My 320ise S62.

[Jonsku]

You can always take the hammer and make some space for that as well ;)

[davethegoat]

Cheers Glenn, it's always good to have a bit of reassurance that things are about right!

Thanks Jonsku, there a a hell of a lot of problems that can be solved with a hammer...

I've been picking away at some exhaust calculations over the last day or two, and went to see a guy pretty local to me with the intention of ordering some mild steel bends, flanges and wot not to knock some exhaust manifolds up.
I was thinking of modding the E39 manifolds, or (as suggested by Turk) using modified X5 manifolds. (Left hand drive ones Turk?)
Yesterday I had a quick go at fitting the E39 drivers side manifold to see how it'd work out. One part bolts straight up, and even looks like it might clear the steering column. The other part would need a fair bit of chopping about, and probably require the first pipe to be modded to fit.
So, as well as looking like poop, they'd be a PITA to fit... I didn't bother looking at the left side.
I'm aware that they work, and are a easy solution, but the X5 manifolds also have all the grace of a misfiring tractor with buckled wheels towing a trailer full of steaming manure IMHO.

Anyway, I digress. As I said, the manifolds were going to be made in mild steel, then plasma coated for protection against corrosion and to keep under bonnet temps down a bit.
It turns out though, that the cheaper options of plasma coat don't last, and the proper stuff is hideously expensive. Like way over £500 for a pair of (long) manifolds expensive.

So, the upshot of all this is that I'm pretty sure my manifolds will be stainless. Seeing as I've only had around 10 minutes practice at TIG welding, my car will be taken down to the guy's workshop in (hopefully) the next couple of weeks for a set of equal length lovelyness. Luckily, as well as being pretty bloody handy at making exhausts, he's a decent fella, and agreed to let me give him a hand to keep costs down a little. (I make a decent cuppa if all else fails )

I'm a bit gutted not to be making them myself, but if you can't do the job properly yourself, then find someone who can... (even though it'll cost a ton of money )

I best see if I can get it back on it's wheels in a bit...

Cheers. Dave.

[davethegoat]

I've not done a ton of stuff of late, but next time the engine, it might actually stay there. Consiquently, I've been doing a few bits and pieces in the engine bay.
I boxed the section of the bulkhead ages ago with the intention of running the heater pipes out of the matrix, along the inside of the bulkhead to the left, then out into the engine bay to give a decent amount of length to the pipes. Since then, I've got the engine fitted a little further rearward, which resulted in the left hand inlet cam position sensor being very close to the box I'd made.
To cut a(n already!) long story short, due to routing hoses etc, I cut the box out and went kind of back to the future. :


I threw some paint on it as the man on the telly said rain was coming. He lied.

The pipe exits are set back a little more than they were, but over all, not a massive gain for the work I've put in to it! Well, it'd all be a bit boring if were straightforward eh!

To get a bit of length back in the heater pipes, I cut the standard quick release hose attachments from the engine side (which were angled too far towards the bulkhead anyway). I'll weld a couple of beads on the end of the pipes and get a pic tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the pipes won't give any trouble, but if they do, I've now got a decent plan B.

I also gave the gearbox a proper clean (bloody hose pipe ban meant I couldn't use my jet wash ) and gave it a coat of paint. :


I had a chat with the guy who's going to be sorting out my exhaust today. I'm pretty happy to let him loose on my car. Here's one he made earlier (though obviously not for an E30):


He's been a bit ill lately, but hopefully in a couple of weeks it'll be at his workshop.

Cheers! Dave.

[turk]

i need that guys details

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

The Exhaust Guy is not based
just outside Salisbury / Wilts
by any chance ?

ITG are always flow proven and
they always under calculate meaning
your always on the correct side
regarding volume / GPM.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[davethegoat]

That manifold is just naked sex!!!

It's nice Will eh!
I can't wait to get my car down there now!
Here's one which he did for an RX7:


The guy is down near Purley, Surrey Germangorilla, which is way closer than Salisbury to me. Your Wiltshire guy is obviously good too.

I'll P.M you his number Turk.

[davethegoat]

I've been doing a spot more welding.


The extension piece(s) where the tunnel meets the floor are where (when they are finished) the 4-1 exhaust collectors will live. (The primary pipes will be somewhere close to a metre long.) Hopefully the rain will stay away for a bit so I can get the welding finished, seam sealer, and underseal it.

