Wondering if anyone has had this at all? I've searched everywhere but keep getting the opposite of my problems.
My electric windows are constantly working, and the interior light is always on, doesn't matter which position the switch is in. The light under the electric window switches are always illuminated.
My battery seems to struggle on some start ups, and the car goes dead sometimes, after a few days without any use.
The previous owner seems to have botched the wiring. i found some additional wiring to include a multi 12v socket thing under the passenger dash.
I went over a speed bump the other day and my indicators stopped working. turned out to be a wire from the back of the stereo came loose, as someone wired it to a spliced section of cable going into the steering wheel (indicator switch)
anway, has anyone ever had this problem?
Oh, and my tach needle flickers sometimes, even with the ignition off. It jumps from 0-1000 ish.
Any help will be appreciated!
Electrics!
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votivequagmire
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Well the windows are connected to the door switches on the front so if the car is switched off and the key removed, you can still operate the windows if you open either the driver or passenger front doors. If the interior light is on constantly too then it would suggest that there is a constant live 12V going through. If the previous owner has bodged it then you may have a long task ahead to find and return it to normality again. But I would check the door switches anyway, could be what's causing some of the problems. Quite cheap to replace thankfully.
'88 325i M20, could've done with a sunroof.
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Brianmoooore
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Do the lights go out if you push the door switches in by hand?
Rev. counter problem is a common quirk of instrument clusters fitted with lithium type batteries. AFAIK, it causes no other problems.
Rev. counter problem is a common quirk of instrument clusters fitted with lithium type batteries. AFAIK, it causes no other problems.
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Rhyse30
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For some reason I've only checked the driver side door! I'll have a look on my lunch break now and get back to you...if my car starts!
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Rhyse30
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I just checked and the lights are still on when i push the door switches in myself. I've unscrewed them and both side seem to have the connection in place properly, could be a fault on the other end of the cables? or with the actual switches I guess?
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Brianmoooore
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No, if the lights are on when the switches are unscrewed, it's time to look elsewhere.
Next step is to remove the inspection cover above the glovebox (push out pins at bottom of glovebox straps, unscrew one cross head screw at the front, and two quarter turn plastic fixings further back and remove the panel. Take care not to dislodge all or part of the glovebox light.) and find a blue relay at the LH side behind it.
Close up pics. of the wiring to this relay would be useful.
Next step is to remove the inspection cover above the glovebox (push out pins at bottom of glovebox straps, unscrew one cross head screw at the front, and two quarter turn plastic fixings further back and remove the panel. Take care not to dislodge all or part of the glovebox light.) and find a blue relay at the LH side behind it.
Close up pics. of the wiring to this relay would be useful.
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Rhyse30
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I've just taken some photos after having a look under the glove box inspection panel. Here's what it looks like..
Is this the blue relay you talked about?
these two cables are just hanging down... there is no glove box light. where would it usually go?
This is going straight to the battery, then from there you have a black cable going under the front bumper where there are about 4 horns.
and finally you have this all connected.
there used to be a multi socket charger coming out of the connection boxes on the bottom left there. and the red cable from the battery is going into this. since ive disconnected that the antenna has stopped working. Sorry about all the pictures. Under the dash is a very confusing place to be for me atm!
any thoughts?
Is this the blue relay you talked about?
these two cables are just hanging down... there is no glove box light. where would it usually go?
This is going straight to the battery, then from there you have a black cable going under the front bumper where there are about 4 horns.
and finally you have this all connected.
there used to be a multi socket charger coming out of the connection boxes on the bottom left there. and the red cable from the battery is going into this. since ive disconnected that the antenna has stopped working. Sorry about all the pictures. Under the dash is a very confusing place to be for me atm!
any thoughts?
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Brianmoooore
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Pic. 3 is a close up of the accessories socket. Unplug the red/yellow wire with the doors closed and see if the windows stop working. Replace the wire, then do the same with the white/black wire. Does the blue relay click when you disconnect either of these.
Pic. 2 : Pull the plug and socket in the blue/green wire by the glovebox hinge apart and see if the windows stop working.
Pic. 4 : That's the relay.
Pic. 5 : The black pin and disc in the bracket for the catch is a very small part of the combined switch and light for the glovebox, and the two wires should be attached to it. Either obtain one from a breaker, or make certain end of the red/green wire can't touch the end of the brown wire or any metal.
