m3 on 5th gear now!!!

[m-dtech]

lets book a track day and see what times we can get

[paulj]

foooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook
i missed it bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger
whens the replay?

[William]

foooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook
i missed it bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger bugger
whens the replay?

not sure, or www.finalgear.com

[astondg]

this is why top gear is better, the stig is a pro driver bet he would show you what an m3 can do

Are you serious? Tiff is also a proffesional driver (well he gets paid drives anyway) and has done things from Le Mans to a couple of drives in F1. I think he would be the equal of the Stig, or it would be a very close race anyway.

I think the difference here is that Tiff took it a bit easy on the M3 compared to how he drives the newer cars, the owner of the M3 said this himself. Also did the M3 have standard suspension (springs, dampers, ARB's, etc.)? If so then maybe the standard setup isn't that great compared to todays cars, I think most of you (and me with my 323i) upgrade to at least different springs and dampers which probably makes a noticable difference (compared to the original items that were ok in the 1980's but technology has moved on a bit) to lap times especially if the old dampers were worn out and even the springs could have been getting a little bit old.

I know my 323i like it is now can keep up with quite a few newer cars around a track, but then it isn't standard either.

Aston

[Fushion_Julz]

Dont forget the M3 is prob the cheapest car they have tested, and they used an early one, a later spec 215 or evo sport would have been a lot quicker.

I doubt it...It might have been a bit quicker...like a couple of tenths..and enough to beat the Integrale...

I doubt it was fixed, though...IIRC Aaron was saying somewhere that the other (new) cars got thrashed, in some cases to death, whereas the "classics", not being manufacturers cars, would have been treated that little bit better.

TBH, 56secs round Anglesey is a crap time, regardless...
I've done a faster time (53.2secs) in a Fiat Uno...admittidly a racer, but with a fairly standard (Fiat Challange spec) motor producing around 100bhp and weighing around 1000Kg.
The fastest Fiat guys were doing mid 51s laps, too...

So I suspect if I took my (similar spec) M3 there and, with it being my car, I think I could match, if not better, the Fiat times...

Oh..and E30 M3s are still a reasonable tool for the Kumho championship in Class B or C...beating many E36 M3s

[M5pilot]

I saw it! I was quite surprised at how the M3 was slower than the lancia seeing as how the Lancia was all over the place.

The M3 looked great going round the track and judging by the way tiff was changing up he wasnt driving the car to its full potential. At the end of the day Im sure he didnt want to give it back with a blown engine only for fifth gear to replace it.

Aaron's car looked fantastic aswell, well done for getting it on the TV dude!


As for the m5 vs F1 race - Butter Henderson was going sideways throughout the whole circuit - not sticking to the racing line at all, it was more about going sideways and pleasing the crowds than doing a proper test.

[astondg]

About Vicky in the M5, I think that is also how she drives. You can see by here lap times compared to Tiff's at Anglesey that she isn't as quick, compare the 997's times. I think she is a good driver but only reasonable for a race driver.

Aston

[Jimbob]

Tiff knows the importance of an E30 M3 rather than the shitty Colt and Ford Kak, end of.

[Rich_W]

Why hasnt someone riped and uploaded this yet?

final Gear is listing 2d 5h at the moment...

[redrobbie]

why? somebody tell me why? Come on guys has anyone thought of a better excuse. You know what who cares, nice m3 aaron probably would have done better if tiff knew he could thrash it without worrying about ruining a classic. Though true aaron, why did he say he thrashed it at the timing board when he told you this? ah well I've said it before and i'll say it again e30's rule!

[Lordschleife]

Why hasnt someone riped and uploaded this yet?

final Gear is listing 2d 5h at the moment...

http://www.lanciadelta.co.uk/5thgear.mp4

Thats just the m3/lancia bit, you'll need quicktime

[Patm3]

This is just my view, and even though I own a E30 M3, I donÔš't know a lot about cars and performance, what I think is the M3 done good for a 20 year old car. If they had put an equivalent ford on the test from that year, say a fiesta or even an escort 1.3, we would see the difference, and would still be waiting now for it to finish the lap, that is if there would be any of the car left to even drive. Because of the BHP difference they as presenters should know that a car with 200BHP from 20 years ago compared to a car today with the same BHP, will have and drive with a big difference, technology gets better, which means so will performance.

Put the same M3 on a straight run with the KA, and we would see how far the KA would get and the difference, but all these bends and turns, and needless sideway action they were doing, to me donÔš't prove a thing. A KA in first and second gear can move by the time it gets to third its boring and an E30 M3 will pass it, and if any thing you will see the KA vanishing in your rear view.

DonÔš't be disheartened zoners, its a crap test with nonsense results, they have to try at least three or four times to get a good time out of a vehicle going round the track and will never get the same time twice, it would either be slower or faster.

A KA and E30 M3 on a straight, the M3 would win all the time by more than a couple of seconds, no contest, E30 M3 for life.

[Fushion_Julz]

Actually, as an E30 M3 owner, myself, I'd bet my M3 against most cars on most circuits or twisty roads...