I've been thinking of how to get fuel from the tank to the engine. I was going to leave the stock in tank pump as a lift pump, with a bosch 044 and swirl pot set up with the stock M5 FPR (which I have). I'm now thinking however, that replacing the stock pump with a Walbro 255 LPH high pressure pump might be adequate. The M5 pump is rated at 5 bar, the HP Walbro is rated at 80psi, so 5.5 bar (ish).
I might do the odd track day, so a swirl pot would avoid fuel starvation, but it seems that keeping the tank reasonably topped up avoids any starvation anyway.

I'd appreciate your views! What do you reckon guys?

Cheers! Dave.

[turk]

I used a Walbro 044 with inline fuel pressure gauge sobi could check it if needed. Didnt have swirl pot but always pulled fine no matter how I drove.

That welding looks identical to what I will have to do on the other side for the drive shaft.

Lookibg good!

[glenn]

welding looks good dave

i replaced the e30 in-tank pump, for the e39 m5 pump, on mine. i never had any starvation problems. i used the stock m5 fpr, and mounted it up in the engine bay.
did you get the fuel pump control relay dave?

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Personally I would go Bosch 044,
as they will hold 6.0 Bar.

6.0 Bar is 90 + psi so its good to
run Fuel Pressure a little higher
than required, as it lowers the
Duty cycle on the Fuel Injectors.

Personally I would run a Dead Head
fuel system with an adjustable FPR,
and for a V8 I would have absolute
min of 8.5mm id fuel pipe, making sure
that any restrictions in line were at least
6.0mm dia opening size. [pipe fittings etc]

BMW E46 M3 runs a Dead Head system
at 5.0 Bar.

Why have two fuel lines all the way to
the engine and back to the tank when
you only require one.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[glenn]

its a dead head system that i've put on the v10 project dan.
because thats how it is on the e60 m5.
i've managed to get the twin pumps, the fuel filter and the 6 bar regulator, all inside the e30 tank. so there is just one fuel pipe to run.

i'm sure i read somewhere that the reason behind it was.....

fuel gets sent up to the engine bay, while its in the engine bay it gets warmed up, then sent back to the tank, and that cycle continues. so the fuel in the tank gets warmed up.
warm fuel is less dense, and so less fuel gets injected into the engine, less fuel equals less power.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi Glenn,

Sounds like your Fuel system is
all sorted.
Its so overlooked by so many.

I have even seen cars with ''Fuel Coolers''
fitted, when dead head system would
cure the problem.

You want that Super Unleaded as cold
as it can be.

Have you much further to go with
your V10 build ?

Been looking at options to reduce the
Camber and Toe Gains, E30, when using the
Semi Trailing rear arms, and although the
12 deg DTM Grp A arms are a little better
than the 15 deg std ones, its still not
enough for what I want to do.

So have an idea, just got to try and make
it work, the hard part.

Bit off this Thread, but all relevent !!!

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[davethegoat]

Righto, seeing as the weather has scuppered my plans for today, I've done a bit of reserch into pumps and wot not.
I might go for an (hard wired) Aeromotive 340 stealth pump. They're an in tank pump (so more convienient than an 044 Bosch), and are quiet. They also compare well to an 044 in terms of performance.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/automotosp ... -test.html

It would be nice to find one at a good price mind!

That and an adjustable FPR should do the trick.
I'm pretty sure I'll not bother with a swirl pot for the minute. If I run into any problems, I'll fit one, but for the sake of making sure the car's got a bit more fuel in it *if* I take it on track, it's a bit overkill.
I've got a standard E30 fuel filter lying around. How are these regarding restriction?

Thanks again GermanGorilla!

As far as the rear arms being off topic, they're not at all! I've been thinking about them myself. I've seen the pivot brackets modified with a higher centre line. I was wondering about modding the brackets further for a decent base-line to correct camber and toe, with the adjusters to set the final adjustments.

Cheers for the input guys!! D.

[yamoda]

Righto, seeing as the weather has scuppered my plans for today, I've done a bit of reserch into pumps and wot not.
I might go for an (hard wired) Aeromotive 340 stealth pump. They're an in tank pump (so more convienient than an 044 Bosch), and are quiet. They also compare well to an 044 in terms of performance.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/automotosp ... -test.html

Why not run the 044 in-tank? I did that on my E36/LS3 hybrid and it works, holds the pressure rock solid at 60psi.

