upgrade to a 318is

[dark_sounds]

hi just wondering, i know with the golf mk2's if you got a 1.8 16v, u can get the 2.0 L bottom end from tha mk3 and stick it on no probs thus giving u a 2.0 16v on a mk2 chassis.. anything similar with the 318is? to increase capacity.... slyly ;)

or a 320i even? can you just increase capacity without replacing the whole engine??

[tim_s]

the only easy upgrade is 1.9 pistons, rods and crank from an m44, but the crank isn't as nice as the e30 one (not a big prob really though).

318is capacity upgrades are a pain - i should know, am in the middle of doing one at the moment. the golf's much easier to modify.
the 318is does respond well with chip, lighter flywheel and a few other odds and sods, but unless you want to spend big bucks, thats about all.
The 320i is a 6 pot, not a four, so no good!

[eko]

dark_sounds Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject: upgrade to a 318is

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi just wondering, i know with the golf mk2's if you got a 1.8 16v, u can get the 2.0 L bottom end from tha mk3 and stick it on no probs thus giving u a 2.0 16v on a mk2 chassis.. anything similar with the 318is? to increase capacity.... slyly ;)

or a 320i even? can you just increase capacity without replacing the whole engine??

Cant see why you would want to bother.
If you want more power/tuning etc why not just buy a 325i?

[tim_s]

i see your point, but those aren't the only considerations.
for a start a 325i is loads more to insure even than a modded 318is - a 325i sport costs more to insure than a e36 328i. 318is shells are generally very tidy too.
m20 is also an older and less advanced engine than the m42. has a timing belt rather than chain, 2v per cylinder etc. also 4 pots make for better balance/handling.
and a 318is with a 2l and high compression would be easily faster than a 325i and better on fuel too.

[Eddy]

i see your point, but those aren't the only considerations.
for a start a 325i is loads more to insure even than a modded 318is - a 325i sport costs more to insure than a e36 328i. 318is shells are generally very tidy too.
m20 is also an older and less advanced engine than the m42. has a timing belt rather than chain, 2v per cylinder etc. also 4 pots make for better balance/handling.
and a 318is with a 2l and high compression would be easily faster than a 325i and better on fuel too.

But the 318is lacks the sound simphony of 6 pistons....and the low down torqe.....

[Eddy]

Forgot to write:

1,8-->2,0 can be achivced by using the pistons from the 2002 bm,and offcorse the engine block has to be bored down to the pistons diameter....

[tim_s]

agree about the noise and torque, but a revvy m42 will sound pretty good and rev like a good'un . 2002 pistons can be used in m10 based engines, not M40 based engines. they are too big for the m42.

[Eddy]

uuuffff forgot about that...what is the alternative then? are there any stroker kits avalible for the m42?

[tim_s]

alternative pistons are either custom or whatever bm ones you can find using your imagination. 87mm's the max bore. nothing really bolts straight up without decking/pocketing etc but anything m5x/s5x will go with work. cranks there are quite a few options raiding the bm parts bin but they're all pricey, m44 is the cheapest and easiest option cos with its pistons the crank to deck distance is the same so no machining or head-scratching. hartge/acs also did a 2.1, hartge also did a 2.3 but was too long a stroke imo.

[cheesebox]

the 318is does respond well with chip, lighter flywheel and a few other odds and sods

And a bbtb of course...

Out of interest, any idea who could supply a lightened flywheel for the M42 engine, or modify a standard one? Or is it a skilled DIY job?

[tim_s]

cheesebox, i'll tell you for certain soon. i have an m40 flywheel sat in my garage at the mo that i've been considering, when my engine rebuild is finished i'm going to try to mate it up.
otherwise the m20 flywheel, throw-out bearing and starter gear together will go, but to me its always seemed like too much hard work for a small mod.

[tomstickland]

I think the 318iS engine is best left alone. It's never going to produce significantly more power due to capacity and it's actually the least important part of the car. It just does the boring bit of getting the car moving - the wheels and suspension then allow you to get on with the interesting bit of going round corners.

[tim_s]

i think tom has a point. that's why mine has had everything but the engine done so far, suspension mods etc are more important to me.
i am a little bored of the engine though so am ready to get a load more out of mine. they can produce significantly more power if you go out to 2.1 litres and up the CR like i'm intending. there are m42s out there with 200bhp. plus don't forget the s42 is based on the m42, so even higher power is attainable.
an m50 conversion is obviously the sensible route though, i'm doing the m42 cos i want a bit of a challenge and to have something different.

[Dan318-is]

i think tom has a point. that's why mine has had everything but the engine done so far, suspension mods etc are more important to me.
i am a little bored of the engine though so am ready to get a load more out of mine. they can produce significantly more power if you go out to 2.1 litres and up the CR like i'm intending. there are m42s out there with 200bhp. plus don't forget the s42 is based on the m42, so even higher power is attainable.
an m50 conversion is obviously the sensible route though, i'm doing the m42 cos i want a bit of a challenge and to have something different.

S42? you mean s14?

[Kedge]

No the S14 is based on the M10 mate.

[Dan318-is]

i no that lol

i think he means the m42 was based on the s14

[tim_s]

no, not the s14. the s42 was the engine that replaced the s14 for use in certain touring cars, i think DTM ones and possibly even BTCC. i have some pics somewhere. they were 2l with throttle bodies and gave out up to 300bhp. most definitely not the s14. bear with me and i'll put a pic up to whet your appetite!

[Dan318-is]

chrikey

didnt even no it existeed!

was guna say its unlike you to get your facts mixed up

waiting in anticipation...

[tim_s]

here you go fella. i believe they weighed less and put out more power than the s14 race engines. you're gonna like this!

