Nosiy Starter. Wrong Starter?

[andy57]

Tried to start my M52 today.

At first the starter was just making a high pitched whirring, as if the the solenoid wasn't working and the starter motor was just spinning. Smoke was starting to appear too!

So I took the starter motor off and bench tested it, works fine.

Re-fitted the starter and tried again with the plugs out, it now turns the engine, but it sounds like a bucket of bolts in a cement mixer!

The starter is a new recon E30 325i one, fitted because I've got a Danthe E30 flywheel.

Could I have been sold a E36 starter instead? Is this what happens when you fit a E36 starter instead of a E30 one?

The battery is a bit low and the engine is only turning very slowly, but that shouldn't make the engine sound like a bucket of bolts? I'm pretty sure the engine is good, doesn’t make a noise if I push it in gear with the plugs out.

Any advice please?

[DanThe]

Possibly wrong starter, have you got both dowels in between the gearbox and engine?
As for the smoke, could be a bad earth, what was smoking, the loom?

[andy57]

Yes, both dowels are in, not sure what was smoking, cut the power pretty quickly!

It didn't smoke when the engine was turning, just when the starter seemed to be jammed!

I've had a look at the part numbers, but I'm not sure how reliable different sources are, you can get 5 different numbers for the same car from 5 different suppliers!

Perhaps the answer is to try a 2nd hand one from a known car....?

[andy57]

Just to check that I'm not being a muppet, it is a late M20 starter I need, the type known as a "small case"?

[eko]

Just to check that I'm not being a muppet, it is a late M20 starter I need, the type known as a "small case"?

Yes late `small case` M20 one is correct.
Also from memory I think the E36 starter is threaded so only uses bolts to secure,M20 isnt so uses nuts too.Could be a way of narrowing down which you have?

[andy57]

It's a Lucas recon starter and the number on the label checks as a late E30 325i starter.

How big is a small case?

[andy57]

How likely is a weak battery the cause?

I can push the car in gear, (plugs out) and the engine is silent. Try the starter (plugs out) and it's noisy, but turns over even slower then I can push it along!

[327ire]

When I did my m52 build (with an e36 box) I had a nightmare of a time with the starter. In the end I found the correct starter, had it rebuilt and it still made a huge squealing noise when it cranked. I just left it in and after a couple of weeks of use the noise eventually went away. I guess it managed to ware in snug. I found lots of conflicting info out there.

[andy57]

When I did my m52 build (with an e36 box) I had a nightmare of a time with the starter. In the end I found the correct starter, had it rebuilt and it still made a huge squealing noise when it cranked. I just left it in and after a couple of weeks of use the noise eventually went away. I guess it managed to ware in snug. I found lots of conflicting info out there.

No problems since? Unfortunately, mines much worse then squealing, it's as loud as a road drill!

I understand that's it just teeth pitch of the pinion that's different, don't know of a way to check this.

I've sourced a used starter motor, so I'll find out if it's the starter or the ring gear...

Andy

[327ire]

I made that video to get some feedback. The starter is 100% perfect now.

[andy57]

I've now put videos of the starter being used on Youtube, ignore the diesel in the background, it's jump starting the M52 engine.

The video seems much quieter than when listened to ”alive”a.

The M52 engine is being turned over without plugs.

I did get a good used E30 325 starter and tried it. It worked fine on the bench, but in the engine it (the starter) seemed to spin up, but not engage with the flywheel.

The ring gear seems to have a small amount of damage, but that's only in one spot. When I pulled the car out of the garage today, it seemed as if the starter was jammed in, a quick ”arock”a in gear freed it.



Don't really want to try another starter or change the ring gear without a good reason, so any ideas?

I'm going to contact the supplier of the starter and see if they'll change it, but I'd have thought that if the starter was bad, it wouldn't spin up so easily on the bench?

Youtube links, 1st video, is plugs out, 2nd plugs in, battery very low!






Thanks

[blue30]

I made that video to get some feedback. The starter is 100% perfect now.

Mine did that exact noise when I put an e30 starter on that that had been sitting in the garage for a while, bit worse actually but still it gradually went normal after a week or so too.

OP, if it's turning the engine over and it disengages OK I'd just run with it for a bit and see what happens.

