My 320ise S62.

Moderator: martauto

User avatar
GermanGorilla
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:00 pm

Wed May 29, 2013 9:26 am

Hi,

The ''Luk'' pattern 850 Manual Clutch
use to be available via GSF at approx
225/250 at Trade.

As its thew same Clutch in the 850 Csi
then it will hold all you require and the
sprung disc will assist with Gearbox Chatter.

BMW S62 Shells are approx 90/95.00 from
the dealer and much the same from the
Factors.

But be careful as there are ''Blue'' and ''Red''
versions.
The last set i purchased were all blue, yet some
maintain that its Blue for the lower and Red upper.

Others attain that its Red for Warmer climates and
Blue for colder.
Bit of a strange one.

std S62 Bearings will go very quickly once you start
regualy creeping past 7250 rpm and extended
periods or prolonged stints at 7500 rpm
they can be gone very quickly indeed.
Even the coated Race versions are prone to wear
rapidly when 7500 is used as the Rev cut.

Have you tried moving the car in revearse and
then with car costing rearwards select first and
let out clutch, if its a Big end you will hear it then
ok.

If its Shells are you going ''engine'' out or attempt
while engine in ?
Persoanlly I would have the engine out and
clean eveything as if the shells are gone then
you will have oil contamination which is very
hard to clean properly in situ.

Its all the oil lines, cooler, oit filtre housing that
will have dopsits of the ''white metal filings''
which require proper cleaning.

On the positive side better now like this, than at full
chat on some Track !!!!

Regards,

The Gorilla
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Wed May 29, 2013 11:46 pm

Thanks Gorilla. I reckon I'm pretty set on a Luk 850 clutch with suitable custom single mass flywheel. :mrgreen:

Retail, shells come out at £19.10 each, rod bolts are £8.35 a piece. With sump gaskets, oil filter etc the parts bill is £500 and a bit, plus oil. I've read lower = blue shells, upper = red. Interesting though! I'll look into that further. :)

I reckon now would be a good (if a little frustrating) time to do the shells even if they're not shot. I could see the job being put off until the end of summer if the car's up and running, which could potentially be a crankshaft too far into the future! 8O :D As you say, better to be replacing shells than an engine! I'll crack on and get them done in the next couple of weeks, then they'll be done. :D I'm not convinced there'll be enough clearance to hear the end knock with your reverse-1st gear trick TBH, but I'll give it a try! 8) I read a thread on one of the M5 forums the other day with pretty much identical symptoms (the owner was also convinced it was det). It was big ends. :)

I was set on doing the job without having the engine out again TBH. I'm short of garage space at the moment, and would prefer to use an engine stand, which I've not got. If the shells (I'll have a quid on it just being one which is a problem) are missing a lot of material, I'll not have a lot of choice but to take it out and give it a thorough clean. I *think* I'll suck it and see. :)

Cheers! Dave. :D
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:03 pm

So, a quick up-date..
The sump is off, and the big ends have been examined.
I've found where the noise was coming from. winkeye It's a bit of a weird one. All the bearing surfaces are in pretty decent condition, and the crank journals are completely unmarked. Here's one of the worst:

Image

Strangely, although the bearing surface of the shells are in good condition, three have spun properly. One has spun around 4mm. This is what I was greeted with when I removed number 7 end cap (this is the outside of the spun bearing):

Image

And number 7 cap:

Image

Number 3 cap and shell:

Image

It seems a bit odd that there are no signs of friction on the bearings to explain them spinning. :?

