Info on 4.4 V8 into E30

[M5pilot]

There is a stunning blue E30 m3 which has a 4.4 BMW V8 installed.

Is there any info on this or how to do it?

Having driven a few V8 engined BMW's now (5 series and 7 series) I just love the power delivery they give.

Its superbly grunty low end and the power simply does not stop through the rev range. I also like the fact that the engine is not overly heavy and is quite refined.

I dont really want an engine I have to rev hard to get big power so this seems like the best way. Also as mentioned before, weight is a big issue and the aluminium V8 could potentially sit quite far back.

What you reckon? Engines arent especially expensive.

[stevetigger]

I dont know much about it......but having looked on ebay now for months for a 535 or similar. I keep seeing bmw's with these engines and it keeps me thinking! Surely its just as easy to put a 4.4 v8 in my car as the 3.5! I also would like info on this!

[ShepsEvo3]

Yes, I would like to some info on this. These engine respond extremely well to de-cat, lambda sensors disconnected and fully re-mapped with a Unichip fitted.

Trust me, I know. Fitted to an E30 would be a good "little" project!

[stevetigger]

http://www.e30.de/

Click on it, put 4.4 v8 in search(suche in german) to the right of the page and there you go, needs translating!

[M5pilot]

Just imagine a stainless exhaust to let that V8 make some noise (not too loud obvioulsy!).

With some nice long gearing it would make a really really nice conversion.

lets get some proper info!

[Frenchguy]

A few links :

http://www.bmw-power.de/Fahrzeuge/E30_3 ... ericht.htm

http://www.behindmatrix.com/e30/fotost/ ... f00599.htm

http://www.e30-floz.de.vu/

http://fin-bombers.org/Doni/340i/

http://www.bmwdriftswap.com/djbendix_v8e30.php

I'd say the biggest problems are the engine mounts, the brake booster and obviously the wiring. IIRC there were issues with nickasil blocks.

[glenn]

check out my thread sal,
i'd have thought most of the instalation issues would be in there, somewhere.
and yes they do make the right music, with the right exhaust.

[JazzMan]

The M62 is there's one in my dads 840Ci. Must be an awesome engine to have in a very much ligher E30! The 840 is such a nice car to waft along in, its a bit of a lump on the back roads though!

Here's a sound/video clip: http://www.caraudioarchive.net/reposito ... xhaust.avi

[astondg]

I was thinking about the 3L or 3.5L versions recently, similar capacity and cylinder arragement to some ferrari engines . Minus the flat plane crank though so it wouldn't sound the same and both those engines only seem to rev to about 6500 the same as most BMW engines. Does anyone know if they are fairly revy? What about with a bit of tuning and maybe a camshaft and stuff? I imagine they would have a reasonably short stroke and they are DOHC/Quadcam/whatever.

Only problem is I think the 3L and early 3.5L versions had that bore problem. They aren't high hp either but in a light E30 they wouldn't be too bad and a bit of tuning should help.

Aston

[chip-3door]

Sod all those crappy engines IMHO, if you are going to the trouble of doing it, it would have to be an LS7 as first choice for me, or an LS2 on a more modest budget.

Although saying that, i still think Glens car looks like an awesome bit of kit

[m-dtech]

rover v8 is readily availible.

rover t-series 2.0 turbo is 200 bhp in standard tune.

vauxhall redtop

cosworth is the way forward. 500bhp plus with the support, parts and plentiful expert racing techies to go with it.

m20 does what it was designed to do. pants for modding.

[chip-3door]

rover v8 is readily availible.

rover t-series 2.0 turbo is 200 bhp in standard tune.

vauxhall redtop

cosworth is the way forward. 500bhp plus with the support, parts and plentiful expert racing techies to go with it.

m20 does what it was designed to do. pants for modding.

Rover V8 is readily available and nice and light, but is a very poor design really, in fact i would go so far as to call it crap by modern standards.
Its got a bore/stroke ratio designed to rev, and a head that wont let it!

