HELP!! SUPERCHARGING

[stoic]

What about converting to LPG and fitting a NOS kit? This way you'll get up to 250 bhp and it'll still be cheaper to run than a standard car. All for only Ԛ£1500.

[chip-3door]

let me tease you all with an excert from my dyno chart.

@ 3.2K rpms she makes 218.9 lbs/ft and 196.2 bhp I'll not reveal anymore than that though there has to be some mysteries between us all

Those numbers do not work mate, sorry, but you have been led up the garden path there by some dodgy rollers or something.


BHP is a figure thats calculated from torque and RPM as a measure of "work done"

It is define as:

Torque / 5252 * rpm

So 218.9 lbs/ft @ 3200 rpm = 133.4 BHP, it is phsyically IMPOSSIBLE for it to equal anything else as thats the very definition of horsepower in the first place!

Its absolutely cast in stone, it HAS to be that way by definition.

As clearly as 0 degrees celcius = 32 fahrenheit, there isnt ever a situation where 0C equals 54F instead.

Either your torque figure is far higher than you say, or your BHP figure is far lower, or a combination of the two, there just is not ANY alternative.

[Jimbob]

Ummm, Ant is hardly a man that can be 'led up the garden path' mate

[Chaos]

Ummm, Ant is hardly a man that can be 'led up the garden path' mate

nor is chip

what he said there is pretty much set in stone.
power is a function of torque and there is a given equation to work one out from the other. as such the figures Ant gave CANNOT be possible.

[stevetigger]

Just reading this thread with a little interest, from what I have read you either need to spend VERY big bucks for a nice BHP in an E30 or transplant a VERY big engine......either way, costs a lotta money! I want big BHP for as little money as possible. Thats why I am going to do a 3.5 transplant which inturn should see a nice 220bhp. Then in theory my car should go like an E30 M3!!

[chip-3door]

Ummm, Ant is hardly a man that can be 'led up the garden path' mate

Well im sure when Ant pops on then he can explain why he posted figures that arent true, cause its either:

A severe typo that he didnt even notice when people were quoting it

He was led up the garden path

He wishes to mislead people



I know nothing about the guy whatsoever and im not trying to cause trouble, im just pointing out that the figures do not work, normally when people have BS figures its cause they believe some muppet on a set of rolelrs who shouldnt really be operation them so thats my guess, ie led up the garden path.

Still an interesting car though, and im honestly NOT having a go, but facts are facts and the facts are that those figures are pure and simple BS

[Ant]

Ahh, heard rumours of some grumbling

The BHP is a measured figure, the software calculates the torque and then assigns a value. I have no idea if the dyno is correct and TBH dont care, its a diagnostic tool, not pub talk ammo.

My car is overfulling over 4K to the tune of running @ 0.75 lambda, dont think for one second that the cars 100% pukka, the power delivery is currently a little like a turbodiesel, ie a very narrow power band quite low in the rpms range and all comes in one big shove, then tails off as it drowns in fuel.

I will update in the new year once better tuned for WOT, and then you'll all be welcome to peruse the final dyno.

Until then, make up your own minds, oh sorry some already have.......

[chip-3door]

Ahh, heard rumours of some grumbling

The BHP is a measured figure, the software calculates the torque and then assigns a value. I have no idea if the dyno is correct and TBH dont care, its a diagnostic tool, not pub talk ammo.

Fair enough, its all about relative values before and after of course, thats the REAL use of a set of rollers.

But just to confirm for you, they are DEFINATELY not working right, not by a very long way.

But providing they are consistantly wrong by the same amounts its ok as it still gives you that all important relative figure



Ive never heard of any set of rollers measuring BHP directly though, its normally calculated from torque not the other way around!
or is this one of those "g meter" efforts that go in the car?

[Chaos]

The BHP is a measured figure, the software calculates the torque and then assigns a value.

thats not possible.
a dyno be it a rolling road or an engine bench dyno measures the torque.

and then works out the bhp from the given torque and revs.


see here for example
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_r_road.html

[chip-3door]

The BHP is a measured figure, the software calculates the torque and then assigns a value.

thats not possible.
a dyno be it a rolling road or an engine bench dyno measures the torque.

and then works out the bhp from the given torque and revs.


see here for example
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_r_road.html

Not if its one of those crappy little "in car" jobs you buy on ebay for a coupel of quid.