More later. I need a beer! :mad:

Cheers. Dave. :)
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:35 pm

Well well... In preperation for bolting it all back together with the new big end shells, O-rings and wot not which I ordered, I had a dull day yesterday cleaning stuff.
Sump:

Image

scavenge pipes (which the solenoid valves in the sides of the sump control) re-installed:

Image

Baffle plates re-installed:

Image

There's a couple of oil pipes which protrude upwards from the sump into the block, the smaller of which (as it says in BMW's literature) is easily bent as the sump's removed (pictured on the left below). There was always going to be one part which had to come from Germany. This was it. Luckily, it straightened pretty easily. :)

Image

So a box of parts arrived this morning including two bags of shells. I went with the blue/red combination which is listed on real OEM and TIS in the end. At a glance, the only difference between the two is that the part numbers are on opposite ends of the shells. The size listing appears to be the same.
Unfortunately, whoever packed the two bags appears to have a problem with counting beyond five, as there are only 6 shells in one of the bags. :roll: Luckily, I can get one shell for tomorrow morning. Not so luckily, the remaining shell won't get with me 'till Tuesday. Which is total arse.
On the up-side, I've got a mate's 40th to go and get smashed at tomorrow, so I can happily write off Sunday watching World Superbikes with an enormous hangover. :?

Cheers. Dave. :?
User avatar
flashBE
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:00 pm

Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:00 pm

I just took the time to completely read your thread, impressive work!
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:55 pm

Cheers flashBE! :)

Well well. This is what's in the boot of my car.
A box full of this:

Image

And these empty boxes and gaskets:

Image

If I'm honest, I couldn't be arsed to take pictures of the big ends going in, but they're in, along with various O-rings and a new oil pump drive tensioner. winkeye

So, has the knock gone? Has it f**k. :roll:

On the upside..... Nothing.
(Although the shells had spun, so as said, it could well have gone very pear shaped at some point.)

I guess I'll be having a proper look at the vanos next.
Can anyone reccommend a cheap boroscope which'll fit down my plug holes?

Cheers. D.
:roll:
User avatar
ajay
E30 Zone Camper
E30 Zone Camper
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:00 pm

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:23 pm

Dave a cheap borescope will be no good, if you want to get a proper look inside your engine a karlsrorz scope with light source will do the trick iv'e used one with a 6mm camera ( they do come smaller too)straight down a spark plug hole, 360 deg control really good light and a medical quality picture. Google Inlec hire,they cost £250 per week but they will do a 3 day hire for £150, they courier to your door and collect after. Its not cheap but your hiring a 6k bit of kit. If your interested i have some video clips of a chp engine i look after ( we had to video inside the engine and send the vid clips abroad) using a karlstorz scope, let us know. Cheers
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:15 pm

Cheers Ajay. I was looking at the cheap boroscopes thinking that they wouldn't be much cop. I'll have a think about hiring one versus the price of parts I'd need to tear the engine down if it comes to it.
It feels like my car's slowly reaming my anus at the moment. If it gets much worse I'll probably be finding the need for a second use for it! 8O

Cheers. :thumb:
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:43 pm

I got a (not especially good) recording of the noise today.
Any informed suggestions welcomed! :

Image
Rav335uk
E30 Zone Meets/Events Team
E30 Zone Meets/Events Team
Posts: 27985
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Mad mad mad
Contact:

Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:25 pm

That does not sound good.
Image
If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
CR24v??? Where's it all gone?? LOL
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:01 am

I've got to say, it's not exactly what I'd hoped for Rav!
DanThe
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 28641
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Staffs
Contact:

Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:44 am

davethegoat wrote:I got a (not especially good) recording of the noise today.
Any informed suggestions welcomed! :
Where was the microphone? Sounds more like a loose engine mount than anything to do with the crank
turk
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth

Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:49 am

I had suggested it sounded like the self adjusting clutch springs clicking about when I first heard it. But as it only happens under light throttle.

Do u have a mic you can position in the engine bay? Also, might be worth chatting to you local rolling road guys to see if they'll let you run the car gently on the rollers while you have a good ol listen!
S54, S62, S65 & S85 Plug & Play loom/Ecu Kits
Sump Baffles
Engine Conversion Kits/Parts
TrackDays
Image
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:00 am

Hi Dan,
I checked the engine mounts, bell hosing bolts etc today, hoping I'd left something/something had become loose. No dice. :? That would have been brilliant though! winkeye The mike (iPhone) was taped to the ash tray lid in front of the gear stick in the first clip.

