m20b25 from chromy into a facelift m40b16 injector problem

[george101]

i have spark now and the car will only run on easy start, i have fuel but the injectors arnt firing fuel, why is this ? can anyone help. or can then be manualy wired up?

thanks

[Grrrmachine]

Don't bodge it. If you've got spark and the fuel pump's running, you're most of the way there.

How have you confirmed the injectors aren't working? Have you put a test bulb across one of the injector plugs? If it lights, are you sure you've got your fuel hoses round the right way?

[george101]

Don't bodge it. If you've got spark and the fuel pump's running, you're most of the way there.

How have you confirmed the injectors aren't working? Have you put a test bulb across one of the injector plugs? If it lights, are you sure you've got your fuel hoses round the right way?

i havnt put a test bulb across to check but from previous engine i thought/believed you could hear the injectors making a clicking sound ?? im sure ive got the pumps the right way, fuel in is the pipe below the fuel pressure regulator? and out is the fuel pressure regulator?

[Grrrmachine]

It's always worth confirming, to make sure you haven't missed anything obvious. You need to confirm the injectors are getting power and if not, why not. They're directly controlled by the ECU but powered from the DME relay, so if they're not being triggered then one of those two things will be at fault.

[george101]

It's always worth confirming, to make sure you haven't missed anything obvious. You need to confirm the injectors are getting power and if not, why not. They're directly controlled by the ECU but powered from the DME relay, so if they're not being triggered then one of those two things will be at fault.

I'm sure it's the dme relay as that should make some sort of buzz sound? How would I wire that up? And how could I tell/test that the ecu is controlling the injectors correctly ?

[Grrrmachine]

Your DME relay must be partly working if your fuel pump is running; it supplies power to the fuel pump relay as well as the injectors.

Can you do the bulb test on the injectors, so that we're not barking up the wrong tree? Just take a 12v 5W bulb, and stick its two wires into the two terminals of an injector plug.

[george101]

Your DME relay must be partly working if your fuel pump is running; it supplies power to the fuel pump relay as well as the injectors.

Can you do the bulb test on the injectors, so that we're not barking up the wrong tree? Just take a 12v 5W bulb, and stick its two wires into the two terminals of an injector plug.

Right I should really correct myself I've got a manual fuel pump fitted in the engine bay just to get it running, but i know the DME relay was working in the donor car. Should I still do the bulb test? Also does the DME wires and fuel pump wire go through the c101 plug as I may need to match the pins together.

[Grrrmachine]

Oh right, you're bypassing stuff

Right, turn the ignition on and see if the Idle Control Valve buzzes. If it doesn't, you need to look into the DME wiring, including the ECU live feed. Also based on this, how have you confirmed that you're getting spark?

Making your own homebrew solutions makes things infinitely MORE complex to solve, not less.

[george101]

Oh right, you're bypassing stuff

Right, turn the ignition on and see if the Idle Control Valve buzzes. If it doesn't, you need to look into the DME wiring, including the ECU live feed. Also based on this, how have you confirmed that you're getting spark?

Making your own homebrew solutions makes things infinitely MORE complex to solve, not less.

yeah only the fuel pump :p but once everythings sorted i shouldnt have to do that !

ok right so it should buzz.. if not whats the case? i know you have said to look into the DME wiring but how do i go about this? also the ECU live feed? could this wiring be done thorugh the c101 plug or fues box?

i have comfirmed spark buy doing whats been said on my other post if you have a quick read your get the idea. http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=221647

[Brianmoooore]

What exact colour(s) are the wires that go to your 3 pin plug?

[Grrrmachine]

If the original fuel pump is working, it tells us other systems in the car work. If you've bypassed it, we have to go all the way back to the beginning and do a step-by-step test. And the link you posted doesn't make any mention of how you've tested for spark.

