opel manta quick rack into an e30

[318is_irl]

has anyone ever heard or seen this been done??

[kam-325i]

Ive never heard of it, but that does not mean it cant be done....

[M3Compact]

I had an Opel Manta with a quick rack, it had 2.5 turns.

An upside down LHD Talbot Sunbeam (2.25 turns) quick rack will work, it even uses the E30 track rod ends.

No info on the swap but I know of two people who use them in E30 rally cars, both said it was an easy mod.

[Martinaston]

Z3 is 2.7 turns.

[Brianmoooore]

Z3 is 2.7 turns.

But isn't this because of a restricted travel?

[Jhonno]

Z3 is 2.7 turns.

But isn't this because of a restricted travel?

never been confirmed.. it is rumored but no one has stepped up and measured yet..

[M3Compact]

Z3 is 2.7 turns.

But isn't this because of a restricted travel?

never been confirmed.. it is rumored but no one has stepped up and measured yet..

I've measured them all personally. (Except E36 M3 3.0L, which is reported to be a variable ratio equivalent of the Evo rack.)

Z3 = 2.75 turns, 147mm travel.

E36 M3 Evo = 3.1 turns, 147mm travel.

Standard E36 rack = 3.4 turns, 158mm travel.

Z3 and E36 M3 Evo racks are restricted in their travel by removable lock limiting tabs.

An M3 Evo rack with the lock limiting tabs removed is exactly the same as a standard E36 rack.

Z3 rack is the quickest.

[Jimbob]

Simon do you have the info for the E30 rack, just to show how many years behind it is

[Brianmoooore]

Simon do you have the info for the E30 rack, just to show how many years behind it is

Don't see that the E30 rack is "years behind" anything. Nothing technically dificult about designing the rack for any ratio. It's just what the original designers chose for the original manual racks.
Bit of a mystery why they didn't speed it up a bit when they made the power rack though!
So the Z3 rack is the fastest then, but not as fast as it first looks. Comes out at just under 3.1, I should think.

[Martinaston]

I did measure and post it on another thread (don't ask where i can't remember)
But i remember the amount of travel was the same as the E30.

[M3Compact]

So the Z3 rack is the fastest then, but not as fast as it first looks. Comes out at just under 3.1, I should think.

That's correct Brian, but in practice it feels a lot more than 10% quicker than a normal E36 rack.

I'd prefer only a slightly quicker one (2.6ish turns) for road/tarmac use, and no less than 2.4 turns otherwise. (Gravel, snow etc.)

The Opel Manta that I had with the quick rack at 2.5 turns needed a quicker rack, and I've had Escorts, Sunbeams etc with 2.25 turn racks that were only just quick enough with the steering ratio.

Gratuitous pic posting of my Opel Manta. (H/pin right.)



Opposing view.



The difference with the E36s is that they have more actual lock/travel/proximity to hub centre, than the Mantas etc. The Manta rack is unlikely to be any good imo.

The Z3 rack transforms the steering on an E36.

Imo it's worth finding one if you're going to the effort of fitting an E36 rack to an E30.

[ian332isport]

I've measured them all personally. (Except E36 M3 3.0L, which is reported to be a variable ratio equivalent of the Evo rack.)

Z3 = 2.75 turns, 147mm travel.

E36 M3 Evo = 3.1 turns, 147mm travel.

Standard E36 rack = 3.4 turns, 158mm travel.

Z3 and E36 M3 Evo racks are restricted in their travel by removable lock limiting tabs.

An M3 Evo rack with the lock limiting tabs removed is exactly the same as a standard E36 rack.

Z3 rack is the quickest.

Simon,

Have you confirmed that the Z3 rack is actually fitted with the lock limiting tabs ?

Ian.

[Martinaston]

Where are they and what do they look like and i'll let you know.

[ian332isport]

Where are they and what do they look like and i'll let you know.

They are inside the steering rack rubber gaiters.

If you look where the inner tie rod joint screws into the end of the actual rack itself, you should see a lock tab that is bent over to stop the joint from undoing by itself.

If the steering limiter is fitted, it looks like a horse shoe shaped piece of metal is spot welded to the back of this lock tab. It just physically stops the rack from travelling as far. If you don't have the limiter fitted, then the lock tab is just a simple piece of flat metal (like a big washer).

Ian.

