Engine judders when engaging 1st gear

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alexdejonghe
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:35 pm

Evening Messiahs,

I've an issue that I hope isn't terminal! Please help!

When the engine is warm & I'm stuck in traffic inching forward slowly I'm having real difficulty engaging first gear....unless I use very high revs when trying to engage first gear the car judders quite violently shaking the car from side to side....

It's only getting worse and the Mrs claims to have seen puddles appearing from the front of my car. With the bonnet up the base plate of the engine is wet with a watery/oily substance.

What's your thoughts? I hope it's just the slave or master cylinder issue as the wiki suggests

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Clutch

Thanks guys,
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Brianmoooore
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:48 pm

You have a leaking clutch slave cylinder by the sounds of it. If you let the reservoir empty completely, then you'll have a clutch that you can't disengage.
alexdejonghe
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:58 pm

Thanks Brian, appreciated. Relatively cheap fix.

A friend of mine with a 1986 316 has the same juddering on selection of first gear unless he uses very high revs; is that ALWAYS indicative/diagnostic of a failed slave cylinder Brian?

Thanks,
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Brianmoooore
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:11 pm

Not at all. Oil contamination of the clutch plate or bone dry splines on the gearbox input shaft will make a clutch judder, even if the hydraulics are in good condition.
Check the fluid level in the clutch reservoir to confirm that it is going down.
alexdejonghe
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:26 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:Not at all. Oil contamination of the clutch plate or bone dry splines on the gearbox input shaft will make a clutch judder, even if the hydraulics are in good condition.
Check the fluid level in the clutch reservoir to confirm that it is going down.
Will do, thanks again.
alexdejonghe
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:53 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:You have a leaking clutch slave cylinder by the sounds of it. If you let the reservoir empty completely, then you'll have a clutch that you can't disengage.
Two perhaps related problems are that when I depress the clutch changing between 1st & 2nd often ill end up crunching the gears...also, the clutch pedal takes an eternity to pop back up after being depressed...gear changes in the car are slow full stop! Does this tie in with the problem I described at the start of this thread in "juddering of the car" which you suggest may be due to worn clutch hydraulics?

Should the master & slave always be changed as a pair?
jmc330i
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:08 am

alexdejonghe wrote: Should the master & slave always be changed as a pair?
It's best practice to do them in pairs. Unless youre lucky (or you know one has been recently replaced) it will only be a short time before you're under the car again changing the cylinder you didn't do.
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:10 am

I had something very similar and one of these sorted it out

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=

They work well, I have one on both turds now, m20 also
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:23 am

Don't be temped (like I stupidly was) to go to the dealers for these parts. they cost a packet. Having just had a quick graze on Jim's link above; I'd go for that option. Whilst your there get a branded clutch hose as the old rubber one thats likely to be on the car will be tired and stretchy by now.

If by what you say of 'slow gear changes' feels more like vacant gear changes. It could be worn gear linkages. I've not changes these but have read on here what great improvements are gained from doing so. Bit of a fiddly job (as are the clutch cylinders) but might be worth looking into. I've not read it but here's a link for wiki.

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... ar_Linkage
alexdejonghe
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:03 pm

Thanks Jim & G-Bear....food for thought.

Bit of an update....though I doubt it'll leave me or any of you the wiser...

Oil flooding out the car (1993 320i cabrio) onto my driveway, dripping from the top (i.e closest to the engine) of the transmission, flowing to this point from the drivers side of the transmission...though difficult to get a good look, this appears to be where the slave cylinder is on the M20. The oil check light came on shortly afterwards. Perhaps the juddering in 1st gear may be engine oil oil contamination of the clutch plate as Brian suggests.

When you've had oil dripping from this point in the past gents what's been the cause?
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jamlid
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Post Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:55 pm

Are e30 clutches meant to be heavy to press? It feels like my old golfs but is have thought it would be easier with it being hydraulic?
G-Bear
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Post Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:18 pm

jamlid wrote:Are e30 clutches meant to be heavy to press? It feels like my old golfs but is have thought it would be easier with it being hydraulic?
The two E30 that I've owned haven't been that heavy on the clutch..
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jamlid
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Post Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:15 pm

Hmm.. My massive history shows a slave replaced in 2008 but shows "Clutch fluid reservoir empty" in 2010..

It's very likely the owner after replaced the master too then as I've not seen the levels go down at all and there's no wetness coming from either cylinder.


Could it be air trapped? It doesn't feel spongey at all.. just hard work.
alexdejonghe
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Post Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:33 pm

Update from mechanic...oil leaking from the front of the head gasket.....balls.

He's going to try and tighten it down next week to arrest the flow of oil and if that fails its gasket replacement time.

££££ :(
jmc330i
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Post Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:37 pm

alexdejonghe wrote:Update from mechanic...oil leaking from the front of the head gasket.....balls.

He's going to try and tighten it down next week to arrest the flow of oil and if that fails its gasket replacement time.

££££ :(
Headgasket or rocker cover gasket?
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alexdejonghe
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Post Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:55 pm

jmc330i wrote:
alexdejonghe wrote:Update from mechanic...oil leaking from the front of the head gasket.....balls.

He's going to try and tighten it down next week to arrest the flow of oil and if that fails its gasket replacement time.

££££ :(
Headgasket or rocker cover gasket?
He told me head gasket....two words that are never ever good to hear!

Roughly roughly, how long does it take to replace a head gasket on an M20 and how much is the replacement kit?....this'll give me an idea on total cost (my chap is excellent and only £25/ph)