1986 325i engine rebuild and motronic upgrade to 1.3

[Avinit4]

Hello people... Ive just done engine rebuild and motronic upgrade to 1.3 on my 1986 325i.
I have ignition lights but nothing happens when turn key fully, similar to what happens if the immobilisor hasnt been turned off.
Power gets to the starter motor and the solinoid is sending power to the coil when key turned fully so its not an imobilisor issue.
I've done everything on the wiki converting to motronic 1.3 page.
I'm starting to think that maybe the ECU I purchased has had the chip removed or possible some other ecu issue?
Any ideas would be most welcome? Cheers

[Speedtouch]

Which ECU have you fitted, e.g., 0 261 200 173, and does its lid show any signs of having been opened?

Also, have you checked the CPS:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... ion_Sensor

And the DME relay:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/DME

[Avinit4]

Ive fitted the 173 ECU and I dont recall seing any signs of having been opened.
Regards the CPS: My understanding is this would need checking if the engine was cranking but not starting, in my case the engine isnt cranking so not CPS problem?
I will check the DME, which is 1 of the 3 relays at end of the engine loom yes?
Thanks for you help speedtouch, its much appreciated.

[Speedtouch]

Yes, the DME (Main) relay is the white one, in the left of this pic:



The solenoid supplies power to the starter motor when the ignition key is turned, it does not supply power to the ignition coil.

I would check your engine-to-body earth strap, and ensure that all connections to the starter motor are correct.

Also check the notorious green wire behind the dashboard - the cause of many non-starting E30s!

[Grrrmachine]

I have ignition lights but nothing happens when turn key fully

Do you mean the engine isn't even cranking?

If it is cranking, have you got spark and fuel?

[Avinit4]

Nice one speedtouch, I will be checking them within the next hour, but I'm puzzled by the green wire you mentioned especially because I have a green wire that runs alongside the batery cable from the boot, but it doesnt join anything (I couldn't find another green wire to attach it to so left it)? I'm wondering if this is the same green wire your refering to because it reaches under the dash?
Grrrmachine: Yes mate the engine isn't cranking.

[Speedtouch]

The green wire runs behind the dashboard from the steering column, and often becomes unplugged, leading to the non-starting/cranking issue. If you remove the glovebox, you should be able to see it.

Also, see mattyb's thread - he had a similar problem with his conversion:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 78&start=0

[Grrrmachine]

Grrrmachine: Yes mate the engine isn't cranking.

If it won't even crank, then try it from the Diagnostic Plug using these instructions:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... Plug_Start

[daimlerman]

Starter signal wire is black/yellow,and there's a plug/socket on this wire behind the glovebox to enable an auto-box start inhibit circuit to be installed....

[Avinit4]

Speedtouch: I've done DME relay test but still not cranking.
I read mattyb's thread but his engine cranked and wouldn't start, then idling issue so not same problem as mine.
I didn't need to remove glovebox because I also had to do untold welding in bulkhead/floorpan so havent put it back yet. However, I still couldn't see the green wire your refering to? I've taken pic of what I see (if link works)
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr30 ... 8fea86.jpg

If it is the Green wire would this also prevent the starter from working using via the diagnostic plug pins 11 and 14? I ask because I just tried this and starter didn't crank? If this geen wire would also cause this then I'm thinking I need to find and check it because might well be the problem?

Grrrmachine: Have just tried from Diagnostic Plug but still didnt crank, Have also checked conections and earths. I'm hoping its the green wire mentioned above?

[BenHar]

Are you sure the connections on the starter are correct? They often get confused.

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... ter#Wiring

Ben

[Avinit4]

daimlerman: Will check that as well cheers

[Grrrmachine]

If it didn't crank from the diagnostic plug then it won't be the green wire (which feeds the ignition coil) or the black/yellow wire (which goes to the ignition key). It'll either be the connections on the starter itself, as Ben says, or a battery issue.