The DME and the ECU both get their live feed straight from the battery; the only wires going through the C101 plug that are ESSENTIAL to making the engine start are pin 7 (green wire) from the ignition switch to the coil, pin 13 (green/purple) for the fuel pump and pin 18 (black/yellow) from the ignition switch to the starter motor. This extra plug next to your ECU (as has been said many times) is for the instruments.

If the ICV doesn't buzz, then you're not getting 12V OUT of the DME relay. So you need to check if you're getting 12V into the DME relay, or if it's being switched.

All of the info was in this link that has been posted already:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... #Solutions

I can help you, but only if you perform these tests and say what is and isn't working.

[george101]

What exact colour(s) are the wires that go to your 3 pin plug?

1 is yellow/brown 2 is green 3 is black/blue
i was told you could wire this up stright into the c101 plug so i did, 1 (yellow/brown) was connected to yellow/white and 3 (black/blue) was connected to black. i didnt have a clue where 2 (green) was meant to be connected.

i also connected the black/yellow wire start-ignition switch in the c101 plug as the pins didnt line up.

i then turned the engine over and i now have spark!! so its just the case of the DME relay to get fuel and injectores working

[george101]

If the original fuel pump is working, it tells us other systems in the car work. If you've bypassed it, we have to go all the way back to the beginning and do a step-by-step test. And the link you posted doesn't make any mention of how you've tested for spark.

The DME and the ECU both get their live feed straight from the battery; the only wires going through the C101 plug that are ESSENTIAL to making the engine start are pin 7 (green wire) from the ignition switch to the coil, pin 13 (green/purple) for the fuel pump and pin 18 (black/yellow) from the ignition switch to the starter motor. This extra plug next to your ECU (as has been said many times) is for the instruments.

If the ICV doesn't buzz, then you're not getting 12V OUT of the DME relay. So you need to check if you're getting 12V into the DME relay, or if it's being switched.

All of the info was in this link that has been posted already:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... #Solutions

I can help you, but only if you perform these tests and say what is and isn't working.

ok i bypassed the fuel pump so yes i need to start over again. the way i got spark was by doing what i just replyed to (Brianmoooore ) if you have a quick read.

ok im going to check for power in the DME and let you know, so there should be direct power and eath to the battery from this?

[e30topless]

what have you connected the green wire to ?

[george101]

what have you connected the green wire to ?

nothing as im unsure where this goes? do you know?

i do have a picture but i dont know how to uplead

[Grrrmachine]

If your ICV doesn't buzz when you turn the key, you need to do this:

You need either a multimeter or a 5W test bulb. Find the DME relay, which should be in a small group of relays on the engine loom (NOT in the fuse box). Find the relay with five pins, and remove it from its socket.

First off, stick your bulb between pin 30 and ground, and confirm there's power at ALL times. That goes straight to the battery. Do the same with pin 86. If one or both of these fails to make the bulb glow, you need to check your wires that go to the battery positive terminal.

Now stick the bulb into pin 85 and turn the ignition on. Bulb should glow, showing that the ECU is operating the DME relay. If that doesn't happen, there's either damage to the wire or damage to the ECU.

Once you've confirmed all those, use some wire and directly connect BOTH pins 87 to pin 30. That bypasses the DME relay completely, forcing power to the injectors on one side and the fuel pump relay on the other. Confirm by doing the bulb test on the injector plug, as mentioned earlier.

Can you try all those and report back?

[george101]

If your ICV doesn't buzz when you turn the key, you need to do this:

You need either a multimeter or a 5W test bulb. Find the DME relay, which should be in a small group of relays on the engine loom (NOT in the fuse box). Find the relay with five pins, and remove it from its socket.

First off, stick your bulb between pin 30 and ground, and confirm there's power at ALL times. That goes straight to the battery. Do the same with pin 86. If one or both of these fails to make the bulb glow, you need to check your wires that go to the battery positive terminal.

Now stick the bulb into pin 85 and turn the ignition on. Bulb should glow, showing that the ECU is operating the DME relay. If that doesn't happen, there's either damage to the wire or damage to the ECU.