I then taped the "mike" in the engine bay, on the nearside inner arch. There wasn't a ton of difference, but if anything the noise was a touch quieter, though perhaps being masked by more engine noise.
Then, I taped it at the rear of the engine bay where the battery used to live, at the rear of the engine bay. As I reversed down my driveway, I heard a bit of noise as I slipped the clutch, so I took the drive train slack out a few times (at around 46 seconds on the following clip). I did the same when I did a three point turn (at around 1 minute 40).
As well as the noise sounding familiar, it was also louder with the mike in this position:

Image

So, now I have the gearbox sitting on my workbench. The Dual mass flywheel has somewhere around 10mm of free play ("measured" at the outermost part of the flywheel). I believe this is about right? It also takes almost no effort to move through that 10mm though, and makes a metallic noise at the end of its travel, which I believe to be less right??! (I have litterally zero expierience with dual mass flywheels!)

As I said, the gearbox is sitting on my workbench. I drained the oil from it, which with the exception of maybe a dozen tiny (I'm talking half a mm or less) metal fragments, seemed fine, though thin and smelly!

I guess while the 'box is out, I might as well have a peek inside to check that nothing's amiss. What do you reckon?!

Cheers Turk. I thought about a dyno, but didn't really want to drive it too far. I also thought about getting someone at the controls trying to replicate the noise by giving it some brake pressure with the car running on axle stands. Unfortunately the gearbox was half way out by then!

Cheers! Dave. :)
turk
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth

Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:52 am

[youtube][/youtube]
S54, S62, S65 & S85 Plug & Play loom/Ecu Kits
Sump Baffles
Engine Conversion Kits/Parts
TrackDays
Image
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:57 pm

So, after looking at clutch/flywheel options for ages I decided to take the (so I thought) easy/quickest option of a standard sized clutch and "off the shelf" single mass flywheel. The flywheel I ordered was in stock, so would be with me within a week. A Helix sprung hub clutch would have taken a few weeks to get manufactured, so I ordered a Clutchmasters FX250 clutch from the U.S, a bad review of which I'm yet to come accross.
http://clutchmasters.com/shop/?page=sho ... AppID=1816
So that was that sorted. Except it wasn't. I was informed near the end of the week that the flywheel was in fact not in stock, and would take around 3 weeks to be made. FFS! Give me a break! :roll:
I've got a few other boring bits and pieces to get on with in the mean time at least.

Cheers. Dave. :mad:
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:56 pm

Well well. It turned out that the flywheel was in stock after all! :mad: It's made by TTV, came via Co-Ordsport (who have been really good to deal with) and is nice!:

Image

Here's the back side of it. It weighs 7kg, compared to the stock dual mass' 15kg:

Image

Also, this arrived:

Image

Here's another backside shot. :wink: :

Image

It's a bit of a funny old design, but they apparently give good modulation, last well and don't slip. Ding dong.

Here's the pressure plate:

Image

I got hold of these too. They're hanging out with a clutch aligning tool which came along for the ride with the clutch from the States. There was also a clutch release bearing which evidently, was camera shy:

Image

Seeing as I'd drained the gearbox oil, I got some of this (not awefully cheap) Royal Purple Synchromax. It's meant to be the dog's doo dahs.

Image

I grabbed enough time today to get the gearbox bolted up. It might even be running again somewhere into the weekend.

Cheers. Dave. :D
Last edited by davethegoat on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
turk
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth

Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:03 pm

Do u have some pix of the pressure plate? Im mucho curiosso!
S54, S62, S65 & S85 Plug & Play loom/Ecu Kits
Sump Baffles
Engine Conversion Kits/Parts
TrackDays
Image
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:06 pm

Ha! I thought I'd put them in there. Duh. It must be the heat! :mad: I'll pop them in above in a tick..
I didn't get any pics of the pressure plate face, but there's nothing particularly trick looking in there. :)
Rav335uk
E30 Zone Meets/Events Team
E30 Zone Meets/Events Team
Posts: 27985
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Mad mad mad
Contact:

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:41 pm

I have a TTV flywheel too Dave, nice peice of kit. :D
Image
If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
CR24v??? Where's it all gone?? LOL
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:04 am

