mot advisory for having........

[craigieeb]

A roll cage fitted.......???

WTF,

is the tester for real? Or just being a little Hitler?

I can't find any info on having a roll cage fitted being an advisory?
Not that I will be doing anything about it, advisories just falls on deaf ears with me.

[Captain_Birdseye]

exactly, it's not like it will need attention b4 next year - is he telling you it's in bad condition and needs some hamerite?

[craigieeb]

There's nothing wrong with the condition,
It was powdercoated not so long ago, and looks factory fresh!
so dont know what the hell he is on about

[milescook]

Had an MOT on my track car just Wednesday http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=204866 and just an advisory on a tyre. The guy said last year in his tester refresher course the instructor told them race seats were illegal. So for the purposes of the MOT he "didn't see them".

Rather stupid, as all WRC drivers surely with UK registered cars? Can't have a valid MOT. IIRC, VOSA had a sensible moment and released further "clarification" last year about ABS warning lights etc - it's on pistonheads somewhere.

[billgatese30]

Had an MOT on my track car just Wednesday http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=204866 and just an advisory on a tyre. The guy said last year in his tester refresher course the instructor told them race seats were illegal. So for the purposes of the MOT he "didn't see them".

Wonder why that is, there are thousands of road legal cars which came as standard with seats which are a one piece shell (i.e. a 'race'seat). There must be thousands of Porsche 968/911's and BMW M3 CSL's out there with these seats, not to mention all the factory and home build westfield/caterham/radical's etc. Thats before you even consider some of the supercars which have them fitted.

[craigieeb]

Eh!

Just read there, the seats need to move 2 or 3 positions forward and back.....


So why didnt even say a word about the fixed bucket seats,

the guy is a tool!!




Stupid! stupid! EU laws!!!!

soon any sort of modification will be banned

[billgatese30]

Just read there, the seats need to move 2 or 3 positions forward and back.....

Is that in case you suddenly shrink by 6 inches, or forget to put on your platforms before driving back from Asda

The MOT test really is becoming a joke. They would be better making it compulsory to fit "fog" sensors so you can only leave your fog's on when you actually need them, rather than use them and sidelights on their own when it is dark!

[DanThe]

Depending on which tester I get at my local when I take my track car I either get no advisories at all, or
1- "interior heavily modified"
2- "suspension heavily modified"
3- "engine heavily modified"

I asked him how he knew the engine had been heavily modified, he said "well its not meant to be in this car"

There was rumour of new seat rules coming in but so far I believe they just have to check that seats that move can actually move freely

[craigieeb]

Just read there, the seats need to move 2 or 3 positions forward and back.....

Is that in case you suddenly shrink by 6 inches, or forget to put on your platforms before driving back from Asda

The MOT test really is becoming a joke. They would be better making it compulsory to fit "fog" sensors so you can only leave your fog's on when you actually need them, rather than use them and sidelights on their own when it is dark!

Exactly,
fixed seats, are urm... let me guess..


errrmm are fixed to the position of the driver,

The world has gone mad

[pacerpete]

As somebody who regularly comes across molested / modded scrap , I can understand where they are coming from re modifications. A car as it leaves the factory is in most case very well engineered and everything passes the relevant construction and safety standards.

Anybody who regularly works on 'modified' cars is lying if they state that they do not regularly come across modifications and handiwork that is at best laughably gash and at worst down right life threateningly dangerous

These rules and laws are all ways of protecting the stupid amongst us from a Darwin moment

[craigieeb]

Depending on which tester I get at my local when I take my track car I either get no advisories at all, or
1- "interior heavily modified"
2- "suspension heavily modified"
3- "engine heavily modified"

I asked him how he knew the engine had been heavily modified, he said "well its not meant to be in this car"

There was rumour of new seat rules coming in but so far I believe they just have to check that seats that move can actually move freely

Like i say Dan, he didnt even bat an eyelid at the seats, groaned about the harnesses tho :/
I couldnt get my normal guy to do mine,
which always fly through, with no advisories,

But this guy sort of reminded me of the last time i got stopped by the police,
no stone left unturned type of guy

he was defiantly on a mission to fail the car, which he did anyway,

[craigieeb]

As somebody who regularly comes across molested / modded scrap , I can understand where they are coming from re modifications. A car as it leaves the factory is in most case very well engineered and everything passes the relevant construction and safety standards.

Anybody who regularly works on 'modified' cars is lying if they state that they do not regularly come across modifications and handiwork that is at best laughably gash and at worst down right life threateningly dangerous

These rules and laws are all ways of protecting the stupid amongst us from a Darwin moment

Yeah, totally agree

but adding a roll cage, "bucket seat" and 3,4,5 point harnesses

isnt that just adding to the security of the vehicle

and when i say adding the extra devices, i dont just mean throwing them in with rusty rounded bolts,
but in a "professional manor"

[pacerpete]

As somebody who regularly comes across molested / modded scrap , I can understand where they are coming from re modifications. A car as it leaves the factory is in most case very well engineered and everything passes the relevant construction and safety standards.