Pic. 6 : Why do people do this?? I strongly suggest you remove this wire right back to the battery, and everything it may be bodged up to at its other end.
Pic. 7 : Wire cutter time! Is any of that mess a plain white and plain red wire, attached to each other to form a parallel pair, that goes back the LH sill, or possibly (if the fitting dealer was lazy) back along the top of the transmission tunnel?
If so, this is the cable to the electric aerial. The white should go to the radio (switched 12 volts out), and the red should go to the plug on the short red/yellow flying lead in pics. 1 and two, that comes from the top left socket of the accessories socket.
Pic. 2 : Pull the plug and socket in the blue/green wire by the glovebox hinge apart and see if the windows stop working.
Pic. 4 : That's the relay.
Pic. 5 : The black pin and disc in the bracket for the catch is a very small part of the combined switch and light for the glovebox, and the two wires should be attached to it. Either obtain one from a breaker, or make certain end of the red/green wire can't touch the end of the brown wire or any metal.
Pic. 6 : Why do people do this?? I strongly suggest you remove this wire right back to the battery, and everything it may be bodged up to at its other end.
Pic. 7 : Wire cutter time! Is any of that mess a plain white and plain red wire, attached to each other to form a parallel pair, that goes back the LH sill, or possibly (if the fitting dealer was lazy) back along the top of the transmission tunnel?
If so, this is the cable to the electric aerial. The white should go to the radio (switched 12 volts out), and the red should go to the plug on the short red/yellow flying lead in pics. 1 and two, that comes from the top left socket of the accessories socket.
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Rhyse30
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Ive had a look again and here is what I found...
With the relay doesnt click when I plug the black/white wire in but does click when I do the same with the red/yellow. Your right about the lazy dealer, theres a red and white wire going along the transmission tunnel. But some of these wires, along with the red coming from the accessories socket are cut up an wired into the mess! The red wire going straight through to the battery is going to the mess as well then going to the windscreen heater button. Im going to have another look now and disconnect everything from the battery. Ill post some picthres of what I have left. Think(hope) its getting there now! Thanks!
With the relay doesnt click when I plug the black/white wire in but does click when I do the same with the red/yellow. Your right about the lazy dealer, theres a red and white wire going along the transmission tunnel. But some of these wires, along with the red coming from the accessories socket are cut up an wired into the mess! The red wire going straight through to the battery is going to the mess as well then going to the windscreen heater button. Im going to have another look now and disconnect everything from the battery. Ill post some picthres of what I have left. Think(hope) its getting there now! Thanks!
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Rhyse30
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Ive managed to remove the wires coming from the battery, doesnt seem to have affected which I spose is good. And got to work with some wire cutters on the carnage. A few questions, the red/yellow wire coming from the top left in picture 3, what else is that used for? Theres two connection coming outnof mine, one will make the antenna work, the other disappears up to the left into the loom. With this one out, and I just plug the antenna in, the windows work with the ignition 'on', and off when ignition off (as normal?) So whats the other red/yellow wire?
One more thing, i have foundthe cables to make the cigarette lighter work, but where does it get the power from? The c302 socket?
Sorry if this is confusing!
One more thing, i have foundthe cables to make the cigarette lighter work, but where does it get the power from? The c302 socket?
Sorry if this is confusing!
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Brianmoooore
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Cigarette lighter is also supplied by a red/yellow wire, but although it's supplied by the same fuse as the pin with the red/yellow wire on it in the accessories socket, it's a separate wire all the way from the fuse.
The plain red from the aerial was originally intended to be plugged into the socket where the red/yellow is, but UK cars have an additional circuit that allows the windows and roof to work with the ignition off and the doors open.
There are two red/yellow wires coming from the plug into the accessories socket. One of these is just a short lead ending in a socket, into which the aerial red is plugged, instead of straight into the C302, and the other one goes to the blue relay that switches the windows and roof power supply wires between its two possible power sources.
With the relay unenergised, the windows and roof (green/blue wire) get there power from the ignition switched supply from fuse 17 along the white/black wire plugged into the C302, but when the front doors are opened, the relay is energised, and the power source is switched to the red/yellow wire from fuse 28.