Seeing as it's been ages since I updated this, I thought I would, erm, update.
Rav, yep, the TTV flywheels are nice! It's worth shopping around for them though. I could have paid an extra £120 at least for mine. So, where was I... Ah yes. I fitted the flywheel and clutch, re-fitted the 'box, fired it up, drove it up the road, and......... you'll never guess! Yeah baby! Noise still there! 8O
I posted on one of the M5 forums and got a few helpful suggestions, checked a few things, then (as a couple of peeps had suggested it could be a gearbox bearing), whipped the 'box out again and made it look like this:

Image

There was nothing obviously wrong, so after getting a gearbox specialist to have a look "Uh, yeah, maybe, dunno", I popped it back together. It was all pretty straightforward, though there are a couple of bits and pieces to watch out for which I'll go into later if anyone's interested.
I'd noticed a touch of wear on the input shaft before, but have seen worse running with no ill effects. Anyway, I decided to space the pilot bearing back onto a fresh bit of shaft ( :wink: ) as I thought there was a (tiny) chance the free play could be setting off some sort of resonance and cause this to happen (but a bit faster, obviously!):

Image

so I made this, which goes in the 'ole before the bearing:

Image

Anyway, in the 'box went in again. And. The. Noise. Was. Still. There. Not a big surprise, as I'd not really found much.

Anywho, the way I've been describing the noise is that if it was in ye olden days on a straightforwarde engine, I would have been sure it was det, so I did what I should have done in the first place, pulled a coil plug off and drove it. When number 5 is pulled, there's no rattle. I swapped number 5 coil, plug and injector and the rattle was still on number 5. So, I have a problem with number 5 cylinder! :roll:
I've read a couple of proper horror stories as far as piston/cylinder wall damage, but I'm rather hoping the block's not goosed. Having run it with the breather pipes straight to atmosphere, it doesn't appear to be a heavy breather at least. I did find a loose throttle body nut when swapping injectors and wot not the other day. Some monkey's been there before, but it would appear to have been a good while ago.
I'll update this when I know more, but in the mean time, I have a box in the boot which looks like this:

Image

and an engine which looks like this:

Image

Cheers. D. :)
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:47 pm

Cheers Will. I elected to steam in there and remove the head.
For a minute, it looked like this:

Image

As I said, I've read a few horror stories of epic disaster, and was fearing the worst. Was this the kind of thing you were thinking of Will?:

Image

Quite handily, although that's an S62 piston, it isn't from my engine! :mrgreen:

What I found was a little bit.. ok, a whole lot less dramatic. :D
Here ya go:

Image

Yipee! :banana:

The head gasket has failed between cylinders 5 & 6, and has just started to fail between 6 & 7. The head is very slightly marked, so I'll get that lapped. The block is thankfully, as near as fu*k is to swearing, perfect. Bloody phew! :D
Seeing as the other head has done a very similar amount of work, I popped that off too. The gasket had just started to fail between cylinders 2 & 3. There's a small mark on the block, which I'll spend around four seconds on with some scotchbrite and it'll be sorted:

Image

I suspect this engine's had the inlets walnut blasted at some point:

Image

Now my boot looks like this (I've got some parts cleaning to do)

Image

Here's where the rear seat should be:

Image

And here's my work bench:

Image

So that's where I'm at! A lot happier than I thought I'd be!

Cheers! Dave. :D
turk
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth

Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:08 pm

Great news news Dave. Now strap it all back together and drive to me and we'll dyno the bastard!!! winkeye
S54, S62, S65 & S85 Plug & Play loom/Ecu Kits
Sump Baffles
Engine Conversion Kits/Parts
TrackDays
Image
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:38 pm

That's the low compression model then Will? 8O
When I was a diesel fitter, one of our tippers came in with a misfire. No rattles, just misfiring on number 6 (on a straight 6). After a bit of investigation I had the heads off and noticed that number 6 piston was in the wrong place. Turned out that the crank had broken, turned a bit, and locked on the break! New crank, job done! :D

Here are some more bits:

Image

I've spent a (fair) bit of time making some bits of a big piece of aluminium into a lot of small pieces:

Image

I'll put some more pics up when my "DTG" heads are finished.