They aren't, any more, the most powerful cars around and they lack torque...So they need clean precise driving..Sliding one will get you slower lap times then a cleanly driven one...

In a straight line, though, the acceleration isn't so fanatstic, these days, and the lack of any traction control means a lot of moderns will be faster....But get to the corners and it's a different story...especially with a standard car.

The M3 has bags of grip and handles so well. I bet the average FWD Hot Hutch can't match it for balance and driveability!

[6potWil6pot]

If they had put an equivalent ford on the test from that year, say a fiesta or even an escort 1.3, we would see the difference, and would still be waiting now for it to finish the lap, that is if there would be any of the car left to even drive.

An equivalent Ford from the era of the E30 M3 would be non other than the Sierra Cosworth!

Saw the whole 5th Gear thing, think they were a bit mean on it when Plato and the other weirdo were talking about it! Too many factors to consider for the lap times on their scoreboard even if the driver is the same!

Aarons car did look good out there tho, miles better than that Lancia

[Patm3]

I MEAN EQUIVALENT TO THE KA NOT THE M3, I AM NOT REALLY A CORNER MAN MYSELF LIKE STRAIGHTS, WHERE YOU CAN PULL UP NEXT TO SAY A KA, TURN, GIVE HIM OR HER A LOOK, SMILE AND THEN DRIVE OFF WAVING GOOD BYE

[6potWil6pot]

An M3 vs an 80s small Ford would hardly be a contest worth comparing! But the Sport KA got close to the M3s time on 5th Gear, maybe 20 yrs of progress gets you somewhere, i dunno!

[Patm3]

THATS MY POINT, TIME HAS MOVED ON AND THINGS HAVE PROGRESSED, SO THEREFORE PUTTING A 20 YEAR OLD CAR INFRONT OF A 2005 FORD ka ON A TABLE IS A BIT OF A JOKE REGARDLESS OF THE POWER, LIKE SOMEONE SAID IF THAT KA WAS 20 YEARS OLD IT WOULD PROBABLY BE IN THE SCRAP YARD

[herman]

Tiff's not the best by far, Derek Bell ace Le Mans racer. To lower the tone, one of Vicky Butter ex sparco suits was at a auction, proved very popular with the older guys, 2 bags if I remember.

[6potWil6pot]

So your saying its ok to compare an old sports car with an old super mini. But its not ok to compare a modern warm hatch (Sport KA is a mildly tweaked KA) with a old sports car? I dunno anyway, the TV lies/makes up alot of things, so dont take 5th Gear as more than a laugh

Maybe progress in car technology will mean that in 20 yrs time they'll have a Ford Shopping Cart 2025 beating a E46 M3 around a track on Telly

[Patm3]

NO I AM TAKING IT WITH A LAUGH BUT AFTER SEEING SOME ZONERS THROUGH THE WEEK AND SPEAKING TO SOME ON MSN, AND THEN READING SOME OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT FIFTH GEAR, EVERYONE SEEMS DEPRESSED, AND MY POINT IS WHAT FOR, THERE IS NO NEED, YOU WILL GET MORE LOOKS IN AN E30 M3 THAN A KA, ON A STRAIGHT, YOU WILL P/SS ALL OVER IT, AND ITS GOT 20 YEARS ON ITS SIDE, SO NO NEED TO BE GUTTED BE HAPPY.

[Lordschleife]

I MEAN EQUIVALENT TO THE KA NOT THE M3, I AM NOT REALLY A CORNER MAN MYSELF LIKE STRAIGHTS, WHERE YOU CAN PULL UP NEXT TO SAY A KA, TURN, GIVE HIM OR HER A LOOK, SMILE AND THEN DRIVE OFF WAVING GOOD BYE

Anyone can put their foot down on the throttle and drive quick in a straight line, the corners are where its at, and where the m3 is good (along with feel/feedback, balance etc) it never was all that in a straight line.

And please STOP SHOUTING!

[Lordschleife]

Derek Bell ace Le Mans racer.

Derek Bell v.good, but you should see how much quicker than him the likes of Ickx and Bellof were in the gruppe c cars!
If you've ever seen the incar956 vid at the 'ring Ickx overtakes Bell and has vanished withing a few seconds. I think Bells time was 6m40 odd, Bellof (his teamate in the same car) 6m11 still the record today
Mind you Bellof was a nutter in the races and used to crash, Bell a lot more balanced and more likely to bring the car home!

[Patm3]

FAIR ENOUGH OPPS I AM SHOUTING AGAIN, sorry, fair enough but its the preference of the driver, i know the M3 is good in corners but they always test cars this way, why not try out its 0 to 60 and see how it compares to when it first came out 20 years ago, thats also a test and always stats that you get when you buy a car, i am pretty sure they dont test its 0 to 60 speed going round corners

[Simon]

I wonder what time a sportka would do the ring in...

[herman]

I agree steady but brings home the car, like Alan Prost, think he's won Le mans 7 times?

I met him on the ferry coming home from Le mans, 1997 he was second in a Mclaren F1, Harrods car. Rained all thru the night. He said harf the lap was sideways.

In the middle of the night, sideways at 100plus, in rain. Yep steady. Great bloke.