[mrLEE30]

ah ha, that explains why i nearly hit the inside of roundabouts in the Z3, especially after drivin my E30

i thought it felt like the Z3 had a variable ratio rack, it felt like it turned very quick for the first half trun then slowed down, guess i was wrong.

i willl have a look underneath tonight ian332i

mrlee

[M3Compact]

ah ha, that explains why i nearly hit the inside of roundabouts in the Z3, especially after driving my E30

i thought it felt like the Z3 had a variable ratio rack, it felt like it turned very quick for the first half turn then slowed down, guess i was wrong.

Variable ratio racks work the other way around, they're slower in the middle section for cruising comfort and quicker towards the ends for parking convenience.

I know what you mean about the oversteering tho'. I've been driving two Compacts recently, one with the standard rack and one with a Z3 rack, the effect is astonishing considering they're only 10% different.

Simon,

Have you confirmed that the Z3 rack is actually fitted with the lock limiting tabs ?

Ian.

Not yet personally Ian, but I've been told by two people that the M3 and Z3 racks use them.

Are you considering a Z3 rack? Well worth it for sideways antics imo.

You're welcome to try the Compact if you're ever up this way.

[ian332isport]

Are you considering a Z3 rack? Well worth it for sideways antics imo.

You're welcome to try the Compact if you're ever up this way.

Simon,

It's something I fancy doing, but I don't want to reduce my steering travel in the process. I'm currently running the standard 3.4 turn E36 rack with no lock limiters. If I can get a Z3 rack with a quicker ratio but the same travel then I would go for it. Seeing as I've already converted to an E36 rack, it's a simple bolt on job for me

Thanks for the offer of a drive in the Compact. As much as I would like to try it, I'm not often that far 'oop north'.

I know what you mean about it making a big difference to how the car feels. People don't think that changing from 4 turns lock to lock to 3.4 turns will make much difference. It's actually a huge improvement and how the car should have been as standard IMHO.

Ian.

[mrLEE30]

M3Compact Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mrLEE30 wrote:
ah ha, that explains why i nearly hit the inside of roundabouts in the Z3, especially after driving my E30

i thought it felt like the Z3 had a variable ratio rack, it felt like it turned very quick for the first half turn then slowed down, guess i was wrong.


Variable ratio racks work the other way around, they're slower in the middle section for cruising comfort and quicker towards the ends for parking convenience.

thats actually what i meant, that the front wheels seem to turn quick for very little imput from the steerin wheel especially for the initial quarter turn of the wheel

i will check out my wife's rack tonight (on her Z3!)

mrlee

[Martinaston]

No tabs on this one i've got and if there were could you not just change them for these ?


I'm pretty sure it's not a variable rack but then i've not even got around to cleaning it up yet.

This is the number on it.

[JazzMan]

I had an E36 Compact, I always thought the rack on that was quite quick compared to the E46 I have now. It didnt have an limiters built in as it only have 205 width tyres. 225's rubbed on full lock when I tried a set briefly.

I can't remember the amount of turns on it though.

[ian332isport]

No tabs on this one i've got and if there were could you not just change them for these ?

Oh yes, that's exactly what you can do. I'm just trying to ascertain if the Z3 rack is fitted with the limiters as standard. If it isn't, then the rack travel is less than I want. If it is, then it's just a case of fitting the parts you pictured above, and off we go

I checked that part number is the ETK, and it's been superseded by 32 13 1 094 039. This part does not actually report to any models, but it's re-manufactured equivalent is fitted to these models.



Ian.

[M3Compact]

I'm just trying to ascertain if the Z3 rack is fitted with the limiters as standard. If it isn't, then the rack travel is less than I want. If it is, then it's just a case of fitting the parts you pictured above, and off we go

Seems like it isn't looking too hopeful for you Ian.

It'd be interesting to know the output length/travel of the rack without the limiting tabs.

Are you sure that losing 7% of the travel would be an issue for you Ian?

I'll check my rack asap, I'll have a look today if it's accessible with the sump guard on.

I'm pretty sure it's not a variable rack but then i've not even got around to cleaning it up yet.

I haven't accurately checked this on my Z3 rack, but it deffo doesn't seem to be variable.

[Martinaston]

The travel on that rack is 145mm which i think is the same as the original rack.

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... ack+travel

[M3Compact]

The travel on that rack is 145mm which i think is the same as the original rack.

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... ack+travel

I've just had a look and I can't get at mine to double check, but it seems pretty conclusive from your findings Martin.

If it's the same amount of travel as an E30 rack, why is the extra travel of a lower geared standard E36 rack req'd Ian?

I reckon it's worth giving it a go Ian, the difference in the steering is worth sacrificing an extra 7% of lock imo, you could always change it back if you didn't like it.