***UPDATE*** BBTB Group Buy M20**now M30 too**

Enter a group buy or look here for zone discounts

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maggspower
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Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:56 pm

Hello there folks, I'm going to do a group buy for some big bore throttles (BBTBs). These are based on the m20b25 throttle.

For those of you who are unsure of what they are, here is some bed time reading:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... tle_Bodies

To break it down, a converted throttle body is is bored out from 60mm to 64mm giving a 15% larger intake area, also resulting in a better throttle response as you will having a larger cross sectional area open earlier.

The BBTB will work with no other modifications, and the engine will run fine, the AFM does not need to know you have a bigger throttle it only sees the air that passes through it. The BBTB will also complement all other engine modifications, it is future proof in that respect, its fine for capacity hikes too, Alpina used one on their e30 engines.

Here is how I would like it to work. I want to convert your throttle body rather than do them on an exchange basis. This way there will be no problems giving you back a TB with more wear than the one you give me, remember these are 20+ year old parts. So you send me the throttle along with payment, I will convert it, then send you it back ready to be fitted. I'll be aiming for a one week turn around so no one is waiting too long with a car off the road.

Alternitively, I do have some throttles that can be bought outright, only 3 or 4 though, or source an extra one yourself and send it.

A basic conversion will be: Bored out to 64mm, new aluminuim butterfly, as OEM, reassembled and sent back recorded, £95.

I can do some extra bits like, a brass butterfly, nicer from an engineering respect, and soda blast the TB, as in the pics below. +£5 and +£10 respectively. The TB in the pics has been painted also, as the soda is too gentle to remove all the dark pitting that this TB had, I can bead blast which will remove the corrosion, but then the shaft bearings will then need to be changed.

From this:

Image

Image

To this:

Image

So make a list, or PM me. I need 10 names to go ahead at this price.

Finally, an apology to those I have kept hanging on the line for this. Good things come............... :D

********After a little research, and making some measurements, I can also do BBTBs for the M30 engine. These will be bored out to 68mm from 64mm. I'll need 5 people to take up the M30 group buy and I'll be able to do them for the same price as the M20 ones.********

Many thanks Byron.
Last edited by maggspower on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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dot
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Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:40 pm

Hi do you think this mod would have the same benefits on a turbo'd m20? Or would there not be a noticeable difference as its forced induction,

James
maggspower
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:00 pm

dot wrote:Hi do you think this mod would have the same benefits on a turbo'd m20? Or would there not be a noticeable difference as its forced induction,

James
Hi James, well with a turbo you change the goal posts a little, volumetric efficiency is what you are shooting for when tuning an engine. BBTB is making best use of atmospheric pressure, and to some extent will do the same for a turbo car with positive pressure.

When BHP is on the menu, a turbo will overcome the areas of and engine that are less well designed. For example a twisty inlet tract, not great for N/A, but it matters less in a F/I engine because the air is being forced through the areas of reistance.

However, if you had an option of a less restrictive part to start with, you are ahead already.

In short I would say a BBTB would definitely help.
jimbom30cab
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:17 pm

I will take one please

Do you do bbtb mod to m30 TBs?

Jim
maggspower
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:25 pm

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Ok Jim, I'll let this run a week and then we'll see where we are and how many names we have.

I have an m30 throttle in the workshop, I'll have a look in the morning, but the short answer is yes :D
jimbom30cab
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:27 pm

Cool, I have a couple if m30 TBs also

Thanks
G-Bear
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:12 am

Excellent work, the example in your pics looks great.

Does this have a big impact on fuel consumption? Also whats the benefits of a brass butterfly.

Thanks
maggspower
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:40 am

G-Bear wrote:Excellent work, the example in your pics looks great.

Does this have a big impact on fuel consumption? Also whats the benefits of a brass butterfly.

Thanks
Theres no impact on fuel consumption unless you want there to be :D If you are driving flat out then you will use a bit more fuel over the same driving style on the normal TB. You can't have more power with out using more fuel. Its minimal though.

However if you stick to the same speed as with a standard TB, there will be no difference, apart from the butterfly opening angle being less. More air gets in for a given throttle opening.

As for the brass butterfly, it is always preferable to have dissimilar metals contacting each other, they tend not to gall and wear, this is why bronze is used for bushes, we have lead for engine bearings etc. Also brass is a stable metal, it reacts with very little.

IMO an aluminium butterfly is very unBMW like, it works fine yes, but brass is better. M30 throttles I've seen use brass.

