What is under the bonnet of this car?

[m3ben05]

Well said!

As much as i love BMW i cant deny that there are better cars and engines out there. Anyone with even an ounce of sense can see that a 15 year old BMW is not the pinnacle of engineering

I think the 5th gear show the other week proved that point better than any words could.

[stevetigger]

LOL

Nah, i just find it funny the number of people on this site who:

A) belittle stuff like this DTM car

B) look down on the likes of vauxhalls and think bmw is all that matters


So i figured by pointing out that what they say cant be done easily can by a vauxhall engine, it would be food for thought for at least one of those groups, and epseically people in both groups at once, LOL

True, But I do think that BMW has more engine knowledge than some American company like GM or ford! Just look at the new M5 engine!

[chip-3door]

BMW dont design their own engines on their own, neither do ford or GM etc, they ALL use external consultancies like cosworth and lotus TBH

The difference with BMW though is that the value of the cars makes putting in an expensive engine more acceptable.

But look at the GT40 to see that ford CAN do it.

[Chaos]

Its actually so easy to get to about 140bhp per litre from the XE that you can buy an off the shelf kit to do it:
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/TP2 ... 90_Kit.htm


I just cant accept that BMW have designed the M3 engine which was intended for motorsport as wth less potential than the XE which was intended mainly for shopping at the time it first appeared in the astra in 1897!

well i see what your saying even if some other "blinkered" people cant m8.

the real difference i suspect lies in the costing.
far more people are looking at modding xe's than s14's as the xe is a more common and cheap engine.
and as such the price of s14 bits are far far higher.

still as u say, if u can do those things to a normal vauxhall road engine then it figures that you can also do them to a bmw engine designed for racing from the same period.

[dn808e]

Hi, first of all would like to thank everyone for answering so fast and in full detail, all i understand now that i wanted to have a race car on the road and ,this was very stupid,but on the other hand it is possible accordin' to some figures as i posted before ,it should cost 3 to 4 K

standart is 215 bhp +
Engine Kit
+ 40 HP/30 KW
(2,3 l S14) Complete kit to increase power by 40bhp (2,3 ltr S14). Kit comprises cams, mapping on rolling road and air filter.

Available for all S14 engines. 3200,00 EUR

gives 255 bhp
+Race
Exhaust Exhaust for M3 E30. This Exhaust is equivalent to the design that was used in the DTM 1992 but to fit the stock header. A power gain of approx 7KW can be expected. Includes the X-pipe, which is essential for the S14. ID is 60mm. Two metal catalytic converters are optional (add EUR 300,00). 1600,00 EUR


do i have to bore the block ?is this nessesary at all?

p.s. that DTM BUMER ,that is the THING
you are wery lucky man that you have dad who can appretiate your choice
is any chance to know how much this BEAUTY cost ?
and what was wrong with it? as i remember you sad that car wasn't workin'
thanks

[TommyC]

I just cant accept that BMW have designed the M3 engine which was intended for motorsport as wth less potential than the XE which was intended mainly for shopping at the time it first appeared in the astra in 1897!

Fooook me!!! Thats one old Astra!! Wouldn't it have rusted away by now??
(heheee!!! )

[Demlotcrew]

Seems like he has no response for you there mate

I just dont see the point.

If he doesnt believe me then thats his choice.

Andrew

[chip-3door]

Seems like he has no response for you there mate

I just dont see the point.

If he doesnt believe me then thats his choice.

Andrew

You blatantly havent a clue what you are talking about, the reason you havent listed 30K worth of parts is that you quite simply havent got a clue what they might be, not for any other reason at all.

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ON ABOUT

Simple as that, why not just admit it instead of hide behind saying "there is no point"


I really cant stand tossers like you on the internet who come out with these things and then cant back them up.

[Demlotcrew]

Yes you got me i dont know anything at all.

Andrew

[Kos]

1000hp does seem pretty easy these days. Still not dast enough for me

get in a proper car with proper power and you will need pampers again.

my m3 with 300/350 shits up most people, 175 in an e30 is scary

[maxfield]

Is tvr cebera a real car?or audi S4? or e30 m3?

[Simon13]

chip 3 door- do u like wierdos who come on forums and talk about other cars?! Who are these one track bmw minds your referring to? As we are all aware bm's are not the be all and end all. We just like them. And i'm not on the net alot at the mo, but every time i come on here, your posting with that god awful yellow sh!te sig pic winding everyone up.