[davethegoat]

[/quote]Why not run the 044 in-tank? I did that on my E36/LS3 hybrid and it works, holds the pressure rock solid at 60psi.[/quote]

For some reason I missed that as an option Yamoda! Even stranger seeing as I had an 044, in tank on a previous car... Cheers.

I've done a bit more reading up on dead-head fuel systems. There's some interesting reading here: http://www.centuryperformance.com/mallo ... pg-81.html

I think for now, I'll run an upgraded, in tank fuel pump with the stock FPR. I may well look again at a dead-head system in the future, but I'd prefer to keep things simple/avoid any potential issues for the time being.

I planned to get the welding I was doing finished over the weekend, but today went: Weld a bit, hastily pack away because it's started raining, get stuff out again because it's stopped raining, pack away because... etc. Luckily, I ran out of welding gas and had evidently used the spare bottle that I thought I still had, so that put an end to it! I started to prep the engine bay for a splosh of paint, but 5 minutes in it started raining again, so I popped the bonnet on, went in the garage and finished my airboxes.
Of course, the sun then came out for the rest of the afternoon.

Anyway, where I'd shortened the elbows, the ends of the adapters protruded into the bend:


So, I removed some material, and got rid of the square edges on the adapters and airbox tubes. Here's a before and after kind of thing:


I've got some filters turning up this week hopefully. I've ended up going with K&N's which I got a very good deal on.

No Glenn, I didn't get the fuel pump relay. Apparently the E30 relays go mental eh!

Cheers. Dave.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

What a load of typical sales talk rubbish.

Edit - http://www.centuryperformance.com/mallo ... pg-81.html

1/You fit the FPR on the tank return not
the feed to the fuel rail, on a dead head system.
ie] the pump holds the pressure via
the FPR, just as a return system.

2/ Pump is holding pressure required against the
FPR just as on a return system.

3/ What ? and re-circulating fuel from a hot engine
bay back to the tank does not heat it up !!!

4/ A pump pushing fuel upto 5 bar pressure gets
no hotter nor wears out quicker, if the balancing
factor is the FPR.
Once 5 Bar, 72.5 psi it reached then the FPR
bleeds off, it does not and can not bleed off
softer just because of a longer return.

5/ And so in conclusion, Ferrari, Porsche, Merc, BMW, Audi
are all utilising the wrong fuel system on all
their high performance cars.

Hail the mighty Century Performance.

Its nonsense like this made accessible via
the Internet and Sales orientated Websites that
causes more problems than it ever solves.

''
The secret to good and successful fluid Transfer
is to keep all pipe runs as short and straight as
possible.''

Century Perfomance observe !!

Primate Rant over-

Seperate note-

The Rock solid pressure for the E36/LS3 Hybrid falls
about 15 psi short for an S62 engine.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[glenn]

I think for now, I'll run an upgraded, in tank fuel pump with the stock FPR. I may well look again at a dead-head system in the future, but I'd prefer to keep things simple/avoid any potential issues for the time being.


No Glenn, I didn't get the fuel pump relay. Apparently the E30 relays go mental eh!

the e39 m5 and the e46 m3 use the 'dead-head' system.
they're return is at the regulator, which is on the end of the filter, which is roughly under the passenger seat, for both cars.
if your using the stock frp, why not keep it on the end of the stock filter, and mount it near the tank, dave?
although, you should have a small plastic pipe (approx 3mm i.d.) exiting at the back of the engine within the 'vee', that connects to the fpr. it is a small vacuum pipe which opens the fpr upon demand/vacuum.

i think you'll need the e39 m5 fuel pump relay dave.......
its something to do with the way the dme talks to the fuel pump
i think its something to do with the way the dme grounds out the pump?


i agree with dan, on the 'century performance' sales bullshit

[davethegoat]

Thanks guys,
I think I misunderstood what a dead-head system is. I *thought* the pump fed a FPR, then the pressure regulated fuel was fed into the injector rail(s) with no return anywhere along the fuel line.
Cheers Glen, that's what I'll do. Uprated in tank pump, stock FRP and filter controlled by an M5 relay.

I'd assumed that the second metal pipe which runs next to the fuel rail feed pipe under the rear of the plenum was a fuel return. Pictured here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E39-M5-Fu ... 35b9a1dbf5

Obviously, with a single feed pipe and the return fed from the FPR, that's not the case I can't find any info on it, and my engine's safely tucked away out of all this sodding rain away from (my) prying eyes.
Soooo, (potentially dumb question) what's that do then?!