HTH
Quaser
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:42 am

how about m52 t/b's?
BMW E30 2.0 Convertible (M52B28)
BMW E30 2.0 2 Door (M20B28 Turbo project to start)
BMW E36 328i Sport (M52B28 Turbo Project)
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=68663
G-Bear
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:48 am

Cheers.. I'm in :D :D
maggspower
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:54 am

Quaser wrote:how about m52 t/b's?
In theory yes, but I would need to make some corresponding tooling to be able to put it in the chuck on the lathe, same as the m30 ones. But If there is the demand then thats no problem.

I have an m50 TB in the workshop I'll take a look. I believe the m5x and m30 would need to be taken out to 68mm.
maggspower
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:55 am

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bab-91
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:05 am

I'll take one, you're a bad man! :(
The Internet - It has proven to be worthless, and is nothing but a repository for perverts.

IG - bab91
maggspower
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:12 am

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bab-91 wrote:I'll take one, you're a bad man! :(
Like in a Micheal Jackson kinda way? :D
maggspower
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:33 pm

1. jimbom30cab
2. G-Bear
3. bab-91
4. e30veg
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Also see now, M30 BBTBs available. I'll require 5 TB to go ahead with this.
bab-91
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:46 pm

maggspower wrote:
bab-91 wrote:I'll take one, you're a bad man! :(
Like in a Micheal Jackson kinda way? :D
In a 'give me back my money' kinda way! lol
Meatballs82
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:28 am

Put me down for one please! :D
Image
maggspower
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:19 pm

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2. G-Bear
3. bab-91
4. e30veg
5. Meatballs82
6.
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Half way there :D
Bristol_Jer
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:19 pm

How soon do you need us to say we 100% want an m30 one Byron? I'd love one, but wont have the £ for a couple of weeks
maggspower
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:54 pm

Bristol_Jer wrote:How soon do you need us to say we 100% want an m30 one Byron? I'd love one, but wont have the £ for a couple of weeks
PM on its way :D
maggspower
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:36 am

M30 list started.

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hongkongfuey
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if there wern't people like me,
with cars like mine,
who would you put down to make yourself feel better?
faze30
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:53 pm

u mentioned you had 3-4 we can buy out right?? how much??
Image
jimbom30cab
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:54 pm

M30 list started.

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maggspower
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:13 pm

faze30 wrote:u mentioned you had 3-4 we can buy out right?? how much??
Yes, I did.

The spec on these will be: Brass butterfly, soda blasted, and painted, they will be the best from my stock, everything will be checked on them, basically as new.

£150 for these ones, inc P+P.

Byron
bab-91
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:07 pm

You still got them 4?
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maggspower
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:12 pm

bab-91 wrote:You still got them 4?
Yes, people who want them need to stick their hand up to claim them.

Just update the list, and put "outright" after your name.
bab-91
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:33 pm

maggspower wrote:
bab-91 wrote:You still got them 4?
Yes, people who want them need to stick their hand up to claim them.

Just update the list, and put "outright" after your name.
:thumb: Any houndstooth appreciation discount? winkeye

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G-Bear
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:51 am

Would anyone in the South East(ish) way be interested in getting a rolling road done before and after.. Not to say everyone could do it and we can compare notes after :o . Just a thought..
jimbom30cab
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:26 am

South East(ish) way be interested in getting a rolling road done before and after
Yup, would defo go for an after RR session
G-Bear
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:59 am

jimbom30cab wrote:
South East(ish) way be interested in getting a rolling road done before and after
Yup, would defo go for an after RR session
Just an after RR?

Shame were you at the guildford meet last night, I had to hold back as money was tight in the end. Otherwise we could have sorted it then..

I'll look into somewhere near our way and let you know.. Unless you know of somewhere..
hongkongfuey
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:00 pm

South east where?
if there wern't people like me,
with cars like mine,
who would you put down to make yourself feel better?
G-Bear
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:37 pm

hongkongfuey wrote:South east where?
Well I'm live in Hertfordshire so would be happy to go somewhere between here and Portsmouth If you're keen.. and live in Portsmouth..

jimbom30cab seems keen for a after session and is Hampshire way which is close to you..

Do you know of anywhere in particular?
matt86
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:45 pm

I might have one of these please Byron, do you still have that chip too?
maggspower
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:08 pm

I'll put you on the list :D

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Check your PMs in a minute re. chip.
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