Do u know demlotcrew personnaly? do u know him well enough from what he types on here to make a judgement on his knowledge of engines? I'm not sure u do

It's people like u who ruin the atmosphere on here, and make folks scared to posting because the yellow ford shite might appear shooting down everyones opinions and thoughts.

Keep up the good work, cos it's working in pissing everyone off

Is is true u make sweet bum love to Chaos?

[fuzzy]

i find that theres quite a varied selection of mindsets on this forum, in my experience i havent came accross any blinkered zoners....and i put a ford engine in mine and got no abuse nobody knows everything, its always handy to have another point of view

[Kos]

Is tvr cebera a real car?or audi S4? or e30 m3?

tvr is fiberglass bucket of shit with crap build quality, audi is too sensible, if you mentiond the rs2 that would be different, e30 m3 if a real car which was designed to be fast not only in a straight line but win races and hammer the cossies round the twisty bits. despite the the fact im going for 500hp i stand by by my staments. i dont care if my car is a pig to drive and only useable in a straight line, i'm building an 318is to go fast round the twisty bits. untill you get you lisence and learn to drive and experience a "fast" car i wouldnt comment too much

you dont need lots of power to have a fast car, eg karan 327 gug only 220hp very fast and scary, ians 332i sport again vary fast and scary, dips m3 cabrio with v8 and 400+hp NA is amazing, you dont need 1000hp in a rice rocket to have a fast car.

[Demlotcrew]

Kos dont waste your time with these guys.

Ive been out on the track with other fords which were sporting much more power than me and i can tell you there was nothing in it on the track, the Sierra 4X4 on the last donighton day could not even stay on the tarmac and one of the fiestas rolled mid day.

Andrew

[m-dtech]

Personaly i think bmw make good solid cars.

When it comes to the engine on the E30 i think that its about right for its year of design etc.

However, for what it would cost to modify an m20 to 200+ bhp the bmw fails big time.

The problem on the forum is people believe BMW = Best, and that Bigger Cappacity = Better

Id rather spend the same silly money you guys are spending on m20 modds on a cosworth lump, or vauxhall lump.

Also, Ԛ£30k is stupid money for 30 horses. no race team would spend that. you could supercharge,turbo or re-bore to bigger ccs for one tenth of that lol

[Kos]

i agree andrew but its kinda fun sometimes??!!

my m3 will never be a track car, its a street car which is too fast as it is the IS will be a "track car" and i'll keep the 316i as the daily driver

here is a statement for every one to take note of "power is nothing without control"

[m-dtech]

also to add,

we live in the uk.

fuel prices are high

speed limit is 70mph

if your gonna spend silly money on an engine conversion DONT buy a car ! it will be cheaper !

[Kos]

Also, Ԛ£30k is stupid money for 30 horses. no race team would spend that. you could supercharge,turbo or re-bore to bigger ccs for one tenth of that lol

in racing everything counts, budgets dont count. winn on the track win the sales on the street

and to redevelop a NA enging for FI to race would cost more than 30grand plus its gota be available to sell to the paying public, thats wht the touring car rules were back then and they still are.

[Demlotcrew]

Also, Ԛ£30k is stupid money for 30 horses. no race team would spend that. you could supercharge,turbo or re-bore to bigger ccs for one tenth of that lol

But its not all about cost of parts, most of the money would go into R&D then custom manufacture plus testing and homologation.

Andrew

[chip-3door]

Also, Ԛ£30k is stupid money for 30 horses. no race team would spend that. you could supercharge,turbo or re-bore to bigger ccs for one tenth of that lol

But its not all about cost of parts, most of the money would go into R&D then custom manufacture plus testing and homologation.

Andrew

So are you now saying that the 30K isnt for doing it to one engine, but what you estimate the cost being to produce all the homolgated parts? LMFAO

You just get wider and wider from the mark every time you try and dig yourself out that hole you are in.

Why dont you just admit that you dont actually know what parts would be needed differently or how much they cost, rather than trying to justify a random number you came up with?



As for the cost of parts to racing teams, in things like F1, they would happily spend 30 million to get 30bhp extra, let alone 30K

[Demlotcrew]

Like i said mate i dont know nothing.

