Key differences between 325i sport and c2 alpina..

[beautymeanswheels]

My mate really wants to buy a c2, guy absolutely adores the things. It appears that some people would convert their 325s with alpina bits and then sell them on as the real thing. Just as people who convert 325se to sports and sell them on.

What are the key differences? I know later c2 have 2.7 engines. What should one look for? I know there would be a plack in the car but surely this could also be replicated.
Regarding the Alpina register, would all the cars on there be genuin Alpinas?

What extras (if any) did the Alpina have over the normal sport. I have seen a couple which look like normal sports from bumpers etc but owners have assured me they are gen alpina and are on the register. Is it true that everything was an extra- Alpina decals/Alpina side skirts bumpers etc...

What would a good one be worth. I.e no rust/very minimal rust, engine in excellent condition, interior good etc.. What range of price are we looking at..

Please keep the thread informative and unrelated arguments out. Thank you v much!

[polsta]

only way to really tell is to get the full vin and check with bmw/synter and check all components are there and match with the build spec sheet,and that the cars history all matches up, a well looked after one should have the history with it

i think, alpina/sport bumpers were the same, its the valances that are different, along with alpina wheels,rear spoiler, gear knob,steering wheel, unique plaque, and the engines

as alpinas were cars that loved to be driven,most probably have high milage ,think the main concern would be to spot one thats been re shelled,an owner on here had one that was re shelled in the 90s somewhen,and needed (is having) a full restoration again now

[bss325i]

The original service book is a big clue as it should have Alpina C2 2.7 written in it at the front as well as the Alpina engine number which should match that stamped on the block.

Sytner will confirm weather or not it is genuine but you may have to pay for the privilege.

As for sports bumper/kits etc, you could order your Alpina C2 2.7 or C2.5 on any 325i including 325i Sports so there are a few 325i Sport based Alpina's out there.

Some had the full M techinc body kit which the Sport came with and some had the Sport kit but with the Alpina front and rear spoilers.

Although there was a complete package of spoilers, wheels, suspension, engine, steering wheel and knob, you could actually pretty much choose what you wanted back when these were being built by Sytners.

A few weeks ago I actually met Mark Adkin, the guy whole solely built all the Sytner built Alpina's from 1985-1989.

He revealed that Benny from ABBA had an E28 B10 3.5 built which only had the engine and no other Alpina parts used on the E28 M535i base car.

[polsta]

does that adkin fella own an e30 these days ? what else did he have to say

[bss325i]

No he doesn't own an E30. He had just bought a sporty Version of the Audi A1.

He did a talk at an Alpina register meet at Sytner Nottingham so was a general talk about the old days at Sytner and about building the cars.

[beautymeanswheels]

Well there are very few people I've come across who are willing to part with their Alpina. Bumped into one guy a few years back who was a lecturer. His looked like a tech 2 - main difference was Alpina wheels, alpina steering and gearknob, Alpina clocks etc. He said the stamped numbers on engine matched the plaque. iirc the car had alpina clocks also, interior was same as the sport though?
Guy didn't have any history and said he bought the car like that. If an example is on the Alpina register, should one assume that it is genuine? Surely the register has a set of requirements which need to be met before one can be put on there?

What would a good one cost today?

[polsta]

6-10k range seen asked of them in the last year, not often come up for sale, look at the pics on the alpina register of interiors and how each car can differ, what parts of the interior do you presume would be different ? listen to what people like bss say , who know their stuff.. you bought an e30 then paid for the alpina conversion on top/after, and could have any 325i or sport done,with various options, so each alpina can be different and many variations

as said, the way to tell if genuine is the history, all matching numbers and getting it confirmed by synter, if you found one that was on the register-youd check it all out the same anyway, remember thats only a website where people send in some info and pics-what do you think they do check it all out with bmw before putting it on there?

[polsta]

No he doesn't own an E30. He had just bought a sporty Version of the Audi A1.

He did a talk at an Alpina register meet at Sytner Nottingham so was a general talk about the old days at Sytner and about building the cars.

an audi

bet it was interesting, what was the meet like ? bet there were sexual cars there

[bss325i]

No he doesn't own an E30. He had just bought a sporty Version of the Audi A1.

He did a talk at an Alpina register meet at Sytner Nottingham so was a general talk about the old days at Sytner and about building the cars.

an audi

bet it was interesting, what was the meet like ? bet there were sexual cars there

Lots of photos here.

http://thealpinaregister.com/forums/vie ... 13&start=0

[hennared323i]

Bss325i,

Thank you for posting again

Simon13 I need updates


To the OP - the above 2 and their respective threads are required reading

[polsta]

awsome !!

new alpinas, just dont have a patch on the old ones ,the old styling with the alpina decals is just unbeatable

[beautymeanswheels]

Thats more than what a motorsport costs? The ones I've seen have all been different. Some have had the Alpina splitter at the front, other have just looked like normal sports.

Strange. Now I wish I hadn't sold my e30 so soon.

[bss325i]

Have a look through this thread to show how varied they can be.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... a+goodness

[beautymeanswheels]

They are amazing. So the biggest difference then is the engine. I bet its quite a lot faster than a standard 325i?

[polsta]

Thats more than what a motorsport costs? The ones I've seen have all been different. Some have had the Alpina splitter at the front, other have just looked like normal sports.

Strange. Now I wish I hadn't sold my e30 so soon.

how much are you expecting then ? when a decent sport commands 5-6k , its not often you even see an alpina for sale, let alone a nice one with no/minimal rust, perfect engine and interior etc like you said, last couple ive seen in the past year were in the 7-9 grand bracket, aound 8.5k i think the last one for sale was, about 3 months ago it was posted on here, or you could buy a dog for 3 or 4 grand

[beautymeanswheels]

Wonder if Sytner would still convert normal Sports lol

[beautymeanswheels]

Haha tbh I think the price you are saying is pretty fair. A good sport is costing around 4/5k minimum.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E30-GENUI ... 3102wt_954

This is loooovly!