[Avinit4]

Have just checked bens link and saw my statermotor was diferent so took pic to show
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr30 ... 1c0006.jpg
However when loading pic I noticed mine has a spade connection at bottom so now I'm thinking this is the problem.
My old motronic 1.0 engine loom had 1 big red cable and one spade conection (the live from battery is direct so not from engine loom)
My new motronic 1.3 has 1 big red cable, 1 spade conection (these 2 together from loom) and 1 more black cable with a small stud connection. This I connected to the Starter itself as it reached and fitted perfect over the stud.
The pic shows what I done.
Now I'm thinking I need to remove black cable I put on starter, replace the stud connection with a spade connection and attach it to the bottom spade conection on the solinoid...... Yes/no?

[Avinit4]

Not quite how I thought but I got there in the end: She cranks over now but doesnt start...lol... I think its the fuel pump because I never heard the pump engage when ignition turned on so had a look at relay and discovered its a ford one? The pin numbers match up anyhows I have another bmw relay with pin numbers matching the ford one and intend trying that one when battery is charged up fully If that doesnt work I'l try the bridging stuff etc.
Anyhows, Thankyou people for your help because I would never have got her cranking over without it so very much appreciated

[Grrrmachine]

Fuel pump isn't supposed to work with ignition on, only when cranking.

[Avinit4]

Oh opps.... must be my memory as its been 8 months since I last heard her running..... Cheers

[Avinit4]

hello again people..... I have new problem so please tell me if I should start another thread as opposed to writing here?
New problem is fuel pump not working when engine cranking. I've bridged the DME relay but made know difference.
With the DME bridge left in place I then bridged the fuel pump relay pins 30 & 87 and easily heard the fuel pump whirring away
Following the wiki Troubleshooting page I then tested pins 85 and 86 of the fuel pump relay socket to ensure power is reaching them.
The result is relay socket 86 is getting power but 85 isn't? The wiki page doesn't cover this result because I pressume both either have power or both don't have power?
Pin/socket 87 on the DME is getting power.

So I'm seeking help for why pin 85 on fuel pump socket isnt getting power?

[Speedtouch]

Did you try doing the test with the DME relay in place and the engine cranking?

[Avinit4]

Have just tried with DME Relay in place and engine cranking.
Same result: 86 gets power 85 doesn't!

[Avinit4]

I guess this no power to pin 85 is a problem no ones encountered before, sounds about right...... Talk about falling at the last fence....... Its took me 8 months full on to get to here so this unknown problem has done me..... bla bla

[Speedtouch]

Not necessarily; have you checked out what pins 85 and 86 do?

E.g., if they are the relay coil, then one side will need to be at ground (0V) while the other is a switched +12V.

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/DME

According to the Wiki, pin 86 is at +12V, while 85 is switched to ground via the ECU.

Worth checking the continuity between this pin 85 and pin 36 of the ECU, to ensure the wire between them is OK.

[Grrrmachine]

Avinit, can you confirm you're getting spark when cranking? If the DME is switching and you're not getting spark either, then it's most likely that the Crank Position Sensor isn't sending its signal to the ECU.

[Avinit4]

Speedtouch: I thought I found out what fuel pump relay pin 85 does but it conflicts with what youv'e said, I think
My thoughts are/were: pin 85 has a brown/green cable that enters engine loom. Pin out number 3 on ECU has a brown/green cable and is the Fuel pump relay control. So i was thinking to 1st test for power as it leaves ECU.
If power then must be break in continuitybetween ecu to fuel pump relay and if no power leaving ecu then?
However, if I understand you correctly your saying I should check continuity between DME Relay pin 85 & ECU pinout 36 because this switches fuel pump relay pin 85 from ground to live?


Grrrmachine: I can confirm power is getting to the coil but havent checked for spark because fuel pump not working so thought I needed to address this 1st? If ECU isn't recieving signal from CPS, would this in turn prevent the fuel pump from working?
My thanks to both of you for your help

[Grrrmachine]

Yep; if CPS isn't working then it takes out both fuel and spark.