Andrew

[Kos]

and in WTTC they wouldnt spen 30k for 30 hp, F1 development is use on road cars too so where the money comes from and goes is irrelivant but its prooven on the track.
30k by team schnitzer with M teams backing for 2 cars is pocket change and if its the difference between winning a loosing they would have done it.

[Dan318-is]

i knew it would be worth watchign this thread

another Ford boy who rekons his budget car is an all car nailer cos its got a cossy lump in

how long do those enignes last when they put out 1000 brake anyway?

[Demlotcrew]

i knew it would be worth watchign this thread

another Ford boy who rekons his budget car is an all car nailer cos its got a cossy lump in

how long do those enignes last when they put out 1000 brake anyway?

Thing is Dan we have seen this Ford boy in action behind the wheel, now if theres something i do know its that he needs to be spending his money on learning to drive a car never mind talking about them.

Andrew

[Chaos]

Is is true u make sweet bum love to Chaos?

another classic and useful contribution on the subject of e30's from simon i see.


still while we r on the subject the answer is hell yeah, every night except fridays and saturdays when we go down the gaybar and watch you entertain the crowds in your gimp suit simon.


now get a fcuking life.
u wanna talk about e30's fine, if not then do urself a favour and stfu.

[chip-3door]

i knew it would be worth watchign this thread

another Ford boy who rekons his budget car is an all car nailer cos its got a cossy lump in

how long do those enignes last when they put out 1000 brake anyway?

Thing is Dan we have seen this Ford boy in action behind the wheel, now if theres something i do know its that he needs to be spending his money on learning to drive a car never mind talking about them.

Andrew

If thats me you are referring to then ive no idea when you would have seen me behind the wheel of a car TBH
Wouldnt claim to be micheal schumacher or anything anyway, and never will be, but i enjoy my ring trips and trackdays and stuff, so my driving is more than good enough for what i need to do, and also enough to have earnt me some money doing testdrives at racetracks in the past for a major car manufacturer.

You have it TOTALLY wrong though if you think im a "ford boy" you genuinely couldnt be further from the truth, im not into fords at all particuarly, they are mainly nasty rotting unreliable rubbish thats nowhere near as fun to drive as an E30, the only exception to which really is the cossie.


If you want to label me anything it is going to need to be "petrol head" not "ford boy"

As currently i own:
Integra type R
Mid engined turbo nova
Mini convertable
Mini project im building up with 500bhp+
Half an E30 with MarkT off her
My sierra
An Alfa romeo
Another mini



Thats hardly "ford boy" really is it mate?



Anyway im sure most people can see exactly what you are doing in trying to have a go at me, you are just diverting the fact away from the fact you made some stupid statement about cost to try and sound like it was fact when the truth is you actually have no idea of the cost involved.

I dont know why you dont just admit that and then get on with it rather than trying to get involved in various mudslinging bouts.

I dont ever say anything thats not true, i dont make out to know anything i dont, if i dont know something then i say so and i try and learn from trying it or asking someone who has, far better way to be IMHO

[chip-3door]

i knew it would be worth watchign this thread

another Ford boy who rekons his budget car is an all car nailer cos its got a cossy lump in

how long do those enignes last when they put out 1000 brake anyway?

Nope, couldnt be further from the truth, i won cars myself that are quicker than my cossie, and i tune cars for other people that are as well, such as my mates mk2 astra that does over 120 terminal on the quarter, my cossie feels like a pedal car in comparison with only 250bhp per tonne or so versus his 400+ per tonne

As for how long the engines last at that level, couldnt tell you as the most i know anyone with currently thats someone i know well is 850, that does about 7-8 thousand miles before a stripdown and inspection, but on the last time they did that it didnt even need a crank grind, was all still in very good condition.

Thats unusually powerful though and by no means par for the course for a cossie motor.

A "normal big power" cossie engine puts out about 500bhp on a T4 and needs a rebuild after 20K miles or so, if you want to talk "average"

[stevetigger]

As currently i own:
Integra type R
Mid engined turbo nova
Mini convertable
Mini project im building up with 500bhp+
Half an E30 with MarkT off her
My sierra
An Alfa romeo
Another mini

I knew a Vauxhall would be in there!

[chip-3door]

Like i said mate i dont know nothing.