You say the relay clicked when you unplugged the red/yellow wire from the C302, so the relay was energised, which is why your windows are powered all of the time.
One end of the relay's coil is also connected to the red/yellow wire, so to energise it, the other end of the coil needs to be earthed.
This is a brown/blue wire which goes to one terminal of each front door pin switch, where it is earthed when a door is opened. It seems that this wire is permanently earthed somehow. You have operated the switches manually (both at the same time?), and that didn't cure the problem, so it looks like there is a short to earth somewhere on this wire, possibly via a bit of non BMW wiring spliced to it.
I take it that you've checked that the plastic buttons in the door frame that push against the pin switches haven't both gone missing?
The plain red from the aerial was originally intended to be plugged into the socket where the red/yellow is, but UK cars have an additional circuit that allows the windows and roof to work with the ignition off and the doors open.
There are two red/yellow wires coming from the plug into the accessories socket. One of these is just a short lead ending in a socket, into which the aerial red is plugged, instead of straight into the C302, and the other one goes to the blue relay that switches the windows and roof power supply wires between its two possible power sources.
With the relay unenergised, the windows and roof (green/blue wire) get there power from the ignition switched supply from fuse 17 along the white/black wire plugged into the C302, but when the front doors are opened, the relay is energised, and the power source is switched to the red/yellow wire from fuse 28.
You say the relay clicked when you unplugged the red/yellow wire from the C302, so the relay was energised, which is why your windows are powered all of the time.
One end of the relay's coil is also connected to the red/yellow wire, so to energise it, the other end of the coil needs to be earthed.
This is a brown/blue wire which goes to one terminal of each front door pin switch, where it is earthed when a door is opened. It seems that this wire is permanently earthed somehow. You have operated the switches manually (both at the same time?), and that didn't cure the problem, so it looks like there is a short to earth somewhere on this wire, possibly via a bit of non BMW wiring spliced to it.
I take it that you've checked that the plastic buttons in the door frame that push against the pin switches haven't both gone missing?
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Rhyse30
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Yes checked the plastic buttons are still there. I think I've had some kind of break through but correct me if this is wrong.
The windows work when the doors are closed and the ignition on.
They also work when i open the passenger door and no keys in the ignition. Is this right? (or partly) As when I open the driver side door, they don't work.
Just a few more pictures of what i found and if you could give me some answered to whats their then that would be brilliant!
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
On the left door switch, there's two wires coming out from it, one goes into the loom, the other has a connection at the end of it, which i've shown in pic 1. it was connected to the spade connection you can see in the bottom of pic 2. Is this meant to be connected?
Pic 3 is the right side door switch which also has a connection going to the loom, but no other connection like the left side. i did find this wire sticking out, the on seen at the top right of pic 3. Is this meant to connect to something and thats why the windows dont work when i open the right hand door?
Pic 4 you can see a black wire with a fuse coming from the back of the stereo and spliced into the loom going in behind the steering wheel. This poped out of the stereo the other day and blew my indicator fuses. why is this connected here?
Pic 5 is the back of the stereo where the back cable is connected at the bottom of the picture.
The last thing is in previous pictures where you told me to get the wire cutters out... I've done that and got rid of most of it. But the maximum windscreen defroster button was connected to this using one white cable to ground, and a red cable into the mess. Ive taken this out and have no idea where i would rewire it.
Another problem i had yesterday was when i had the ignition on and the stereo on, the antenna came up (which is great as it didnt do it before) but if i press the 'windows up switch', the antenna lost power and started to go down, until i let go of the switch then came back up again.
I think im getting there, just really want to get it back to as close to factory as possible! thanks again for all the help!
The windows work when the doors are closed and the ignition on.
They also work when i open the passenger door and no keys in the ignition. Is this right? (or partly) As when I open the driver side door, they don't work.
Just a few more pictures of what i found and if you could give me some answered to whats their then that would be brilliant!
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
On the left door switch, there's two wires coming out from it, one goes into the loom, the other has a connection at the end of it, which i've shown in pic 1. it was connected to the spade connection you can see in the bottom of pic 2. Is this meant to be connected?
Pic 3 is the right side door switch which also has a connection going to the loom, but no other connection like the left side. i did find this wire sticking out, the on seen at the top right of pic 3. Is this meant to connect to something and thats why the windows dont work when i open the right hand door?
