Alpina E21 vs Hartge E30 on the dragstrip

[tcbracing]

Dear E30 afficianados
Thought I would share this story with you guys!
(As I think it may have a happier ending later this year)
Ok the Challenge!
This coming weekend we have round 2 of the MDRA meet in the Isle of Man
(Manx Drag Racing Association)
If you recall Herman (B6 E21) managed to win the 14.30 class with a 14.32 @101 mph in July- the plan was to have Herman race against my Hartge H26.


See:

So this means that we will be using "Big Red" my E30 Hartge H26 alone - the boys are sorting out a few issues here - all likely to be resolved before weekend though!
Original plan was to pitch one against the other!
So which car is faster? The driver will be the same- Me- so that parameter may be ignored!

First some info on "Big Red"
It is a 1991 reg E30 325i Sport that I have owned since 1994, and which I treated to a full Hartge conversion in period.
the top end has recently been rebuilt- staggering how large the valves are!
Slightly old P6000 Pirellis- 102k from new
But a lovely lumpy idle - it sounds far meaner than "Herman" the Alpina
Old dyno sheets say around 195 bhp
It has a Hartge shortshifter - Herman now has a shortshifter from a Z3- but during timed runs it did not............ on one run gearknob came off in my hand!! A weak spot certainly
It is certainly easier to drive smoothly/ well balanced- perhaps it is a case of familiarity?

Over to you guys -the experts.................. WDYT?

We may run Sat or Sunday depending upon weather
Answer will be available on Monday[/img]

[tcbracing]

Well .........
Saturday was a washout

so we turned up today for the Ultimate Showdown!

In lane 1 we had Steve's E30 325i sport with nice Shrick cam, good exhaust and chipped and lane 2 was Big Red- Hartge E30

And in the background the target of a 14.32 @101 mph from Herman the Alpina!

Well I am afraid it really wasn't even close!

The Alpina cruised it!

Not only did Big Red lose every 1/4 mile against steve's E30 - I also lost the final street class against (ahem- I would rather not mention the opposition!)
Well OK it was a FWD Peugeot 106 GTI - with a remap and Toyos on splitties-- OUCH!

Big Red managed only a 15.80 @ 87 mph

In fairness (?) to Hartge I really don't think it was running as it should! Still having trouble with fluctuating temp guage - filled up with coolant at track, as well as a slight misfire under load when I tried a steep hillclimb en route for home
the standard 325i Sport E30 does exactly this time according to:
http://e30world.com/specifications/BMW-E30-specs-table

So it is Alpina 1 Hartge 0

Or put another way:
E21 1 E30 0

The thing about this is that we had great fun at this RWYB day= unlimited runs for £35 and as I mentioned earlier that all important timing slip- but in Big Red's case - a slight embarrassment!!
As we all say the bullshit stops when the flag drops- I guess Hartge will have to live with that- until we get the creases ironed out!
Next weekend we have a track day to try- quite complicated to try each car against eachother (given Herman's interior is only partially complete!)

[bss325i]

I doubt an E30 with a 195bhp M20 will do a 14.3.

EDIT: Must type faster!

[tcbracing]

A friend of mine who had a racing E30 has promised to give me a couple of his reprogrammed ECUs - all delimited to try out

I shall get Steve ("the victorious") to fit same and will see what happens! Stop gloating Steve!

I do remember that Birds had trouble Hartge'sing my ECU since it was one of the very last E30 Sports (1991) it came with a cat- and mine was the first Cat equipped E30 that Birds had converted to H26

When DMS Automotive flew a mechanic over to remap my ZT-T (and a couple of Porsches- not mine!) they couldn't do a thing with Big Red's ECU either!

Will keep you all posted

Let's have more Drag times here of your E30s please?

latest News
Big Red has had a new Hartge Head, and the Racing ECU fitted, various induction air leaks sorted, new steering coupling and rear spring mounts and is now ready to roll

can't wait to try it again this summer for a rematch

[bss325i]

Ok, my 325i sport with the only mod being a btb2 six branch, dyno'ed at 185bhp and 190lbft did a 15.3 at santa pod.

[Rodderz]

I would like that E21!

[sunnysr]

I like it ,good little read ,this year is all about the drag racing for me , i have a tech 1 sport ,that will be turbo by the end of the season all going well , im running it kind of standard for a start just chipped ecu and light flywheel for a start ,dont have a clue what it will run but the car is light the tank is now in the boot so traction should be better from the line.very nice looking hartge

[Kedge]

Love that E21

[bss325i]

Nice cars by the way!

Are those recaros i can see in the red sport?

Any more pics of both cars?

[tcbracing]

[quote="bss325i"]Nice cars by the way!

Are those recaros i can see in the red sport?


They sure are real Recaros

see my question in other post re these self reclining

[tcbracing]

I thought I would update on "Big Red"

I ended up organising a full bare metal respray windwos out etc.
Picked him up last weekend

Drove to work today-all seems fine. It has a new Hartge Head, new leather Recaros and those refurb wheels

paintwork is A1 (and Very Red)


Drove Big Red to the office today- you can see how idle my colleagues are if you look around how empty the office car park is!
some photos- now I have mastered my flkrr account takeover by the dreadful Yahoo





Really great paint job- I still have some odds and ends to sort out- I have ordered the correct H26 badge and I suspect I may have to change the battery

Anyone know where to find the OEM BMW alarm/locking unit? I remember replacing it some 10 years ago!