[andy57]

Mine did that exact noise when I put an e30 starter on that that had been sitting in the garage for a while, bit worse actually but still it gradually went normal after a week or so too.

OP, if it's turning the engine over and it disengages OK I'd just run with it for a bit and see what happens.[/quote]

Yeah, I think I'll just leave it on, if something breaks, at least I'll have some idea of what's wrong !

Was your starter a pre-loved one? My starter is meant to be reconditioned, which is a bit worrying!

Andy

[rich318i]

if i remember right the e36 starter has 12 teeth and e30 M20 has 9 teeth. M20 teeth look more rounded and fatter and e36 teeth are more sharp looking

[andy57]

I didn't think to count the teeth on the E36 starter before I got rid of it!

The starter on the car has 9 teeth...so maybe just needs bedding in......I'm hoping!

[ross_jsy]

I had a problem when I first fitted my starter where the solenoid would clunk but it wouldn't turn. Tried everything. Turned out the starter was out of alignment. Loosened the bolts and jiggled it around and it worked perfectly. Maybe worth trying?

[andy57]

Thanks for the suggestion.

Starter has been on and off a few times now, tried tightening the top bolt first, the bottom bolt first, alternative turns on each bolt and giving it a good jiggle.

It seems to be getting quieter, (but not by much!) each time I run it......

[327ire]

My m52 build was full of this kind of headache. I bet it will bed-in eventually. I had issues with the clutch slave in the gearbox to so i had the pleasure of taking engine and box in and out millions of times.

But, when i got it on the road the first time I gave it full throttle I smiled ear to ear so it was all worth it!

[randomspeedfreak]

I had a problem when I first fitted my starter where the solenoid would clunk but it wouldn't turn. Tried everything. Turned out the starter was out of alignment. Loosened the bolts and jiggled it around and it worked perfectly. Maybe worth trying?

This happened to me also

[andy57]

But, when i got it on the road the first time I gave it full throttle I smiled ear to ear so it was all worth it!

Have now got a problem with early and late crank sensor mismatch!

But thanks, you're keeping me going!

[age]

you must have the matching flywheel and starter,
i.e if the flywheel is an early m20 one, the you need an early starter.
the later ones will need the later starter.

hth

[andy57]

I did think that you could only fit the late M20 starter to a M52? And how to tell early from late M20 flywheels?

Thanks
Andy

[andy57]

you must have the matching flywheel and starter,
i.e if the flywheel is an early m20 one, the you need an early starter.
the later ones will need the later starter.

hth

RealOEM lists one part number for both early and late flywheel ring gear, which would suggest that the pinions for both early and late starters are the same?

Unless you had to fit a late starter if you fitted a new ring gear? Gives BMW a double bite at your wallet!

Andy

[327ire]

I found all sorts of misleading info on these starters. In the end I went out to an e30 parts guy and we matched one random starter to my flywheel. Using the numbers, matching stuff using late/early model info didnt work either, just a case of finding a matching pair physically.

The trouble is getting access to the starter area when the engine is in. I disconnect the prop and loosened the engine mount bolts as much as possible without taking the nut off. I lifted the engine forwards a few inches, just enough space to practice removing the skin on my knuckles

[andy57]

[quote="327ire" In the end I went out to an e30 parts guy and we matched one random starter to my flywheel.[/quote]

How did you know it was a good match? Did you spin the engine with each starter on, or is there another way?

[327ire]

I knew what kind of flywheel I had so we got another similar flywheel that he had on a shelf and just matched it to one of his starters by sitting it on the teeth. When it was installed (and refurbished) it still made the crazy noise (in the vid) but it went away after a week.

I guess your having 2 problems, matching the fly-starter and getting it lined up properly in installation. I think I didnt have the lower bolts in the gearbox bolted to the block so that might have added to my alinement issues. The metal gasket between the box and block could cause issues with alinement to. If I were you I'd somehow find a match, get it installed and if it turns the engine then leave it in regardless of noise. It should seat itself eventually. Mine didnt always even turn it in the beginning.

My lesson from this is to ALWAYS install and check that the starter will turn the engine over BEFORE the lot gets into the car. Theres nothing worse than working in tight engine bays.