Rover lump is an option, although not a very glamourous one and not as easy to get bits for as something like the YB, so i wouldnt want it personally

vuaxhall redtop is ok, but the (relative to an M20) lack of torque might make some people feel it was a bit buzzy for day to day use, and going much past 200bhp starts to get expensive anyway, but would do 35mpg inplaces an M20 does 25mpg in an E30 i reckon if you used a motronic 2.8 one

cosworth is certainly a great option, especially cause its SO easy to find out how to get results from on a reaosnable budget.



But not one of those engines has:
28mpg + 6 bolt mains + lightweight construction + aweomse sound + tunable to MASSIVE numbers easily + 550bhp standard

Except the Ls7, with Ls2 falling short on only the standard power being 400bhp instead.


To get 6 litres in and it be lighter than with 2.5 is definately tempting, if we had the budget for it that is definately the route me and MarkT would go with ours.

[Chaos]

Sod all those crappy engines IMHO, if you are going to the trouble of doing it, it would have to be an LS7 as first choice for me, or an LS2 on a more modest budget.

not that crap - the 4.4 has about 286bhp and 310 lb ft (off the top of my head)
shud be tuneable with a few mods - cams, exhaust, chip etc.
and will give decent enuff mpg etc when not being caned.

i suspect its a bit more difficult than the 3.5 m30 conversion mind u.

[M5pilot]

The 4.4 V8 is not crap. Whats crap about it?

Its quite tunable and can easily give over 300bhp and 300lb.ft torque which is alot of power in an e30 chassis especially given that a majority of that torque is available throughout the rev range.

The engine sits in an E39 540i and that is no slouch.

I would personally love to fit an S38B38 (E34 M5 3.8 engine) but its not an easy task and is quite expensive. 340+ BHP and 295 lb.ft torque (of which 75% is available at 1800rpm). It allows an extremely heavy E34 to sprint to 60 in a mere 5.9 secs and 13 sec 1/4 miles. Oh and it makes a bloody excellent noise!

But I guess someones going to say that engine is shit aswell and its beter to fit some super reliable 400 bhp cossie engine....LOL!

[Geeman]

The S38B38 engine is as weak as they come. Super unreliable and constantly spitting cog teeth out...

What you need is a twin turbo supercharged M10 with a 200bhp Nitrous kit bolted on, complete with those special 'power' kits you can get on Ebay that piggy back some diode or other...

[astondg]

Sod all those crappy engines IMHO, if you are going to the trouble of doing it, it would have to be an LS7 as first choice for me, or an LS2 on a more modest budget.

oh wait, you were serious?

Those engines would have to be nearly my least favourite engines ever made. I guess it is all just personal opinion.

The 4.4L should be a bit more fuel efficient than the 6L LS2 and can you imagine trying to get that power and torque (and with that sort of torque curve) on the ground in an E30? They have enough trouble in the Corvette and even the heavy HSV's. I know the claimed fuel economy for the LS7 and LS2 are very good but from what I have seen real life is very different and the Corvette is an aerodynamically good car (and light, not compared to an E30 but compared to some of it's competitors) and it has gear ratios for economy including a very tall top gear. Comparing engines directly (same cars, gearing, etc.) I think it wouldn't be quite as effecient as many other engines like the 4.4L V8 from BMW.

I also am not a fan of the sound they make, but that is just a personal thing too.

The BMW V8's might not be the best engines ever but I don't think they would be a bad choice, especially the M5 engine .

Aston

[M5pilot]

[quote="Geeman"]The S38B38 engine is as weak as they come. Super unreliable and constantly spitting cog teeth out...
quote]

Really? seeing as they take qute a battering pulling nearly 1.7 tonnes around and are revved to 7k all the time and still manage to reach 200k shows to me they are fairly reliable. Poor maintenance and people putting stupid chips in the M5's is usually the culprit behind premature engine failure.