Cheers!

BTW, good informative rant GermanGorilla!

[glenn]

I made that mistake on my first s62 conversion, dave.
The other pipe next to the fuel supply pipe is the one that usually connects to the fuel vapour canister. It takes vapour into the idle control valve. You'll just need to blank that pipe off dave.
On my first swap, i assumed that was the return, but after ten minutes of engine running it was sucking fuel back up from the tank! Making it run like a pig, overfuelling.

[turk]

You shouldnt need any special relays for the fuel. The dme send a low voltage signal to a standard relay, clicks it on and off you go.

[davethegoat]

Perfect. Cheers Glenn. I'll have to find a nice long bit of vacuum pipe.

We'll have a go at using the E30 relay then Adem. Not too far away from wiring now!

I've got a few bits and pieces done over the last few days. I'll take a few pics once I've stopped rain dodging!

[davethegoat]

Today, I removed this:


I cut the pipe which it was attached to on the engine end and plugged it. Did you remove the valve which the pipe feeds Glenn? Having a load of stuff on engines which does nothing makes me mental, but I don't want to remove anything that's going to stop it running! I was going to wait 'till it was wired up and check whether it has a live feed, but it'd be nice to get as much done as possible before I fit the engine again. The same with the EGR valve too Glenn?

I robbed some of the hose protection from the lower half of the steering reservoir pipe, and popped it on the heater pipes which will exit the bulkhead. I don't want them leaking. (The shorter pipe will have a connector and another length of pipe on the end of it)


Also, I finished the heater hose feeds from the engine. I like the quick release hose connectors, but they're pretty bulky, and where I want my engine sitting, one of the pipes rests on the bulkhead. Also, a bit more length in the heater pipes will be nice. So, I cut the ends off the pipes and welded a bead on the end:


Then gave it a paint. I left the heat gun pointing towards it to dry/harden the paint, but it got a bit hot and burnt the paint. I best have another go at that tomorrow then!



My filters turned up. I couldn't get the filters that would have been an easy fit, so I got slightly larger ones and cut the airboxes to make them fit.
Front view:


Bottom:


Haha, I said bottom!
I'll bond a rubber grommet to the airboxes under the filters to be 100% that the won't move/rub.

I painted the engine bay too. I'll take a pic rain permitting!

Cheers. Dave.

[glenn]

i didn't remove the valve dave, just blanked the pipe off.
egr's removed, and blanking plates fitted in their place.

[davethegoat]

Thanks Glenn.

I finally got round to taking an engine bay picture today. :


The gearbox tunnel is finished externally. Seam sealed, primered and a ton of stone chip.
You might have noticed that I've got a pair of master cylinder reservoirs mounted. I'm about half way towards finishing the brake pipes too.

There were a couple of small bits of surface rust on the gearbox tunnel inside the car, so I got a load of rust treatment on it, then some seam sealant. I was going to mask it to make it nice and tidy, but I'm going to have some kind of carpet over it (and I'd ran out of masking tape), so (for once) I decided to give myself an easier time of it.


Cheers!

[davethegoat]

Cheers Will!

I've had some sort of aidsy cold for a bit, but have got on with a few odds and sods, which in some way or another, mainly seems to have involved cleaning stuff.
The interior of the gearbox tunnel has paint on it. The pedal box bracket is a little shorter than it used to be.


I finished the brake pipes, fitted the engine and 'box, (for hopefully the last time ) and modified/painted my previously tractor like gearbox mount:


I used the E39 clutch slave, and tweeked the E30 clutch pipe to fit:


Fitted a clutch fluid reservoir, and gave it a bleed up:


The bulkhead now has a reamed out E30 grommet for the engine loom. Even with a load of lube, it was still a tight enough fit to make my thumbs feel like they've been peeled away from my thumb nails after fitting it.


The airboxes are now in too. The outer rear of the headlamps are tight to the filters, but with the plugs on the back of the lights turned 180 degrees, they fit in there just so. (Phew!)


The oil filter housing was looking a bit less than new, so I gave it a clean and a splosh of paint. It was silver, so I painted it silver again. It might end up black yet though.


I've bought seemingly enless bits of pipe, P clips, cable ties, hose connectors and the like, which I'm hoping will be delivered tomorrow, so, as ever, there will be more!

Cheers. Dave.