Did your car have the two CPS sensors in the gearbox originally, or the one up front on the crank pulley?

[Avinit4]

originally two sensors in the gearbox

[Grrrmachine]

In that case, do your test for spark. If you haven't got spark then you need to make sure you installed the new CPS correctly, including plugging it into the correct socket on the loom - the CPS plug very often gets confused with the CID one.

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/CID

[jimbom30cab]

Bet I'm not the only one who read that and thought, sh1t I wish I was clever !

[Avinit4]

I had the CPS & CID sensors in wrong plugs..... I have spark now but still no fuel pump?
I tested pin 85 & 86 on the fuel pump relay again but still same with no power to pin 85?

[Avinit4]

Kool Willnz.... 2 days ago I'd have thought same as jimbom30cab but now I understand it...I think...

My issue is im not getting the ground signal from ECU pinout 3 too Fuel Pump Relay pin 85.
The CPS is working to some extent because I'm getting a spark, altho the gap between each spark seemed long to me?

I'l digest this info more tonight and hopefully get past this hurdle tomorrow?

[Speedtouch]

Speedtouch: I thought I found out what fuel pump relay pin 85 does but it conflicts with what youv'e said, I think
My thoughts are/were: pin 85 has a brown/green cable that enters engine loom. Pin out number 3 on ECU has a brown/green cable and is the Fuel pump relay control. So i was thinking to 1st test for power as it leaves ECU.
If power then must be break in continuitybetween ecu to fuel pump relay and if no power leaving ecu then?
However, if I understand you correctly your saying I should check continuity between DME Relay pin 85 & ECU pinout 36 because this switches fuel pump relay pin 85 from ground to live?

From what I understand of the Wiki guide, pin 36 of the ECU pulls pin 85 of the relay to ground, i.e., no power is supplied to it - this is instead put through pin 86 of the relay.

However, it would indeed be worth using a multimeter/continuity tester to verify that pin 85 of the relay is indeed connected to pin 36 of the ECU.

[Avinit4]

To quote wiki page:
First, remove the fuel pump relay from its socket, and link together pins 30 and 87 with a short length of wire. You should easily hear the fuel pump whirring away under the rear seat of your E30.

If you can, then you should ensure that power is reaching pins 85 and 86 of the fuel pump relay socket, by using a 12V 5W bulb. If power is present, then expect your fuel pump relay to be faulty, but if it's not then you need to find out why. Test for power on pin 87 of the DME relay.

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... Plug_Start


This is why I'm looking for power at pin 85

Anyhows, hopefully whatever the problem i'l work it out today??? Also, on re-reading Mattys thread I'm thinking I have fuel pipes wrong way round: Mine go from filter under servo to the little black regulator thing attached to fuel rail at front of engine........... And the return from bulkhead end of fuel pipe?
I know I'm soooooo close to having her running....

[Avinit4]

Yee ha..... thats sorted...... It was the fuel pipes round the wrong way..Derrrrr what am I like!

Have new problem, well not quite a problem, more a request for tips on removing the injector loom off the injectors?

Reason being: When engine started I discovered Injector 3 isn't seated properly so fuel jetting out all down my newly painted red engine block

The upshot being I need to get access to the injector so I can make sure its properly seated but I cant get to the little wire clips on the connector plugs and I dont want to force anything because odds are I'l break it!
Good old Haynes manual doesn't cover this at all so any advice tips on how I can sort this would be much appreciated fella's

[Grrrmachine]

You have to have very delicate fingers to get to the injector plugs, but that's pretty much the first to come off. Last time I did it I unbolted the FPR, took off the crankcase breather hose, undid all the injector plugs and pulled the loom through from the intake manifold (undo the plug under the manifold as well). Then undo the fuel pipes and the three(?) bolts holding the fuel rail to the intake manifold.

Then it just lifts out, with a little gentle prising. Simple as that