Issues after fitting E46 M3 rack, mainly tracking I think?

[Green]

I've just finished fitting the M3 rack onto my E30 and had the tracking done on it so was expecting it to come back perfect. I don't think this really seems like the case.

My neighbour works at the garage I usually use and so he offered to take it to work and bring it back at the end of the day so I took him up on it, no problems there but when he bought it back he said he's got it as straight as he can but it's not the right rack so there's issues.. didn't really specify though.

I've driven it about 60 miles now down country lanes and 30 miles on the motorway and I'm convinced it isn't right.

Basically in a straight line it feels like I'm always fighting the steering slightly, it never wants to stay dead straight.
Cornering feels a little sketchy and tends to feels like it's skittering across the road!!

I have coilovers on the front and it is a bit low, but I've never had clearance issues before but now I can see it is rubbing on the adjusters with the inside of the tyre, this causes it to catch even when going around slight bends (that are practically a straight line) and squeel.

Really I'm asking, does the tracking look right to you at all? What else could be causing this.

To do the conversion I've used:

E46 M3 rack bolter on the inner subframe holes
E30 inner and outer tie rod ends


Here's a couple of images if that helps





I took these ones to show if it looks like I've a massive toe out issue but now I realise the wheel wasn't 100% dead on (because he wasn't able to get it straight?) but I'll include them if it helps

[Rav335uk]

Is that with the wheel dead straight???

[Rtaylor2208]

Is that with the wheel dead straight???

Never mind that Rav, is that a pair of birds frilly pink knickers hanging from the rear view mirror?

[harry_p]

I've no idea what's going on, but it looks miles out even by eye, letalone with proper measuring equipment.

looks like the guy hasnt got a clue!

Cant see how adjusting anything at all could make the tyre start hitting the collars on the coilovers. the wheel position to strut distance is fixed, so unless he's somehow bent the strut.

What is your whole setup?

what struts / coilovers?, what top mounts?, what lower arm bushes?, which rods and ends were used on the new rack?

[Motorhole]

Take some pics of the track rod adjustment so we can see what's going on from the amount of exposed thread on each side.

If the result is that you're toeing out a lot, you might still cause the tyre to contact the spring platform if it was close beforehand, due to the castor angle (i.e. the strut lying slightly backwards with regards to the wheel).

[Green]

The wheel looks like it is slightly turned to the left, although because the steering wheel wasn't set up to be straight it's hard to judge where to turn it so its dead straight!
The pink knickers are the misses and used as a fishy air freshened .

Maybe it was rubbing on the collar before and I never noticed, seems it is at its worst on full lock so I'm sure some small spacers should sort that?


My whole front set up is

Lemforder top mounts
Spax complete unit coil overs
E46 m3 rack
E30 inner tie rod
E30 outer tie rods
E30 lower arm and bushes

All lemforder bits were used there.

It was a manual rack before converting it over but I am running the rack unassisted. Before it drove straight and true with no pull or issues, I could let go and accelerate and brake in a straight line.

[Motorhole]

I wonder then if a further problem might be that it's been mounted in the manual rack holes, rather than the p/s mount holes?

[Kedge]

There is no reason I can see for the mechanic to have been unable to track that up.

The inner (rear) holes are the PS holes, the front are for manual steering, shouldn't make any real difference though.

One problem you might have in the future though is running the rach unassisted, I've always been told that that will kill a PAS rack very quickly.

[harry_p]

If the result is that you're toeing out a lot, you might still cause the tyre to contact the spring platform if it was close beforehand, due to the castor angle (i.e. the strut lying slightly backwards with regards to the wheel).

No, it won't.

the strut is a fixed part of the upright, the stub axel is fixed rigidly to the upright, the wheel is attached to the hub which has no movement to the upright at all other than rotational.

you could take a fully built up front leg with wheel and tyre still attached completely off the car and twist it and lean it any which way you like and if the tyre doesn't touch, it won't touch no matter which way you tilt or twist the strut.

If toe could cause the wheel to move relative to the strut, then no matter what the static geometry was it would rub as soon as you tired to turn any sort of corner.

[Motorhole]

No, it won't.

the strut is a fixed part of the upright, the stub axel is fixed rigidly to the upright, the wheel is attached to the hub which has no movement to the upright at all other than rotational.

you could take a fully built up front leg with wheel and tyre still attached completely off the car and twist it and lean it any which way you like and if the tyre doesn't touch, it won't touch no matter which way you tilt or twist the strut.

If toe could cause the wheel to move relative to the strut, then no matter what the static geometry was it would rub as soon as you tired to turn any sort of corner.

Ah of course. Yep absolutely right I was spouting utter b*ll*cks.

