Power steering or manual?

Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:55 pm

Thinking of not bothering with power steering in my m52 swap as it seems really light so would it be possible to modify the power rack and remove pipes etc or would it be best to get a non p/s rack or modify a e46 rack?
Just wondering if anyone has done any of this?[/i][/quote]

Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:04 pm

Not really sure but if you non pas, I have a good manual rack and coupling here.

Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:17 pm

If you're used to modern cars with PAS forget it - manual racks are for masochists.

Just fit an E46 or similar rack - job jobbed

Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:38 pm

Is a non power rack really heavy?
Think someone mentioned modifying a 46 rack in a post before.
Still undecided at mo so weighing up options and opinions.

Post Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:41 pm

Using a power rack with no assist is just retarded, invented by differs, you will hate the car!

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:45 am

johnmaccow wrote:Is a non power rack really heavy?
Think someone mentioned modifying a 46 rack in a post before.
Still undecided at mo so weighing up options and opinions.

My previous E30 came with a manual rack, at speed it was fine but it was woeful when trying to park or maneuver at slow speeds - the first job I had done was fit a standard power rack.

If you're used to driving stuff with manual racks then you might be able to live with it, but if you're used to driving cars with PAS - which lets face it is pretty much every car made in the last 15 Years or so - then you will tire of the manual rack very quickly.

The E46 conversion is very popular and rightly so.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:48 am

I use a manual rack on my m30. But it's not a daily just a fun turd.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:06 am

They are going to be heavier but will give more "feel".

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:34 am

Sod it il look for a e46 rack i think. Will keep the e30 one for now. Cant remember where i saw the post about removing the valves etc in the e46 rack to make it non p/s.
May have been driftworks i think.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:49 am

I don't run PAS on my Touring. On a PAS rack with bolts in, its a real workout for slow speed maneuvers!

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:25 am

I was thinking of doing it more so to get it on road quicker and tested as dont have p/s pump for the m52 and only have the e30 hoses on the rack at the mo.
If i can get away with a m52 p/s pump and e30 hoses for now and have to mount the fluid reservoir elsewhere for now til i can get some made up it will help a lot.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:32 pm

Had a standard manual rack in my first E30 and it didn't bother me at all tbh, except being hopelessly slow. But same can be said for the E30 standard PAS too.

E46 rack ftw

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:57 pm

DanThe wrote:Using a power rack with no assist is just retarded, invented by differs, you will hate the car!

Differ here

. I've recently disassembled, de-PAS'd (removed internal PAS seals) and throughly greased an E36 rack. I fitted this to my E30 "differ" a month or two ago. I've made a PAS rack as much of a manual rack as you could get. In my eyes there is no difference to what I have now compared to if I got a quicker ratio rack and pinion for a manual E30 rack.

I bought the car with a disconnected E30 rack so this in itself was an upgrade compared to how I bought it. The de-PAS E36 rack should be harder work than the E30 rack due to the quicker rack needing more effort, but due to removing the seals and properly greasing it, it feels about the same. It's a pain to park as you would expect and it obviously will take more effort at slow speeds.

I bumped into my MOT tester last week and he did mention that he now has to fail cars that are suspected of having PAS from factory. I have no clue if this is correct but it's definitely worth checking before going down the same route as me.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:51 pm

Ive driven E30's on track with E36 rack and the PAS parts removed/rack greased, there is no benefit to it, I completely disagree with the argument about 'gives you more feel' they just feel overly heavy so much that they remove a good amount of actual feel.

The real reason people want to remove PAS is because its easier and cheaper than making it work properly.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:36 pm

One point to consider with a M5x conversion is that if you remove the power steering rack you will need to remove the pump as well, then you will have to find a shorter serpentine belt, arrange the belt route so that the tensioner works properly and has enough wrap around the remaining pulleys.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:52 pm

DanThe wrote:Ive driven E30's on track with E36 rack and the PAS parts removed/rack greased, there is no benefit to it, I completely disagree with the argument about 'gives you more feel' they just feel overly heavy so much that they remove a good amount of actual feel.

The real reason people want to remove PAS is because its easier and cheaper than making it work properly.

Exactly my reasoning and there's nothing wrong with that. My rack was £10 on ebay and the other cost of fitting it was part of a grinder disc

. £10 spent and a massive improvement on what I previously had, I can deal with the heaviness so it's pure win.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:02 pm

Well there's always one ,Dan ain't there.

The PAS on my Cab works fine but personally speaking I much
prefer the "feel" without it So in between MOT's I just remove the belt
and keep it in the boot.

It's true that a car fitted with PAS will fail the MOT, if not working as it should, or has the belt removed. Don't find parking a problem either.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:08 pm

gooner1 wrote: It's true that a car fitted with PAS will fail the MOT, if not working as it should, or has the belt removed. Don't find parking a problem either.

Power steering was optional on E30s, so converting a power system to manual " in such a way that there is no adverse effect on the steering" will not fail a MOT test, (assuming the tester knows the manual).
However, doing what you are doing gives an insurance company just the kind of get out they like in the event of a claim where your car is inspected.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:23 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:
gooner1 wrote: It's true that a car fitted with PAS will fail the MOT, if not working as it should, or has the belt removed. Don't find parking a problem either.
Power steering was optional on E30s, so converting a power system to manual " in such a way that there is no adverse effect on the steering" will not fail a MOT test, (assuming the tester knows the manual).
However, doing what you are doing gives an insurance company just the kind of get out they like in the event of a claim where your car is inspected.

Brian, the operative word in your post is "assuming". I have had the Cab both pass and fail without the belt.
Also, without going into details, if my car was inspected, then a new belt, still in the packaging, may well not be the only thing found in my boot.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:12 pm

Think il be going for the E46 rack, what linkage does it need? E46 or E30? Also does it need spacers?
Il be using it for track and going to work the odd time so a E46 rack would probably be best bet.
Will I need special pipes or will the E46 ones work ok?

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:18 pm

I got a rack from DanThe, E46 with custom pipes, i will be selling if your interested.

Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:41 pm

gooner1 wrote: Brian, the operative word in your post is "assuming".

That's why it pays to know the rules and regulations whenever dealing with officials passing judgement on things.
The MOT regs. are quite clear on this, and are also quite clear that in cases of doubt or ambiguity, then the presenter of the vehicle gets the benefit of the doubt.
It's not only MOT testers - this week I've crossed swords with a building inspector who failed a couple of fire escape windows because he was too **$%%?@ thick to release them, and I've lost count of the number of times that I've been told that you can't fit ordinary wall light switches in bathrooms!