BILT HAMBER VS FERTAN...

[Gavla]

So I decided to do a little experiment, results below;


The first picture is of the calipers untreated....





The second picture is of the calipers after treatment...





The top calipers were Fertaned and the botom calipers were Bilt Hambered.

[craigieeb]

Did you strip them down before "dipping" them?
or
did you just throw them in with all the rubber attached?

[polsta]

what bilt hamber product was it exactly ? (looks decent) they look like 2 different products that are for different things/ways to be used, fertan isnt a "stripper" to be used in that sort of way, as the instructions tell you, any "rust" treated with fertan goes dark/black , not back to bare metal

[Idol]

I bought some fertan the other week and wasn't that impressed with the results. It didn't seem to get rid of the rust but just left some black stuff on it even after it was hosed down. I read the instructions and I know that it's supposed to leave a black residue, but I was hoping to see fresh metal after it was hosed down???

[snakebrain]

I was hoping to see fresh metal after it was hosed down???

No - it reacts with the surface to lay down a protective barrier..

BH gets my money anyday.

[polsta]

so you read the instructions did not say it leaves fresh bare metal, it says it turns it black and leaves a black residue, but "it just left some black stuff on it" , and your not supposed to hose it down

http://www.fertan.co.uk/how_to_use_fertan.htm


its best used in instances like, you could spray it inside your sills/bottom of doors,,wells, things like that, in the little holes where you maybe cant get to, leave it 24 hours, then spray waxoyl in, which would settle over it, forming a permanent lasting barrier, the feran lay dormant forever and kicks in if any rust forms , which...in that instance being inside a sill/bottom of door, you would not want to pour stuff in which takes things to bare metal, which you can then not re paint easily ,thus actualy making more of a rust problem leaving bare metal that you cant re paint easily

fertan aswell ive heard people spray/pour, via a tube down the sunroof drain holes and things, again an area youd not want to pour something down that strips to bare metal....

[Gavla]

Did you strip them down before "dipping" them?
or
did you just throw them in with all the rubber attached?

Just threw them in, Bilt Hamber is non corrosive so does not damage the rubber.

what bilt hamber product was it exactly ? (looks decent) they look like 2 different products that are for different things/ways to be used, fertan isnt a "stripper" to be used in that sort of way, as the instructions tell you, any "rust" treated with fertan goes dark/black , not back to bare metal

Bilt Hamber Deox C - Concentrated Rust Remover +- £15, I used about 100g of the 1kg.

And yes I agree on the difference in product, however both are rust removers.

I will be putting the Fertaned calipers in the solution to see if maybe they come out even better.

[Idol]

Gonna try some Billet Hammer, what was the product you used and did you dip them or just brush/spray on?

[Gavla]

Gonna try some Billet Hammer, what was the product you used and did you dip them or just brush/spray on?

Dipped for a week.

I also have a pressure washer that can strip paint so that helped the end result...

The calipers were quite scabby so a steel brush helps to strip that off, comes off easy the more the calipers soak.

[maxfield]

I've used 3 of the bilt hamber products and would recommend them to anyone.

[Idol]

so you read the instructions did not say it leaves fresh bare metal, it says it turns it black and leaves a black residue, but "it just left some black stuff on it" , and your not supposed to hose it down

http://www.fertan.co.uk/how_to_use_fertan.htm

Yes you can hose it down, but not pressure wash.....
Fertan is sh*t!
Billet Hammer it is then!

[polsta]

And yes I agree on the difference in product, however both are rust removers.

I will be putting the Fertaned calipers in the solution to see if maybe they come out even better.

fertan is NOT a rust remover, its a converter !!!!! read up on the website, these sort of products would both be used in conjunction for different ares/uses

for example, you can fertan, re paint something, it then stay dormant under the coating, if any rust kicks back in the fertan kicks in and kills/converts it, a "rust remover" is a different thing

be interested to see them results , il get some of that BH stuff i think

[Gavla]

so you read the instructions did not say it leaves fresh bare metal

Polsta I am not knocking Fertan, I merely did a comparison of 2 different products that claim to be rust removers.

To be honest the Fertan did a good job and I am sure with a little elbow grease I would get a similar bare metal finish.

I just believe that Bilt Hamber is better in this instance and also much better value for money.

They have some fantastic products which I will be using in the future.

I will be posting pics up of there alloy wheel cleaner...also brilliant stuff.

[polsta]

im just pointing out they have different uses, fertan isnt a rust remover !!! its more a provention and protective barrier type thing to re coat over,or to re convert rust back to mental, than to strip rust, ive never dipped anything in it (which the bh stuff looks great for) , read the comment above for the sills/doors/drains etc....thats what its best for, a use you certainly would not use the bh stuff for !

[craigieeb]

Did you strip them down before "dipping" them?
or
did you just throw them in with all the rubber attached?

Just threw them in, Bilt Hamber is non corrosive so does not damage the rubber

Mint, I might have to get some of that then

[Gavla]

Ok just to confirm, on the bottle of Fertan I have it says the following on the front;

Destroys Rust / Removes rust without shot blasting / Destroying Rust - Protecting steel / is the optimal treatment for the removal of rust from all metal constructions

I thought it was a rust remover...my bad

[Nobby_N]

Doesnt someone on here work for fertan??

[Idol]

Haha, Polsta I reckon!

[gooner1]

Doesnt someone on here work for fertan??

Yea, that South African zoner, Bilt Hamber.