[DanThe]

The bloke clearly hasnt got a clue if he cant get the wheels pointing forwards and the steering wheel in the correct position, not only that but the outer ball joints should be the same distance from the rack ends, if not you will have uneven lock and one wheel will probably catch the bodywork.
Do you have solid wishbone bushes? If not then get some eccentric M3 bushes fitted

5mm spacers will help your strut clearance problems, I just so happen to have some custom E30 specific spacers being made right now

[gooner1]

One problem you might have in the future though is running the rach unassisted, I've always been told that that will kill a PAS rack very quickly.

Not true Dave, iv,e run mine with the PAS belt
detached for seven years now, no probs.

Belt goes back on for MOT,s only.

[Green]

I wonder then if a further problem might be that it's been mounted in the manual rack holes, rather than the p/s mount holes?

It was mounted in the PAS rack holes, I found out that there's about 5mm if that difference between the two racks so I couldn't fit the PAS rack in the old Non-PAS rack's holes!

Dan, new bushes were fitted in October and done less then 2000 miles since then so would prefer avoid changing them if possible, unless as a last resort that will solve the issue. Upon renewal though (most likely next year) I'll be fitting M3 bushes.

I've some cheapy halfrauds 3mm spacers about so I'll pop them on for the time being but may be interested, although I feel I need to space the rear wheels as well and also get longer well bolts as well... seems I am always buying all these new things to chase problems!!!

I'll get a couple of pics of the adjustible bits of the linkage later today to show the threads, I'm also possibly going to find another garage that can check it for free and provide a print out so I can take it back if it's off... which I'm sure it must be

[DanThe]

The M3 bushes are only £30 odd, and are the best you can fit, they will also last the car out and you will have to alter the wheel alignment again anyway, so the sooner you do it the sooner you get a better handling car

[Chris_B86]

5mm spacers will help your strut clearance problems, I just so happen to have some custom E30 specific spacers being made right now

Can you PM me details mate, price on 5mm and 10mm

[DanThe]

They will be about £9 each, 5mm only as 10mm will require hub-centric location, they fit the hub perfectly and are the same outer diameter as most discs

[Brianmoooore]

So what exactly is this characters reason for not being able to get the wheels pointing at least close to the same direction? The only thing relevant is how far the rod ends are screwed onto the track rods, and there should be plenty of thread to go either side of the correct position with plenty to spare.

[Green]

For the requested pics of the threads, where its worn I think that's where I originally set them in comparison with the old tie rods. I'm also concerned that after those 60 miles its cause my inner tyres to wear a hell of a lot more as I'm positive they wasn't that bad before I'll take the car to quick fit for a free check tomorrow and get them to do a print out if they can and take it back to be adjusted again.
This is the final straw with this garage now though, they haven't been able to do anything right for a while now and I just keep throwing them a bone





I'll update when I get it tested again...

[Brianmoooore]

Plenty of thread there to wind it in some more, so what's their excuse for sending it out with about 2" of toe out?

[Tan91]

It does make sense that if you have plenty of treat on your track rod ends and your wheels are point out.

Simply have them screwed in more which would bring the wheels in more wouldn't it lol?

Just to be sure check your tyres and stuff don't think it would make a difference but worth a check anyways.

Im pretty sure its the track rod ends though.

[capnmchl]

Plenty of thread there to wind it in some more, so what's their excuse for sending it out with about 2" of toe out?

This. It's not really excusable.

Turning one of those tie rods half a turn makes a big difference to the alignment when you look at it on a laser set up.

Methinks he was more interested in getting the steering wheel to point straight rather than getting the toe correct.

[Green]

Plenty of thread there to wind it in some more, so what's their excuse for sending it out with about 2" of toe out?

This. It's not really excusable.

Turning one of those tie rods half a turn makes a big difference to the alignment when you look at it on a laser set up.

Methinks he was more interested in getting the steering wheel to point straight rather than getting the toe correct.

If he was interested in getting the steering wheel straight he did a poor job of that as well (Yes, that is with the wheels "straight")



I've booked it in tomorrow at a different garage to fix it, they seemed more then happy to do it even if the wheel needs removing. I'll see if I can get charts etc printed off before taking back to the original garage for a refund...

[Brianmoooore]

Checking whether the steering wheel is 'straight' is easy. Simply count the exact number of turns and part turns of the wheel from lock to lock, then turn it back exactly half that amount. At this point the wheel should be straight. If its not, then the wheel should be repositioned so that it is.
The track rod ends are then adjusted so that the car runs straight and has the correct amount of toe in, at which point there should be an equal amount of thread showing on each rod end.
If not, then either the rear wheels are steering to one side or the other, or something at the front is bent.