[Cypriotgeeza]

Only thing I would remove is them eyebrows!

Other than that gorgeous car and a nice read!

[tcbracing]

I know- they certainly divide opinions

I remember when I had them fitted all the other racers (I was competing in Anglo American Challenge at the time) teased me about being "max Power"!

thing is I had them in period in the mid 90's................

[Cypriotgeeza]

I know- they certainly divide opinions

I remember when I had them fitted all the other racers (I was competing in Anglo American Challenge at the time) teased me about being "max Power"!

thing is I had them in period in the mid 90's................

Its funny because I went through the same thing on my previous E30 and I actually liked them at the time!

[tcbracing]

I think I was looking for the Iso Grifo hooded headlights http://www.in2motorsports.com/greatest- ... ifo-front/
- or the last Middlebridge Scimitars (can't find any pictures of these anymore)

It does seem to encourage tailgating- more so than my daily driver Audi!

[bmw-mad]

Nice read that was!

Great looking cars, The e21 looks stunning

[tcbracing]

evrybody here seems to love Herman my Alpina- he is very rare since there is only one other genuine one in the british isles
lots of pictures here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59577851@ ... 9093735944

Herman has appeared in E21 Forum as well as in Autocar.................

[Cypriotgeeza]

evrybody here seems to love Herman my Alpina- he is very rare since there is only one other genuine one in the british isles
lots of pictures here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/59577851@ ... 9093735944

Herman has appeared in E21 Forum as well as in Autocar.................

Gorgeous!

[reggid]

that is cracking trap speed for the alpina. to do that in a stock weight series 2 e30 (which is nudging 3000lb with driver and fuel etc) you need about 240bhp.

awesome cars btw

[tcbracing]

Herman has a nos matching engine (2. but the head from a B9 (3.4) and souped up ecu and exhaust- so I think an unfair comparison?

[reggid]

i imagine e21 are decently lighter than a series 2 even despite m30 lump? even the early series 1 are a good 200lb lighter

[DanThe]

Old skool cool right there

[tcbracing]

Found this thread - I seem to have been more forthcoming about Big Red in the E21 Forum...........

Anyway as Herman broke a driveshaft in mid Manx Classic 2013- I then completed the last event Ramsey Llergy Frissell H/C in "Big Red" my Hartge

please note that this is on street rather tired tyres! Go on play the tape.................:and enjoy

[youtube][/youtube]

[HartgeH27]

Brilliant read of the thread and great video !

[Cypriotgeeza]

Nice vid!

[HartgeRaul]

I like story.

I remember my e21 Alpina B6 2.8 218hp was faster than my 1984 Hartge H26 193hp and also beet my 88 e30 m3 of the line. My buddy still has the cars.

[tcbracing]

How amazing to find a guy so far away with exactly the same taste in cars! (Power of the internet!)

You don't happen to own a 68 Camaro and a 79 V8 CJ7 Jeep as well by any chance (as I do)?

[HartgeRaul]

No American cars.

My buddy still have my cars. I'm trying to finish up my Alpina B6 3.5 turbo clone build. I would love to drive to drive my old Alpina B6 2.8. I love the big six torque. On the handling goes to the e30....

[tcbracing]

have decided to go OEM classic look and have ditched the eyebrows! Think it looks better- especially after seeing the M3 Evo in red on front cover of Classic Car mag

the team have given me a shopping list of service items to replace- mostly suspension bushes and similar- after they had given it a full inspection 2 service.

[Cypriotgeeza]

have ditched the eyebrows! Think it looks better

Spot on mate! So much better now!

[tcbracing]

Hi
I was trying to update my avatar showing big red without eyebrows (and a more up to date picture of my son who is now 14 in top picture) and it threw me out of the site

is there a problem?

[Cypriotgeeza]

Hi
I was trying to update my avatar showing big red without eyebrows (and a more up to date picture of my son who is now 14 in top picture) and it threw me out of the site

is there a problem?

Unfortunately the site has been neglected since the facebook one became popular!

I still prefer to sit here and read a nice build thread as opposed to comments on fb but that's just me..

[tcbracing]

I agree!

seems I am on this time- but I am often told I don't have access to the site for some reason

[tcbracing]

I know this thread has been dormant for a while- But now I have the answers a healthy Hartge H26 vs Alpina B6 28

We know that Herman the Alpina managed a best of 14.32 and won the 14.30 bracket class on the first run

well guess what?



Big Red managed to "win" the 15.30 second class with the first run of 15.35 @ 90 mph- I say "win" as there is a second day of competition tomorrow.

NB there was a fearsome headwind today- Manx Straightliners had reversed the track!
So in essence the Alpina is both lighter and more powerful than the Hartge I was surprised that 1 second was the difference- but the key here is that at last we managed to obtain a half decent time over the 15.80 second run with failing cyl head.

[Tedswagon]

Great to read about how your ownership has varied over the years. Keep the updates coming.