldn't it ?
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
Speedtouch
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 14123
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Canterbury

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:20 pm

Try a compression test.
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:28 pm

i don't have anything to test it with ....
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
craigieeb
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 4988
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: In my man cave modifying... something

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:51 pm

have you swapped the coil pack from no 6 to a different cylinder?
to see if that cylinder drops off?
M50 Turbo!!! :o I shall say no more :D
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:30 pm

craigieeb wrote:have you swapped the coil pack from no 6 to a different cylinder?
to see if that cylinder drops off?
yes mate,swapped everything over.
injector,plug and coil pack .They all work on another cylinder .

if plug 6 wasn't firing it would get wet yeah ?
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
craigieeb
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 4988
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: In my man cave modifying... something

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:34 pm

magpie wrote:
if plug 6 wasn't firing it would get wet yeah ?
Yep
M50 Turbo!!! :o I shall say no more :D
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:50 pm

think i need a compression tester it's not looking good :x
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
Speedtouch
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 14123
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Canterbury

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:28 am

Yes, it would. To check for compression, remove the spark plug for #6 cylinder and spin it over on the starter and either poke your finger or thumb over the plug hole if it will reach, or use something suitable such as the end of a bog brush to feel for the pressure.

You could even put your face over it to feel (and hear) for the draught.
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:27 am

i'm going to run the car in a bit for a short while maybe 5 mins and check if #6 plug is wet .
if it isn't then i'll whip the cover off and check the timing ,well i'll put the crank to tdc and check the two cam squares at the rear are sitting flush with the head .
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
User avatar
driftwood
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:00 pm

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:52 pm

Was everything ok before having the head gasket done? Could a valve have been knocked? You need to do a compression test with all the plugs out and with full throttle. I presume you actually have a spark at the plug. Not sure if the ignition system can be damaged if the coil packs aren't grounded or disconnected completely. Check these 2 things before going any further.
Not a purist.
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:05 pm

right it's running on 6 pots but rough with a clank noise coming from the inlet cam on pot 6

Image
plug 6 before running

and after below.
Image

off to spend another £21 on a compression tester
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:50 pm

the results are in...

pot 1
Image

pot 2
Image

pot 3
Image

pot 4
Image

pot 5
Image

and finally pot 6
Image


:( engine number two F00ked !
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)
Rtaylor2208
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:00 pm
Location: Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:09 pm

Nightmare, this engine swap is getting mighty expensive.
Speedtouch
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 14123
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Canterbury

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:12 pm

Bummer, but at least you now know the cause of the non-running cylinder, and those compression gauges can be used on any future engine you want to check, so are well worth having.

Maybe it has a bent valve?
///M aurice
ECU Upgrade EPROM Chips, £40 posted within the UK. Note these are not Zone chips.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=279421
magpie
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 28035
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Consett,Durham.

Post Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:16 pm

so i take the head off and turn it upside down,make sure the cams have pot 6 valves closed and fill the valve bowl with water to see if any drains out ?
Image
m52 b30 stroker 6-speed 318is Galvanizer
m42 touring
+ a yard full of scrap turds :)