[m-dtech]

yeah but with a bmw engine you can only get good bhp figures by getting a larger capacity. 4.4 v8 and your still only talking 280 to 300bhp. thats shite.

cosworth 2 litre lump and you can get the fuel consumpion, light engine and waaaaaaayyy over 300bhp easily and affordably.

why be a brand snob?

[Zayyan]

yeah but with a bmw engine you can only get good bhp figures by getting a larger capacity. 4.4 v8 and your still only talking 280 to 300bhp. thats shite.

Later BMW 4.4 V8s are 333bhp standard which you can't say is bad....

And the 300bhp of the Cosworth engine is with a fecking great turbo!

[M5pilot]

Id rathet have NA power any day, no need for a turbo to spin up.

Fuel economy from what ive heard on these 300+ bhp cossies is worse than a 4.4 v8. Well, youd expect it to be, its turbo charged!

Oh, and then there is the noise of that wonderful V8 and moster monster torque available at anything off idle.

Drive a heavy 740i and you'll understand the meaning of torque anywhere in the rev range. A 740i would best even the best 2.7's over 60 mph.

Its not all about Figures, there is such a thing as engine note, throttle response and the way the powerr is delivered.

[Geeman]

Sal... that was a joke, following on from your previous thread dude!

[M5pilot]

[JazzMan]

Consumption on an 840Ci with the 4.4 ltr seems to average out at 19.5Mpg - when taking it easy on the motorway that will go up to the high 20's. In an E30 shell there's less weight to pull around.

[M5pilot]

Even more reason to throw it in then.

I will most likely be in touch with Glenn in the new year and go through the pit falls.

I've always wanted a V8 and in an E30 Touring it would be sublime.

[glenn]

I will most likely be in touch with Glenn in the new year and go through the pit falls.

I've always wanted a V8 and in an E30 Touring it would be sublime.

no problem sal.
i'll be putting all the m5 running gear into another shell shortly so it'll all be fresh in my mind, also there's one or two thing's i want to do a little differently.
i have the utmost respect for the 'YB' and what can be had from them,
i've had quite a few of them,
but when it comes to reliability, i think the bmw engines are in a different league.
only my opinion, i know.
but this thread was for info on a m62 transplant,
and not a 'which engine is best' discussion

[M5pilot]

Cheers Glen,

how well does the V8 fit into the E30 chassis? I havent even thought about what gearbox would go in.

What Id really like to put in it is an Alpina B10 V8 engine (347bhp and stupid torque with very flat torque curve). This engine in the real world is a real competitor to the M5 engine.

I showed your conversion to Bexleys and they really liked it and appreciated it.

[Andy335Touring]

Sal, i'd guess you would need the rare 6 speed manual from the E34 for the M62 ?

Did they do a manual 540 E39 ?

[Chaos]

The S38B38 engine is as weak as they come. Super unreliable and constantly spitting cog teeth out...

Really? seeing as they take qute a battering pulling nearly 1.7 tonnes around and are revved to 7k all the time and still manage to reach 200k shows to me they are fairly reliable. Poor maintenance and people putting stupid chips in the M5's is usually the culprit behind premature engine failure.

i also thought the 3,8 wasnt so hot on reliability and longevity and doesnt make its book figures (like most ///M engines dont)

whereas the earlier 3.6 will do 200k+ and makes its figures all day long.

[chip-3door]

Sod all those crappy engines IMHO, if you are going to the trouble of doing it, it would have to be an LS7 as first choice for me, or an LS2 on a more modest budget.

oh wait, you were serious?

Those engines would have to be nearly my least favourite engines ever made. I guess it is all just personal opinion.

The 4.4L should be a bit more fuel efficient than the 6L LS2 and can you imagine trying to get that power and torque (and with that sort of torque curve) on the ground in an E30? They have enough trouble in the Corvette and even the heavy HSV's. I know the claimed fuel economy for the LS7 and LS2 are very good but from what I have seen real life is very different and the Corvette is an aerodynamically good car (and light, not compared to an E30 but compared to some of it's competitors) and it has gear ratios for economy including a very tall top gear. Comparing engines directly (same cars, gearing, etc.) I think it wouldn't be quite as effecient as many other engines like the 4.4L V8 from BMW.