[bss325i]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E30-GENUI ... 3102wt_954

This is loooovly!

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=227599

[polsta]

Haha tbh I think the price you are saying is pretty fair. A good sport is costing around 4/5k minimum.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E30-GENUI ... 3102wt_954

This is loooovly!

only going by the prices ive seen in the last year, i dont know much about them just listen to the likes of bss, but they are that rarley for sale that each one commands its own price based on all the factors, but 6-9 k would be the range for nice ones

interesting that hartge conversion was done in 2000, 10 years after it was new , hartge styling is the tits aswell

[beautymeanswheels]

I recun BBS wheels look the best. Nice they may be but not a huge fan of the Hartge wheels. My mate wants a good alpina with around 100k on clocks but they are super rare. Most have high miles and the one listed at the top of this thread is going to cost a fair wack. Apparently seller wants £9-10k for it!
I still hope that one day I'm going to stumble across an original e30, kept by same owner from new who just wants to get rid as he's too old to bother now lol

[e30topless]

My mate wants a good alpina with around 100k on clocks but they are super rare. Most have high miles and the one listed at the top of this thread is going to cost a fair wack.

how deep are your friends pockets?

a guy I know has a nicely morselled up SE based 1991 Alpina C2 2.7 for sale in Diamond Schwartz,
it has just under 50k on the clock with Full Sytner History he has owned it since 1993 and is the second owner, it's recently been re-commissioned after about 8 years in dry storage all the Paint/panels are still factory, the turd is simply stunning,

another friend has a Lachs silver 4 door 1989 C2 2.7 again a very very nice original car that has 65k with FBMW S/H and alpina cloth trim

pm if interested

[Speedtouch]

One way to check you're getting the real deal is to check the ECU; if it's a genuine Alpina, it will have an Alpina sticker on it. You can also check the serial number on the ECU matches the car's chassis number.

[B7]

One thing no ones mentioned is that a genuine Alpina block will have C2/1 or similar added to the engine number. And a 4 digit number which should (we think) match the bespoke number Alpina stamped on their heads.

[bss325i]

One thing no ones mentioned is that a genuine Alpina block will have C2/1 or similar added to the engine number. And a 4 digit number which should (we think) match the bespoke number Alpina stamped on their heads.

The original service book is a big clue as it should have Alpina C2 2.7 written in it at the front as well as the Alpina engine number which should match that stamped on the block.

[Andyboy]

He revealed that Benny from ABBA had an E28 B10 3.5 built which only had the engine and no other Alpina parts used on the E28 M535i base car.

260 bhp and TRX's!

[beautymeanswheels]

So major difference was only the engine? Whats do unlike in the 2.7 from the 2.5?
So all UK alpinas were regular e30s/sports converted. Were the engines totally swapped or just had the manifold etc changed and ecu change?

[Speedtouch]

Most Alpinas had the longer stroke 2.7 bottom end, some cylinder head work, six-branch exhaust manifold, bored out throttle body, different camshaft, and remapped ECU chip.

You could at one time buy a package to convert a Tech 2 325i Sport into a C2 2.5.

[B7]

C2.5 had an ECU, cam, exhaust to produce 192 brake (IIRC). Could also be bought as an Alpina sport pack on a standard car.

C2 2.7 had long stroke TD crank, 2.5 rods with bespoke Mahle pistons to allow maximum stroke while reducing the angle of the rod on the up stroke.
Heads were tickled (quite heavily) with a fair bit of meat taken out of the combustion chambers and the inlets cleaned up. Exhaust ports were improved as well. Add a Cam, ECU and an exhaust and they made 210 brake (again IIRC) all day long.

the C2 2.7 is a glorious engine.

[polsta]

what sort of money would it cost now days to do something like that ? not alpina, but to get soemone to do it

[Rav335uk]

You need very deep pockets Karl

[beautymeanswheels]

I'm sure I have seen quite a few e30s over the past year or so which have had a 2.7 engine conversion done so it wouldn't cost huge bucks?

Spoke to some guy about an e30 sport which he just sold and we missed, he was saying hes got an actual Alpina e30 made in Germany and a RHD and said if he sold it hed want £30k!?!
Were there any actual Alpinas made by Alpina themselvs and not just converted by our friends at Sytner?

[sweep]

17 inch wheels?

[brettski]

Les Stannard may still do a 2.7 conversion for you but he told me it would cost about £5000.

[bss325i]

I'm sure I have seen quite a few e30s over the past year or so which have had a 2.7 engine conversion done so it wouldn't cost huge bucks?

Nearly every 2.7 M20 out there will be based around an Eta block or the crank and 130mm rods in another M20 block with either of these combos being inferior the the Alpina 2.7 and cheaper to build.

Spoke to some guy about an e30 sport which he just sold and we missed, he was saying hes got an actual Alpina e30 made in Germany and a RHD and said if he sold it hed want £30k!?!
Were there any actual Alpinas made by Alpina themselvs and not just converted by our friends at Sytner?

The only RHD Alpina E30 made in Buchloe was a saturn blue B6 2.8 which was built for evaluation purposes but there were never any others made in RHD as the easier to build C2 2.7 was just around the corner.

All other RHD Alpina E30's were built by Sytner.

[bss325i]

You could at one time buy a package to convert a Tech 2 325i Sport into a C2 2.5.

You could have any 325i as the base car for a C2 2.5 or C2 2.7.