Anybody who regularly works on 'modified' cars is lying if they state that they do not regularly come across modifications and handiwork that is at best laughably gash and at worst down right life threateningly dangerous

These rules and laws are all ways of protecting the stupid amongst us from a Darwin moment

Yeah, totally agree

but adding a roll cage, "bucket seat" and 3,4,5 point harnesses

isnt that just adding to the security of the vehicle

and when i say adding the extra devices, i dont just mean throwing them in with rusty rounded bolts,
but in a "professional manor"

Indeed it is BUT only if fitted correctly. You would be suprised the amount of people that foook up simple tasks like the above.

The latest in a long line of regular shockers I have come across is a motorsport type not realising that his aftermarket steering wheel hub had two different stud patterns , so he made do with three allen bolts beasted in as best he could (all three next to each other, not spread out) and ignored the other three holes he could not get to line up. the wheel was falling off but the car was still being used !

Then there was the 'Cossied' M3 with a 'bespoke' front cross member with the rack repositioned. To reset the geometry the craftsmen heated up the track rods and kept beating them till the wheels were nearly paralell..........

I could write a book !

[mattrs]

Both my old and current track toys pass every year (with cages) without any nonsense!

The guy is

[Motorhole]

Concerns me that I will struggle to get mine mot'd when its done! 5 stud conversion, manual brakes plumbed in from scratch, cage, buckets, harnesses... pretty much everything mot testers arnt going to like.

[jonny323i]

Most testers these days will put atleast one advisory just so it looks good to vosa on the computer

[bigwinn]

I got an advisory for having an air freshener hanging from the interior mirror last time the bronzit went through

I get the reason- blocking field of vision, but when it was retested after all the bits were fixed, it still had that advisory!

[Brianmoooore]

The advisory is because the upper parts of the cage itself are a hazard to the driver and any passengers that are in the car. Car designers go to great lengths to ensure that the head of anyone inside the car only comes into contact with energy absorbent surfaces following an impact, and you've fitted a rigid steel tube right next to the occupants heads.

[magpie]

just realised my mot is due very soon !

[DanThe]

Most testers these days will put atleast one advisory just so it looks good to vosa on the computer

Yep, if they are not dishing out regular advisories it flags up a warning on the VOSA system apparently

Pete, the more scrap you buy the more bodges you find, its the rulezz

Cages in a road car are not a very good idea IMO, just brings the A post, B post and roof areas closer to your head

[gooner1]

The advisory is because the upper parts of the cage itself are a hazard to the driver and any passengers that are in the car. Car designers go to great lengths to ensure that the head of anyone inside the car only comes into contact with energy absorbent surfaces following an impact, and you've fitted a rigid steel tube right next to the occupants heads.

How does that work in an E30 Cab, Brian?


Please no comments re the Cab drivers head being the
energy absorbent surface.

[Morat]

Racers wear helmets, despite being inside the cage.

[craigieeb]

The advisory is because the upper parts of the cage itself are a hazard to the driver and any passengers that are in the car. Car designers go to great lengths to ensure that the head of anyone inside the car only comes into contact with energy absorbent surfaces following an impact, and you've fitted a rigid steel tube right next to the occupants heads.

Dont some new cars come with a roll cage fitted?
Like say..
The Porsche 911 gt3..

So if a car can leave a dealership, with "aftermarket" items fitted,
Why can't they be fitted by someone who is just as competent with a socket set?

[Motorhole]

Dont some new cars come with a roll cage fitted?
Like say..
The Porsche 911 gt3..

So if a car can leave a dealership, with "aftermarket" items fitted,
Why can't they be fitted by someone who is just as competent with a socket set?

Most of those kind of new cars only have half cages. Besides, there's lots of exclusions in the mot for factory fitted stuff. Essentially, if its fitted at the factory, it goes.

[Topblag]

Re the whole business of mot'ing track cars.

If you mot it, you'll probably be insuring it. Think of a few years MoT and insurance costs and buy a used trailer instead. That's going to be the route I'm taking with my M50'd 2 door track project. Trailer will also be very handy to have and storage is easy, park the car on it.

[Andy325i]

Cages in a road car are not a very good idea IMO, just brings the A post, B post and roof areas closer to your head

Totally agree, but if used with a harness that is properly fitted to the driver, would it stop the occupants head/s from coming into contact with the cage?

Did hear once that harnesses are illegal in road cars. Does anyone know if this is true?

Most of those kind of new cars only have half cages. Besides, there's lots of exclusions in the mot for factory fitted stuff. Essentially, if its fitted at the factory, it goes.