Pic 4 you can see a black wire with a fuse coming from the back of the stereo and spliced into the loom going in behind the steering wheel. This poped out of the stereo the other day and blew my indicator fuses. why is this connected here?
Pic 5 is the back of the stereo where the back cable is connected at the bottom of the picture.
The last thing is in previous pictures where you told me to get the wire cutters out... I've done that and got rid of most of it. But the maximum windscreen defroster button was connected to this using one white cable to ground, and a red cable into the mess. Ive taken this out and have no idea where i would rewire it.
Another problem i had yesterday was when i had the ignition on and the stereo on, the antenna came up (which is great as it didnt do it before) but if i press the 'windows up switch', the antenna lost power and started to go down, until i let go of the switch then came back up again.
I think im getting there, just really want to get it back to as close to factory as possible! thanks again for all the help!
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Rhyse30
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Oh and also, as i mentioned before, i dont have a red/yellow cable for the cigarette lighter, someone has ripped it out i think (there isnt one under the centre console/dash as far as i can find. If i wanted to wire one in, where could i wire it to? i have some red and white cables, Can i groud the white form the cigarette ground plug and wire the red wire from the positive on the lighter to a socket in the accessory socket? if so which one? if not, how would i wire it?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
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Brianmoooore
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The windows should work with the ignition on (power comes via the white/black wire to the blue relay) or with either of the front doors open (power comes via the red/yellow wire to the blue relay.
Passenger door switch will have a brown/blue wire (switches the blue relay) and a brown/purple wire for the interior light.
The brown/blue wire should also make an appearance at the driver's door switch, but the other wire will either be the same brown/purple wire for the interior light, or a brown/yellow wire if the car happens to be fitted with the interior light switch off delay module option.
Whether the brown/purple or the brown/yellow is connected to the switch, the other will be present and unused nearby. I can't make out much in the first two pics., but i suspect this is what you might have found.
Can't make out pic. 3 either, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't belong there!
More bodging in pic. 4. Remove and make good.
Pic. 5. Yet more bodging! The radio power supplies should come from a four pin section of the accessories socket. The OE BMW loom ended in bare wires for splicing to the radio of your choice, but aftermarket leads are readily available with a plug to fit the accessories socket on one end, and an ISO socket on the other.
The loom to the cigar lighter is part of the heater loom. The loom under the dash should connect to the heater loom at a round plug and socket with several pins, near the top left of the heater box. You should be able to see a medium sized red/yellow wire going into this plug, and a matching one coming out the other side, which should end up at the lighter.
Aerial goes down when you press a window switch???? Where does the white wire, that is stuck to the red wire from the back, end up? That's the control wire. Just disconnecting the red should make the aerial stay where it happens to be at the time.
If there are any wires you want identified, I need to know the main colour and the tracer colour.
Passenger door switch will have a brown/blue wire (switches the blue relay) and a brown/purple wire for the interior light.
The brown/blue wire should also make an appearance at the driver's door switch, but the other wire will either be the same brown/purple wire for the interior light, or a brown/yellow wire if the car happens to be fitted with the interior light switch off delay module option.
Whether the brown/purple or the brown/yellow is connected to the switch, the other will be present and unused nearby. I can't make out much in the first two pics., but i suspect this is what you might have found.
Can't make out pic. 3 either, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't belong there!
More bodging in pic. 4. Remove and make good.
Pic. 5. Yet more bodging! The radio power supplies should come from a four pin section of the accessories socket. The OE BMW loom ended in bare wires for splicing to the radio of your choice, but aftermarket leads are readily available with a plug to fit the accessories socket on one end, and an ISO socket on the other.
The loom to the cigar lighter is part of the heater loom. The loom under the dash should connect to the heater loom at a round plug and socket with several pins, near the top left of the heater box. You should be able to see a medium sized red/yellow wire going into this plug, and a matching one coming out the other side, which should end up at the lighter.
Aerial goes down when you press a window switch???? Where does the white wire, that is stuck to the red wire from the back, end up? That's the control wire. Just disconnecting the red should make the aerial stay where it happens to be at the time.
If there are any wires you want identified, I need to know the main colour and the tracer colour.