Andrew

But it appears you do


TBH im sure like anyone who has been into cars for a while you probably have lots of useful things to say, and im sure at some point in the future on this forum i will learn something from you about the E30, but its not the stuff that you do know that i have an issue with, i just cant see the point in you posting on the stuff you DONT know about.

[chip-3door]

chip 3 door- do u like wierdos who come on forums and talk about other cars?! Who are these one track bmw minds your referring to? As we are all aware bm's are not the be all and end all. We just like them. And i'm not on the net alot at the mo, but every time i come on here, your posting with that god awful yellow sh!te sig pic winding everyone up.

LOL, you really think insulting one of my cars is going to bother me?
You need to get out more!

I dont care about that car especially, its just a bit of cheap fun to me, nothing more, ive not got any emotional attachement to it, its just an old ford sierra!
Ok so its pretty quick, but not as quick as other things i drive, so im not under any illusions about it, in fact when i picked the Turbo i specfically picked one that yields 30bhp less than another one i could have used (a .63 housing instead of the .48 ive got) purely to make it nicer for just puttering around at low speeds, the performance of it although reasonable isnt of any massive interest to me cause fundamentally next to things like the mini im building currently the cossie may as well be pedal powered!

Do u know demlotcrew personnaly? do u know him well enough from what he types on here to make a judgement on his knowledge of engines? I'm not sure u do

I dont know anything about him at all other than that he didnt base that figure on facts, hence my comments about it, im sure he is a perfectly nice person in real life, and who knows maybe one day i will be having a pint with him somewhere, but if i see BS on a forum i call it as BS as it doesnt do anyone any good, forums like this are about sharing information not misinformation

It's people like u who ruin the atmosphere on here, and make folks scared to posting because the yellow ford shite might appear shooting down everyones opinions and thoughts.

If people think twice before they post technical nonsense cause they know i will pick them up in it, then thats great frankly IMHO

Keep up the good work, cos it's working in pissing everyone off

Sadly you are wrong, its only pissing a small number of people off, the ones who post BS, other people on here seem to get on fine with me

Is is true u make sweet bum love to Chaos?

No mate its not, nothing sweet about it, its hardcore nasty bum love.

[chip-3door]

As currently i own:
Integra type R
Mid engined turbo nova
Mini convertable
Mini project im building up with 500bhp+
Half an E30 with MarkT off her
My sierra
An Alfa romeo
Another mini

I knew a Vauxhall would be in there!

LOL
One and a half if you count the engine in the mini!

Sorry if that somehow offends some people and i should ONLY have a bmw, but i happen to like cars in general not just one make.

TBH favourite of all my cars would have been the integra if it wasnt for the fact i recently had somewhere in the region of 20K of parts stolen from it and its now just a bare shell

[Dan318-is]

not to interfere

but demlot is one of, if not the cleverest e30 bloke on here from what iv experienced and heard, so i dont think that what he has said is "bs"

[chip-3door]

not to interfere

but demlot is one of, if not the cleverest e30 bloke on here from what iv experienced and heard, so i dont think that what he has said is "bs"

I suspect that at best its a total guess as im pretty sure that he (JUST LIKE ME! IM NOT SAYING OTHERWISE!) doesnt actually know the exact changes needed to turn a race spec 330bhp motor in a 360bhp one, especially without knowing the details of the engine in question!

Might literally just need a little more work to the head, some hotter cams and a remap.
But on the other hand the CR might not be high enough (600 quid for a set of pistons), it might need a custom crank (couple of K) it might need totally different head where you need to start from scratch and CNC port it (couple of K) it could need larger TBs (could easliy be a grand with trumpets)


One thing i do know though, is that given the last of the factory ones managed 360bhp, and hence the block can cope etc, it wont cost you 30K, its VERY hard to acutally spend that much money on an engine, hell thats twice what i will have spent to get 500+ from my 2.0 16v motor for my mini (obviously the figure for BHP is higher cause of the turbo but most of the other bits like steel crank and rods etc are exactly how you would build a 140bhp per litre N/A motor)


IF he does know a lot, then he should stick to posting about those things surely?

[Chaos]

for some things u dont need a specific e30 knowledge.

ive known chip for 4 yrs odd now maybe longer and tbh if i have a question bout engine tuning etc hes usually my 1st port of call.
rest assured he knows his stuff.