[Chaos]

Not if its one of those crappy little "in car" jobs you buy on ebay for a coupel of quid.

lol - thats not a dyno tho is it
thats simply a g-meter

[chip-3door]

chaos, indeed its not what i would call a "dyno" personally, but i know loads of kids in saxos and stuff that swear by them, LOL, seriously though at the end of the day, providing its consistant you can measure change anyway that you want.


What ecu are you using then Ant?

Is there a thread about the mods done on your car?

[Jon_Bmw]

Pretty confident in saying Ant is using Megasquirt but i can never remember which version.

I haven't made up my mind but Ant doesn't seem like the sort of person that says "mine is bigger and better than yours" sounds to me like some duff info has been thrown his way.

But i do agree with chip and chaos, that all the rolling roads i thought measured torque and thus got bhp from that.

We shall have to wait to the new year and hopefully ant will have a dyno plot to show us and i think it will be very good

[Chaos]

im not (and i doubt chip is either) dissing ants car or knowledge.
just saying the fact is hes been given some bunk figures by whoever dyno'd his car.

[Ant]

I have no interest in a pissing contest, indeed I only posted to help encourage others into forced induction thinking, theres a lot to be said for it, and I dont mean in the pub.

I dont give a fcuk about the figures, the only one I was interested in was the AFR, and I have some work to do on that front still.

as for the car.....

std cat ready M20 B25 Block/Head/Cam
Megasquirt-n-Spark-Extra standalone ecu ( modded V2.2 PCB )
42 lbs/hr injectors x6
BBR cast 6 into 1 single entry log manifold
T3, makes 4psi @ 2.5K rpms , max with large FMIC 10 Psi
Front Mounted intercooler ( volvo )
Charge pipes in 2.5 inch (hard)
Custom 2.75 inch downpipe into 2x2.25 inch mating to standard centre section with mongoose rear box

needs leaning off over 4K, drives great below that, top end blunted by overly rich mix ( in process of sorting )

Very much a work in progress, but still the claims of BS are ringing in my ears fellas.

Merry Crimbo

[Chaos]

but still the claims of BS are ringing in my ears fellas.

not sure what youve been reading then.

i for one arent disputing your knowledge, time, effort etc.
all im saying is that by the recognised way of working out bhp the figures are wrong - but thats down to what youve been given, not your own work.

[stevetigger]

but still the claims of BS are ringing in my ears fellas.

not sure what youve been reading then.

i for one arent disputing your knowledge, time, effort etc.
all im saying is that by the recognised way of working out bhp the figures are wrong - but thats down to what youve been given, not your own work.

How do you work out BHP figures?

[chip-3door]

sounds like a very nice basic install, im sure it will all go ok.

do you have the software to autotune your megasquirt against a target AFR?

if so i can draw you up a table to use if you like, you will have the fuelling sorted in an afternoon easily.

[Chaos]

How do you work out BHP figures?

u use the torque figure and revs with a basic equation that remains the same for any engine/car.

bhp = torque x rpm / 5252 (altho most ppl use 5250 for ease of calculations)

[chip-3door]

How do you work out BHP figures?

u use the torque figure and revs with a basic equation that remains the same for any engine/car.

bhp = torque x rpm / 5252 (altho most ppl use 5250 for ease of calculations)

Yep, thats spot on ALWAYS

Hence i pointed out that Ant's figures absolutely 101% HAVE to be BS, there just simply isnt an alternative, unless the BHP stood for Bar Horse Power instead, ie the figure you tell people in the pub, I wrote a guide to calculating this many years ago, i will post it in the pub talk section for reference.

[chip-3door]

im not (and i doubt chip is either) dissing ants car or knowledge.
just saying the fact is hes been given some bunk figures by whoever dyno'd his car.

I know nothing about his car, so im not "dissing" it.

But yes i would certainly state that Ant (who may be a nice guy and im NOT having a go at, we cant all be clued up on such things) has a MASSIVE hole in his understanding of torque and BHP, just purely because if he knew the first thing about them or how they are worked out then he would just be able to glance at the figures he posted and see they were BS insantly like i did.

That doesnt make him a bad person, im sure he is lovely, and i dont want to fall out with anyone, but facts are facts and in this instance the facts are very clearly that he hasnt a clue.

Thats the good thing about forums like this though, people can learn from each other, and hopefully now Ant has read what me and you wrote he DOES now have a clue and has moved his knowledge on a little bit