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Rhyse30
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Sorry for taking a while to reply. I had a quick look again at the wiring. Got my self a probe tester to see whats what. Had a bit of a shock yesterday when i followed the left over wires that used to be connected to the battery and that monstrosity of cable connection boxes and bodging under the glove box... No idea what kind of person had the car before me but he/she seems to like the 'la cucaracha' melody as i found the wire going to a set of horns behind the front bumper! Ill take the car apart this evening to identify the wires and their main colours and their tracer colors. Thanks again!
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Rhyse30
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after taking most of the wiring apart, here's what I found:
1. The windows work as they should when I open the pass door. The switch doesn't seem to work on the driver side (the switch it's self does as i swapped them and tested it). The only wire connecting to the driver side switch is the brown/purple. there is no other wire coming back from the switch like the brown/blue on the pass side, or the extra connecting coming from the switch on the pass side (another brown/blue).
2. The other problem was the interior light. the doors had no control over these which meant unless switched to the 'off' position, it was constantly on. the wires from the interior light come down through the pass side A pillar and then back under the sills and under the rear seat. no connection at all coming from these wires an their way. There is on the pass side and driver side a brown/purple wire coming from the glove box inspection panel/steering column area. If i connect this wire (driver side) to the switch, has no effect. If i connect the brown/purple wire on the pass side to the brown/blue connection box coming out of the door switch, the power windows constantly work.
the brown/blue wire with the connection box that comes out of the switch has a positive feed coming through, door switch on or off.
I will try and take some details pictures and explain my self better later tonight if the weather permits. Sorry it might not seem very clear atm.
Any ideas welcome thought!
1. The windows work as they should when I open the pass door. The switch doesn't seem to work on the driver side (the switch it's self does as i swapped them and tested it). The only wire connecting to the driver side switch is the brown/purple. there is no other wire coming back from the switch like the brown/blue on the pass side, or the extra connecting coming from the switch on the pass side (another brown/blue).
2. The other problem was the interior light. the doors had no control over these which meant unless switched to the 'off' position, it was constantly on. the wires from the interior light come down through the pass side A pillar and then back under the sills and under the rear seat. no connection at all coming from these wires an their way. There is on the pass side and driver side a brown/purple wire coming from the glove box inspection panel/steering column area. If i connect this wire (driver side) to the switch, has no effect. If i connect the brown/purple wire on the pass side to the brown/blue connection box coming out of the door switch, the power windows constantly work.
the brown/blue wire with the connection box that comes out of the switch has a positive feed coming through, door switch on or off.
I will try and take some details pictures and explain my self better later tonight if the weather permits. Sorry it might not seem very clear atm.
Any ideas welcome thought!
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Morat
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ROFL that is pricelessRhyse30 wrote: No idea what kind of person had the car before me but he/she seems to like the 'la cucaracha' melody as i found the wire going to a set of horns behind the front bumper!
I had a good laugh at that one!best of luck.
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Praise the Lard... and pass the dripping!
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Rhyse30
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Haha! ye it came as a bit of a surprise to me!
Still not having much luck. windows work fine with the ignition on, and are fine when passenger side door is open (doesnt work with just driver side door).
Interior light doesn't work at all. I followed the interior light wires down the passenger A pillar (3 wires) and they then go back through the door sill and connect to 3 different color wires that carry on to the boot. Where do the interior light wires that connect to the door pins go? I saw on ebay some door pins with single and double connection pins. Does this make a difference as i only have the one on both sides but with 2 wires connected to the one pin on the passenger side and one wire to one pin on the driver side.
Hope I haven't confused any of you with that.
Any help again, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Still not having much luck. windows work fine with the ignition on, and are fine when passenger side door is open (doesnt work with just driver side door).
Interior light doesn't work at all. I followed the interior light wires down the passenger A pillar (3 wires) and they then go back through the door sill and connect to 3 different color wires that carry on to the boot. Where do the interior light wires that connect to the door pins go? I saw on ebay some door pins with single and double connection pins. Does this make a difference as i only have the one on both sides but with 2 wires connected to the one pin on the passenger side and one wire to one pin on the driver side.
Hope I haven't confused any of you with that.
Any help again, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
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Brianmoooore
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Does either of the interior lights work when you turn them on at the switch on the light?
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Rhyse30
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It used to until a week ago (think i might have disconnected something and i think i know where i did it). but the interior light used to have constant power in the door open position even though it was closed