Cheers! Dave. :)
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:22 pm

Number 1 head is nearly finished. Well, the inlets anyway.. I can understand why the pro's charge large for doing this sort of thing. It takes bloody ages! :mad: :

Image

Image

Cheers. :)
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:55 pm

I had a bit of a pick at the first head today. I reckon the inlet ports are finished! :D There's not a great deal of difference to the previous pictures but I thought I'd put these on here anyway:

Image

Image

Just the exhaust ports to do now, then I can get on with the second head! :D

Cheers.
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:22 pm

It's been a while. Again!
I finished cleaning up the ports a bit ago. If the engine was going to have forced induction, (or if I was doing them for someone else) I would have done more to the exhaust ports. Being coated in carbon, I wasn't able to get a decent "before" pic, but I was a little surprised at how ugly they come out of the factory. Anyway, after:

Image

I also cleaned these:

Image

Got the head faces lapped:

Image

Ordered some stuff (some of which wasn't here for a photo as it was busy emigrating from Germany):

Image

I also ground the valves in, and now one of the heads is now back together. Woohoo!:

Image

Image

It'll be good to get the buggers bolted back on! :mad:

Cheers. Dave. :D
turk
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth

Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:38 pm

Good stuff Dave! Looking awesome!
S54, S62, S65 & S85 Plug & Play loom/Ecu Kits
Sump Baffles
Engine Conversion Kits/Parts
TrackDays
Image
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:18 pm

Cheers Turk. :D
I got the second head finished today. 8) It looks pretty similar to the other head, so I didn't bother taking a photo. :)
I also popped the oil pump apart. I like the elegantly simple design of oil pumps. They're cool. 8) I'd just started putting it back together and realised that I hadn't taken a pic, so I took an especially cr@p one! :roll: :

Image

It's back together now. Cheers. :)
turk
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth

Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:44 pm

I have a spare pump if u need any 'spares' for any reason. look quite tidy tho :) Hows the shaft? they're know to shear.
S54, S62, S65 & S85 Plug & Play loom/Ecu Kits
Sump Baffles
Engine Conversion Kits/Parts
TrackDays
Image
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:33 pm

It all looks fine in there matey. I'm guessing the shafts break just behind the drive sprocket retaining nut. There's a decent stress raiser there for overtightened nuts/siezed pumps! Mine, right now, is unbroken.... 8O

Cheers.
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:59 pm

Well then. I've got a bit more done.

I did a bit of this:

Image

Then I had a bit of a think and sorted the cam timing. BMW's instructions make it seem like building a space ship and flying to Jupiter would be an easier option, but in fact, it's really not as complex as it first appears. (I'm saying this before I've fired it up.... Duh!! 8O )
So, TDC on number one cylinder. Cams locked (with the stainless cap screws poking out of the front cam caps). Turn vanos wheels clockwise. Pop vanos cover on. Tighten vanos wheel bolts. That's it! timed up! (Ok, I've simplified it a little. :wink: ):

Image

More soon! Cheers! :D
davethegoat
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:00 pm

Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:55 pm

It's getting closer to fire it up time! I seem to be doing my best to hold things up though. :mad: I cleaned the throttle bodies ready to fit and found that they looked like this (the photo of which I've had a couple of different go's at rotating and given up):

Image

In similar style to the inlet ports, they've had some attention in the most important places, but as you can see, there's a pretty substantial ridge where the machining stops and the plain casting starts, as well as a couple of smaller ridges.
I planned to pop the butterflies out (which were minging), give them and the bodies a clean, and bolt them on. After an argument with myself though, a bit more than cleaning happened. Now they look like this:

Image

Now they're back together, nice and clean. :wink:

Image

The bottom of the engine's back together, I played swordfights with the headers and re-fitted them, fitted the steering shaft (managing to get my hand fairly firmly stuck between two headers) and the crossmember/steering rack and control arms are back where they should be. Smart!

Cheers. D. :D
Post Reply