Should do e30 Le mans trip, great weekend.

[Lordschleife]

I wonder what time a sportka would do the ring in...

At a guess 10 mins?

[E30BeemerLad]

E30 is a good car and has its charms and particular characteristics that make it a drivers car, mainly due to the simple meat n' veg mechanicals without any nanny state traction control and assistance this n' that etc.

However, the game has moved on. It's like when I recall seeing the old favourite UR Quattro get a bashing from an Evo. I'm sure the Quattro is also a hero chariot of many zoners and is one to the cars from my childhood that you aspire to own, but the fact remains modern stuff wins in the lap time and dynamics areas no contest.

Face reality folks, a Clio 172 would walk all over an E30 M3 of any variety on a tight track and on most B roads too. Hell a Clio 172 can shame most exotica on sale today on a contry lane blast. A ford SportKa is a very well reviewed FWD warm hatch which is praised for its poise and handling and is more about the grin factor that outright speed.

the Lancia looked a bag of shite because of understeer and bodyroll but back in the day, it was still always a quicker point to point car.

We love our cars and most people on this forum won't have a bad word said about E30's but a prod with the reality stick is needed me thinks.

Bring on the flaming

[whiterhino]

e30 beemerland ihave to diagree on the 172 debate.my mate has one and i used to edge him in my sport and in my cecotto he has no chance.i do agree their handling is awesome but on normal roads its all about the driver and whos prepared to take risks.another one of my pals has a modded vr6 golf with a healthy 195bhp and he cant talk to my m3 its a shame though because we all watched 5th gear together and after that dismmal showing they are confident they can take me but i have to stress to them cecotto215bhp 5th gear m3 200bhp maybe the diffrence isnt that much and im not tiff thats for sure but one thing i can say is none of the other cars like the mitsubishi ford ka have the presence or respect that an m3 gains where ever it goes.

[Lordschleife]

Face reality folks, a Clio 172 would walk all over an E30 M3 of any variety on a tight track and on most B roads too. Hell a Clio 172 can shame most exotica on sale today on a contry lane blast. A ford SportKa is a very well reviewed FWD warm hatch which is praised for its poise and handling and is more about the grin factor that outright speed.

Did you see how well the clio trophy did in evo's car if the year this month?
Won the affordable cars bit, then they took it along on the supercars run, and it beat many of them, rated it 3rd out of them!

[E30BeemerLad]

my point entirely Robin

Having had my head buried in Performance Car and Evo magazine for the last 20 years, I honestly cannot, with the exception of the M3, recall the E30 ever having much of a following.

In it's hey day the E30 was overshadowed by the Sierra Cosworth

[Simon]

Lee, totally agree with the above comment, in the real world, differences aren't going to be much.

I've got an M3 because I'm an 80's fan, back when cars used to have features, and were special, if money was no object, I'd have a garage with E30 M3, Delta Integrale evo, RS500, ur quattro, lotus calrton..to name but a few, no new performance car being built today interests me, apart from the M powered BMW's, and with the above cars, I know which would get the most attention compared to a renault clio or a sportka.

I got to say, I've got that race between the Mitbushsilly evo and the sport quattro, and when taking into account the evo was fairly new, and the quattro was 20 years old, and is audi's very own press car, the difference in results was tiny, the quattro was even faster off the mark, and first into the first corner, now that race was good!

[Moofles]

We love our cars and most people on this forum won't have a bad word said about E30's but a prod with the reality stick is needed me thinks.

well put, a very valid point on many car forums in fact (don't worry zoners, you're not alone!)

[Rich_W]

The M3 has bags of grip and handles so well. I bet the average FWD Hot Hutch can't match it for balance and driveability!

Having overwhelmed my rear Bridgestones relatively easily, I'll disagree on the grip stage of things....

However, the game has moved on. It's like when I recall seeing the old favourite UR Quattro get a bashing from an Evo. I'm sure the Quattro is also a hero chariot of many zoners and is one to the cars from my childhood that you aspire to own, but the fact remains modern stuff wins in the lap time and dynamics areas no contest.

Face reality folks, a Clio 172 would walk all over an E30 M3 of any variety on a tight track and on most B roads too. Hell a Clio 172 can shame most exotica on sale today on a contry lane blast. A ford SportKa is a very well reviewed FWD warm hatch which is praised for its poise and handling and is more about the grin factor that outright speed.

UR Quattro was a terrible car, engine so far foward it understeered like an oil rig. It was a triumph of power over sophistication. I completely agree on the 172, those cars are properly grown up car quick, they weigh what, 900Kg, thats far better power/ton than a M3.

To be honest, the 5th Gear feature doesn't bother me. Id wanted an M3 for over 2 years, before I actually bought mine. And know I've owned one, I wouldn't buy another one. It was an itch I wanted to satisfy.

[redrobbie]

Zoners with m3's, in all the time of your ownership have you ever felt your cars weren't has powerful as the more modern cars. And yes I know the m3 more about other things than performance, it's about history FULL STOP. I'm just curious.

[maxfield]

My dad never wanted more power until he got his audi.