Agreed, although a friend with new Mot station had to do his first Mot with the Vosa guy stood watching him. Vosa guy asked him what he wanted to "MOT", mate choose to do his own Mercedes Vito van which was a year old at the time.

Mate didn't fail it but advised that an exhaust rubber was perished.

Vosa guy said what about the tinted front windows? Mate explained that was how they came from Mercedes (Truth), Vosa guy tested them with his light measuring device and found them to be too dark.

They weren't much too tinted, but never the less illegal. Probably legal for some other markets than then UK, but obviously a breakdown in communication somewhere along the line.

[Morat]

The advisory is because the upper parts of the cage itself are a hazard to the driver and any passengers that are in the car. Car designers go to great lengths to ensure that the head of anyone inside the car only comes into contact with energy absorbent surfaces following an impact, and you've fitted a rigid steel tube right next to the occupants heads.

Dont some new cars come with a roll cage fitted?
Like say..
The Porsche 911 gt3..

So if a car can leave a dealership, with "aftermarket" items fitted,
Why can't they be fitted by someone who is just as competent with a socket set?

Cars leave the factory with type approval, which trumps the mot.

[Motorhole]

Re the whole business of mot'ing track cars.

If you mot it, you'll probably be insuring it. Think of a few years MoT and insurance costs and buy a used trailer instead. That's going to be the route I'm taking with my M50'd 2 door track project. Trailer will also be very handy to have and storage is easy, park the car on it.

Trailer plus a vehicle that can tow it legally, plus the running costs of that vehicle vs. current daily driver

E30 track car + trailer must be about 1300kg at least? Which would mean a vehicle of around 1700-1800 would be required to legally tow it? Now way my Fabia weighs that

Going to try and MOT & insure it first and see how much that costs! Also makes testing between trackdays easier if you can go for a quick blast on the road.

On a different note, someone on the PPC forum did write a letter to VOSA regarding removal of servos, for dual m/s setup with bias box for instance. The reply was along the lines of, as long as the work is of a high standard and the replacement system in some way makes up for the loss of the servo, it's acceptable.

[capnmchl]

I think a lot of it is uncertainty. The men from VOSA can come round anytime. They'll sit down the road and log all the registrations of the cars in the yard, and they can see what you've tested that day and what you're testing. And each time you might have a different guy, with a different standard of rules.

So the easiest thing to do when you're not sure, is to just advise it. That way, it's noted that you've seen it, but you don't think it's worthy of a fail.

[dave525]

I think a lot of it is uncertainty. The men from VOSA can come round anytime. They'll sit down the road and log all the registrations of the cars in the yard, and they can see what you've tested that day and what you're testing. And each time you might have a different guy, with a different standard of rules.

So the easiest thing to do when you're not sure, is to just advise it. That way, it's noted that you've seen it, but you don't think it's worthy of a fail.

as a tester myself you have to cover your ass.Advises on the mot are just that.Non testable items brought to your attention.If a car was inspected after an mot by vosa they would want to know why you didnt mention it.As for being on a mission to fail cars i see what the official wording says and if im not sure i pass and advise.Most fail items are pretty clearcut and if you think it shouldnt have failed you can appeal.

[Brianmoooore]

Trailer plus a vehicle that can tow it legally, plus the running costs of that vehicle vs. current daily driver

E30 track car + trailer must be about 1300kg at least? Which would mean a vehicle of around 1700-1800 would be required to legally tow it?

Shave 100kg off of that, and you can tow it with an E30. Limit is 1200kg for an E30, with 50kg maximum down on the towbar.

On a different note, someone on the PPC forum did write a letter to VOSA regarding dual m/s setup with bias box for instance.

Only legal on the road if the bias bar adjustment is locked in place.

[greg124]

My MOT guy told me that VOSA had told him that he hadn't failed enough classic cars.
Needless to say that was the first time I got an advisory since putting the car back on the road.

Seems like VOSA has quotas like so many other public (lack of) service organisations.

[dave525]

My MOT guy told me that VOSA had told him that he hadn't failed enough classic cars.
Needless to say that was the first time I got an advisory since putting the car back on the road.

Seems like VOSA has quotas like so many other public (lack of) service organisations.

no quotas that i know of.they are pretty keen on the rule book so it doesnt matter how old a car is if it doesnt meet the requirements of the manual it fails.A tester cant just fail what he likes.Its all down in black and white what to check and how to check it.You would be surprised the state of some much newer cars ie 3 or 4 years old if theyve done a few miles with an owner who just gets in and drives it.

[Brianmoooore]

There's no 'quotas' as such, but VOSA does compare the pass/fail ratio from different stations, and any that are consistently too far out of line, one way or the other, are likely to get special attention.