[polsta]

Ok just to confirm, on the bottle of Fertan I have it says the following on the front;

Destroys Rust / Removes rust without shot blasting / Destroying Rust - Protecting steel / is the optimal treatment for the removal of rust from all metal constructions

I thought it was a rust remover...my bad

your not thinking of it in the same way of something that you "dip" something in to actualy strip/remove rust, its a rust convertor, not remover as such, go through the pages of this,clicking next page at the bottom

http://www.fertan.co.uk/project-porsche356-1.htm

from the website -

Rust Conversion Time and Surface change: One coat of Fertan® Rust converter is recommended.
The metal surface can be damp at application. Over a period of 12 hours the surface will become black.
Conversion continues for up to 24 hours and is temperature and humidity dependent.

Equipment and methods Fertan® may be applied by brush, sponge, roller or spray. Spray application is recommended
for large areas. Airless spray equipment is fast, effective and better than conventional air-spray equipment. In this
litigious age we, like paint suppliers, recommend gloves and eye protection. Fertan® has always worked well with all
surfacing products. Again it is responsible to recommend that a trial area should be tested. Very rarely and only with
very strong and thick layers of rust it is useful to apply Fertan twice, the first time thinned with 20% - 50% of water.
Leave for seven days and then pressure wash and the rust will fall off. Then apply a fresh coat of pure Fertan as normal.
Very strong and thick means the sort of rust found on marine pilings(1cm+).

[craigieeb]

Doesnt someone on here masterbate with fertan??

Fixed

[Gavla]

Yea, that South African zoner, Bilt Hamber.

Oi! Just because I am South African does not mean my name is Bilt Hamber

[Kedge]

I e tried fertan and for what I wanted it for I was not impressed, I can see the benefit for things like Polsta says with tubes and cavities but not on any surface you intend to paint.

[Idol]

I e tried fertan and for what I wanted it for I was not impressed, I can see the benefit for things like Polsta says with tubes and cavities but not on any surface you intend to paint.

Agreed! I put some on a couple of rusty bits where the bonnet hinge is connected to the body. Couldn't really paint over that. I've given it another try....finger crossed....

[polsta]

I e tried fertan and for what I wanted it for I was not impressed, I can see the benefit for things like Polsta says with tubes and cavities but not on any surface you intend to paint.

same here, its not for "finished" areas, panels etc,

i just use it for areas like this, something all e30s would benefit from, and areas most of the people laughing, have no protection there at all

things like this in the bonnet, remove bonnet and put upside down, spray fertan in so it gets all in the bottom, leave for 24 hours, job done, no finishing or anything else, it wil sort any little bits hidden in there then lay dormant, long term prevention of the front edge of bonnet rusting from inside to out



in the doors, chassis, sills, areas you can not paint and great to then waxoyl over the top for extra protection

[Gavla]

All I can say is go and visit bilthamber.com, check out the products, read the reviews and make your own mind up.

[polsta]

gavla you just seem to be miss understanding what fertan does and what its used for, no ones saying bilt hamber are no good,that stuff looks excellent, its just a different thing for a different purpose that works in a different way , by dipping something in fertan for a week, showed that

do you not understand that you would not want to pour something that totaly strips rust to bare metal, in a sill, crevis, /area you can not then re paint ? but you would use that sort of stuff to dip things in like you have done, or a big exposed area you can then take back and primer and paint again

[snakebrain]

gavla you just seem to be miss understanding what fertan does

We understand. Fertan is a rust remover/treatment and BH Deox-c just removes rust. Can we talk about something else now?

[Brianmoooore]

If you want things like calipers back to bare bright metal, just get yourself a little washing soda and set up an electrolysis tank.

[Gavla]

gavla you just seem to be miss understanding what fertan does and what its used for

Polsta, I am not stupid, I do understand, Bilt Hamber does coatings for rust prevention etc as well, hence the link.

[Gavla]

If you want things like calipers back to bare bright metal, just get yourself a little washing soda and set up an electrolysis tank.

Bilt Hamber actually mention that this process together with their product works well and fast.

[Jozi]

If fertan "converts" rust to something else (lets be honest, it can not convert oxidised metal back to metal) doesn't that mean that under the converted layer you still have rust? How do you know how deep fertan has converted oxidation to what ever it converts?

I've never used so I won't knock it but Bilt Hamber Deox -c/gel are great products, I used lots of their gel and more recently the powder for smaller things.

[snakebrain]

If fertan "converts" rust to something else (lets be honest, it can not convert oxidised metal back to metal) doesn't that mean that under the converted layer you still have rust? How do you know how deep fertan has converted oxidation to what ever it converts?

I used a similar product I found on a shelf in a mate's dads garage - about 20 years old but still fine. He'd bought it to paint metal bins with and said it was excellent.

You basically clean off any loose rust with a wire brush and paint the rust-convertor on. It's oily in consistency in the can and amber brown in colour then as it takes to the metal it turns black, especially where there's rust. It dries to leave a thick layer of 'primer' on the metal that you can paint over and seems to penetrate and convert all the loose rust into a hard black material. It sands down to a good finish if you need it to as well. It would be good for something like subframes, where you want to strip them off and lay down a hard barrier to rust coming back, but for most things I'd probably rather just get them down to clean metal and paint up from there..

[Jos]

I'd imagine Fertan is the same as Vactan, tannic acid combined with an organic polymer, the rust is passivated to a metal-organic compound. Pretty good if you clear off the loose rust 1st.

I use Vactan overcoated with Jotamastic, pretty much what they do on ships/rigs. Seems to work ok

[snakebrain]

I'd imagine Fertan is the same as Vactan, tannic acid combined with an organic polymer, the rust is passivated to a metal-organic compound. Pretty good if you clear off the loose rust 1st.

I use Vactan overcoated with Jotamastic, pretty much what they do on ships/rigs. Seems to work ok

Do you have an M30 by any chance?