[davethegoat]

Thanks mate!

Yep, the devil's in the detail eh! There's usually a good few ways of solving a problem too, so I find there's a good bit of time taken up looking at stuff, routing something, taking it off, re-routing, etc, etc. I'm really enjoying bolting things up and leaving them there rather than making templates, cutting steel, bending it, offering it up, tacking, checking fit, welding, finishing, bolting it up, un-bolting it, painting, putting it in a box!

I want to leave as much space as I can for the exhaust guy to work with, so there'll be a few bits living in boxes for a while yet... Having said that, it would appear that it's starting to look like it might actually run sometime!

Cheers! Dave.

[glenn]

thats looking good dave.

[davethegoat]

Cheers Glenn.

I got a few bits and pieces delivered the other day. I'd ordered some black, (yes, I said black,) coolant hose. A package arrived, and I thought "That'll be my black coolant hose". I opened the package and found this!:


WTF!
That pretty bright orange writing runs the entire length of the pipe.. Well at least I can be sure it's suitable for radiator hose I suppose! It's also pretty suitable for being sent back in the post. I can't help but wonder who thought that would be a marvelous idea??!

On the subject of coolant hoses Glenn, on your M3, did you use the M3 expansion tank, with the standard short feed hose? I mean this one: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2672- ... -hose.aspx
I'm wondering whether it'll bend back enough (without deforming) to connect to a pipe running along the length of the R/H head...

I've also had a look at where the stock M5 fuel filter/FPR will go. As a complete unit, there's no way of tucking it under the car so it's out of the way enough to keep me happy. So (if I use it complete) I think I'll mount it in the boot. Or, I *might* use a stock E30 filter (because I've got a new one), with the M5 FPR tucked away just downstream of it.

Cheers! D.

[glenn]

i used an e36 m3 header tank dave (just because i had one lying about here), but the e30 m20 tank would work just the same.
i cant remember what hose i used. i've usually got lots of 'bits & bobs' of pipe here, so i probably just made up what i needed.
i too used the e30 filter, and mounted the regulator up near the n/s turret/fusebox area.

[davethegoat]

Cheers Glenn. I thought about mounting my FPR up by the fuse box, but as suggested by yourself and GermanGorilla, I found a space to tuck it away near the fuel tank.
So, I removed the FPR from the filter and screwed this hose adapter on:


Hopefully, with some decent clips it'll hold 5 bar without popping off!

I made a drop bracket out of a bit of ally I had hanging around, gave the rear brake pipe a tweek, bolted the bracket to the floorpan, chopped the standard hose holding brackets down so that P clips would fit on the side of them, fitted a new (standard) fuel filter. A couple of feet of fuel hose, and a few clips and that'll be ticked off the list.






I'll more than likely get some kind of heat protection for the front portion of the fuel pipe, and probably some crimp clips to hold the pipes on.

Also, this turned up:


So I got a hacksaw, file and soldering iron out and fitted it to this:


As well as the insulator sleeve which came with the pump, I managed to use the standard bottom pump rubber, so hopefully it should run nice and quietly.

Some of the finish on the plenum was showing signs of the bonnet liner rubbing from the car it came from. I changed my mind about 15 times as to whether to put some paint on it, and eventually took the plunge with some satin black. I wasn't keen when I finished it, but now it's grown on me.


Cheers! D.

[davethegoat]

I've been quietly having a small nightmare with leaking brake pipes since I fitted them. The ends were all sealing perfectly, except for the ones going into the T piece I'd bought:


To cut a long story short, after re-making all the pipes and buying another T piece, it turned out that the T piece seat angles were too sharp. This was causing the brake pipe nuts to bottom out before putting enough pressure on the pipe flares to seal them.
So, I found a drill bit which had less cutting angle than the seats, got my hand held drill out, and re-angled the seats. I didn't think I'd be able to hold the drill straight enough to leave the threads undamaged, but by some miracle, I ended up with all three seats re-angled with un-damaged threads!
Hey presto! No more leaks.

I'd bought an E30 M3 header tank, but the main hose routing was just that bit too much of a compromise, so I had a good search on the internet and bought another one.
Then, I made this:


And slid my new header tank onto it:


This sump guard turned up too. The seller is on here:


It's pretty close to the front face of the sump. I'll have a fiddle with it when I get a minute, but I might end up getting another bend or two put in it for extra clearance.

Cheers.