[Dan318-is]

duuuudee

MONSTER!!

what car was that in?

r they readily available

[m-dtech]

another one for the "Technical Section"

[redrobbie]

more tim, we want more information tim please.

Give "how to guide"

[astondg]

I don't think they are very common, only made for the touring cars as far as I know. They used them out here too but I think still in 1800cc form and with about 280bhp. I have an article on one of those touring cars somewhere, I don't think there is much about the engine but it gives power and torque specs.

Aston

[redrobbie]

Been searching everywhere, have a look. E36 peeps have been at it.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ht=itb+m44

[tim_s]

lol sorry! didn't notice this until now what with the zone being down an all.

s42 is a motorsport only engine and there's a lot of myth surrounding it etc. but if you go to the right websites or have the bmw part nos (from motorsport catalogues) you can get parts for it. you better have a huuuuge wallet though!

it is 2l i believe, 86bore x 85 stroke ish. mb the aussie one is different but i guess the capacity just depended on what championship the car was entered into. it has slide throttle bodies and 8 injectors as seen in that pic above and rev very high. have solid lifters obviously.

diy: you'll need bigger bore and stroke, massively high CR, bigger valves and seriously flowed head with mad cams, throttle bodies and custom management to make a decent replica

as for throttle bodies, they're not as bad as you think to fit. the bore spacing in the m42 is the same as the e36 m3 which is a bit of a gift, but the ports on the head are different, so although e36 throttle bodies will fit, they'll need a sandwich plate to work.
there is a fellow on www.e36coupe.co.uk who has done this, you could easily get an engineering firm to knock something up fairly cheap.
or you can buy kits from dbilas, gttechnic etc.
as for solid lifters s50 ones will go on.
once my 2.1 conversion is complete i'll be looking at other areas to start playing with (head, cams, t/bs etc).

[redrobbie]

Thanks for showing this find tim, I would have never known .

So it's possible but you need a big wallet! I can't get this thing out my head. A S42 under your bonnet would be an achievement whatever the costs.

Better start saving

[tim_s]

you only need a big wallet if you intend to bend over for bmw motorsport parts. a selective raiding of the bmw parts bin and some custom stuff and you can get some decent results from m42s without going nuts.
my 2.1 should be interesting when i finally get it finished for a start! and there are other m42s out there with throttle bodies etc putting out silly power.

[Dan318-is]

that engine is the nuts!

Tim what if i want to throttle body my standard IS

where do i purchase them what makes are best do you rekon?

iv seen one m42 iirc with nearly 200 running standalone and TB but i dont know whic ones!

[tim_s]

if you don't want to mess about with custom bits i reckon dbilas are the danglies. i have a picture somewhere of an e30 m42 with them on it. reason being its a bolt-on upgrade, so no messing around with throttle linkage, TPS or sandwich plates, you can retain your AFM until you get the standalone on, and it looks spot on. they're dead pricey though, think prolly run to a bit under Ԛ£1000 all in posted here etc. i love this bit of kit, its well nice.
there's loads of other options, but i reckon that's your best one unless you're into custom stuff and more work.

mind you, if i were you they'd be the last thing on my mind! I wouldn't run to throttle bodies etc unless you want really peaky power while sacrificing grunt, and to get anything out of it you'll need wilder cams, a much higher CR, solid lifters to let her rev more freely etc. oh yeah and mb a solid crank pulley too.
You'll prolly find on a standard car it won't give much gain at all, you may lose driveability and torque while gaining a bit up top. i think on its own dbilas quote 15bhp or so. they don't tell you what it does for the spread of power and low down grunt, which is where you'd see sacrifices being made!
its not really the route i'd go down as my car's a road car.
i would seriously consider other cheaper mods first.

[Dan318-is]

thats liek any mod, companies tjust give power figures but they dnot tell u it destroys torque

i qont torque more than power anyway

i think once iv finished college i mite get my hand on a second hand m42 and play around with the bottom end

tim what pistons r u using in your m42 block?

[E30Mark]

1.8L 260bhp M42 engine...... http://www.gttechnic.com/gt2_gt3.html

[Dan318-is]

Jeees-arse!

thats quite some modifications!

[redrobbie]

So tim when do you think your conversion will be finished?

[tim_s]

gttechnic do a load of stuff. i was really interested in what they did with the crank pulley a little while back but found out they did away with the crank sensor (custom management) and mounted a solid alloy one so no good for me. they sell throttle bodies btw too mate i seem to remember.
dan, if you want to mod your 318is, start with the basics and work up, don't bother with exotic stuff like throttle bodies. what have you got at the moment? make sure its running spot on first, before messing about. get the fault codes read, put it on some rollers and make sure you're getting what you should.
a bottom end change is probably a good idea if you want to start modding.
if your car's done many miles and the bottom end is tired, i know its looked down upon (cos the crank isn't as nice), but i'd seriously consider fitting an M44 bottom end.
if you don't want to do that, do the head!
remember both these optoins will also be renewing important parts of your engine and making sure they're up to future mods, rather than trying to get more power out of a 15yr old engine.

[tim_s]

redrobbie, i'm waiting on pistons which are coming from the states. i've been cleaning up the block today, trying to get the water channels rust-free. hopefully the pistons will come in a week or so, and will be putting the block into an engineering firm in the next few weeks to be checked and bored. i need the pistons before i can really get close to finishing, i need to c.c. them then work out which rods i'll use and whether i'll need to deck the pistons. then its just getting the machining done and putting it all together.
so maybe a month or so. want to look into ARP rod bolts too. there's no rush really, only that i'm itching to get it in!