I also am not a fan of the sound they make, but that is just a personal thing too.

The BMW V8's might not be the best engines ever but I don't think they would be a bad choice, especially the M5 engine .

Aston

I would run it on DTA personally, as i have a spare P8 Pro kicking about, and its got programmable slip traciton control, so putting it down would be easy, but anyway all you need to do is use less throttle, thats the one thing i prefer about N/A over stuff like most cossies etc with a turbo because as soon as you come on boost you make stupid amounts of torque even at part throttle.
Thats part of the reason i have an S8 Ecu for my cossie, it has a map of boost values for RPM vs TPS, so you can map the boost to be more controllable.

Ive never heard anyone moan about too much torque in an N/A before though (cause you just use less throttle) so you are a first in that respect.

[astondg]

Ive never heard anyone moan about too much torque in an N/A before though (cause you just use less throttle) so you are a first in that respect.

I am definately not moaning, just saying it could get difficult, and if I am the first then you don't read/watch a lot of car reviews or listen to race drivers much. They don't really complain either but they do say with that a lot of torque can be tricky and even slow in cases because it is hard to get it on the ground.

No traction control for me thanks (on the road maybe but not on the track), I would rather do it myself no matter how much power or torque I had but I would rather only have as much of each as the tyres/suspension/chassis can reasonably handle, anymore than that is really just wasted. Anyway I have an EMS computer at the moment, not sure if it has traction control, but if I went to a decent engine I would probably get a Motec anyway which does most things.

Throttle control is a little more involved than just not using as much throttle. I see it all the time at the track and especially on the dirt, cars with similar suspension, LSD, and wider stickier tyres than mine can't get out of the corners as quick as I can because they have a lot more power and torque and they struggle to get it down effieciently, even with good drivers.

By the way, I like NA engines too, just not those ones . They have thrown a lot of technology at that LS7 though with titanium, etc., etc.

Aston

[Batch]

In estonia one guy has a bit modified e34 540i - he has fitted twin turbo on it. Cant call the numbers of power/torque, but in 1 mile top speed race he beat porsches and i suppose even ferraris. I'll try to find out something more about his car

[chip-3door]

In estonia one guy has a bit modified e34 540i - he has fitted twin turbo on it. Cant call the numbers of power/torque, but in 1 mile top speed race he beat porsches and i suppose even ferraris. I'll try to find out something more about his car

Sounds awesome, definately find out more if you can

[chip-3door]

astondg, i agree that traction control on tracks isnt for me, its not as much fun, but on the other hand if its getting out a corner quickly that you want, no driver can really compete with the electronics, so its all down to the situation if i am doing a trackday i would sooner control it myself, but if i was racing i would use any technilogical advantage i could get.

[astondg]

How good is the traction control that computer does? I know the stuff they used in F1 was better than the drivers could do but the (still fairly advanced) systems in normal road cars (even the new F430's fairly highly aclaimed system) isn't usually any better than a good driver can do. Jason Plato shows this in one of the Fifth Gear episodes.

I guess that all depends on tyres and suspension setup too, road tyres and setups usually respond to a little bit of wheelspining and lateral movement but race tyres and setups don't so much.

You are right though, it does seem like the way forward. I guess I'll just have to be a bit backward. I definately wouldn't mind traction and even stability control for road driving no matter how good a driver I think I am.

Aston

[chip-3door]

The P8 pro is really good, has programmable slip so you can allow it to slip by a certain percentage and then not any more, and it can handle 4 wheel sensor inputs so it works on corners too, although most people just tend to do it with 2 wheels for straightline use
when it has 4 sensors i assume it takes the average of front versus back but i dont know that for certain.

will know more when i play with mine as ive only driven a couple of cars with it using TC and i didnt set them up.