Once you've confirmed all those, use some wire and directly connect BOTH pins 87 to pin 30. That bypasses the DME relay completely, forcing power to the injectors on one side and the fuel pump relay on the other. Confirm by doing the bulb test on the injector plug, as mentioned earlier.

Can you try all those and report back?

yeah i can try all these and i will get back to you. i take it the pin numbers will be shown?

[Grrrmachine]

They should be embossed on the socket, yeah.

And I was a little wrong; ignore the bit about testing pin 85. The ECU should switch that to ground when the IGN switch is turned on.

[george101]

They should be embossed on the socket, yeah.

ok thanks, i will get back to you ok these things you have said.

[Brianmoooore]

Try connecting ignition switched live to that green wire in the three pin plug.
Relay terminal numbers are embossed onto the relay rather than its socket, plus there's a circuit diagram of the relay on the side of the case.
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, in the threads about this case, but a much better solution, that would have eliminated all wiring problems, as well as improving the engine's performance, would have been to upgrade the engine management system and engine loom to Motronic M1.3.

[george101]

If your ICV doesn't buzz when you turn the key, you need to do this:

You need either a multimeter or a 5W test bulb. Find the DME relay, which should be in a small group of relays on the engine loom (NOT in the fuse box). Find the relay with five pins, and remove it from its socket.

First off, stick your bulb between pin 30 and ground, and confirm there's power at ALL times. That goes straight to the battery. Do the same with pin 86. If one or both of these fails to make the bulb glow, you need to check your wires that go to the battery positive terminal.

Now stick the bulb into pin 85 and turn the ignition on. Bulb should glow, showing that the ECU is operating the DME relay. If that doesn't happen, there's either damage to the wire or damage to the ECU.

Once you've confirmed all those, use some wire and directly connect BOTH pins 87 to pin 30. That bypasses the DME relay completely, forcing power to the injectors on one side and the fuel pump relay on the other. Confirm by doing the bulb test on the injector plug, as mentioned earlier.

Can you try all those and report back?

yeah i can try all these and i will get back to you. i take it the pin numbers will be shown?

right ive had a crack at it i few problems, i dont have a pin 85 or 86? are these pins on the DME relay? did the check on the others bulb dosent light up, would the case be that the batery is now flat? but bulb works straight to battery?

[george101]

Try connecting ignition switched live to that green wire in the three pin plug.
Relay terminal numbers are embossed onto the relay rather than its socket, plus there's a circuit diagram of the relay on the side of the case.
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, in the threads about this case, but a much better solution, that would have eliminated all wiring problems, as well as improving the engine's performance, would have been to upgrade the engine management system and engine loom to Motronic M1.3.

so try connecting the green wire to the ingition wire black/yellow?

i could have done that if it was eaiser but i dont get the motronic?? i dont even know what mine is.

[Brianmoooore]

so try connecting the green wire to the ingition wire black/yellow?

Black/yellow is the start signal, not ignition live.
Ignition live is plain green.

[george101]

so try connecting the green wire to the ingition wire black/yellow?

Black/yellow is the start signal, not ignition live.
Ignition live is plain green.

ok so connect the plain green to the plane green ignition live? where would that be?

[george101]

so try connecting the green wire to the ingition wire black/yellow?

Black/yellow is the start signal, not ignition live.
Ignition live is plain green.

ok so connect the plain green to the plane green ignition live? where would that be?

pin 7 on the c101 plug?

[e30topless]

The 3 pin plug is the C104, and should have a black, a white, and a green wire.
the green is the ignition switched live to the DME relay.

dig around the steering column area you should find a solid green wire there to connect it to !!

this may help...

Right! I think I've finally cracked this.
I've found an ancient pre pre facelift version of a 325 wiring diagram that appears to match up with what you describe. Older than anything I've ever dealt with!
The 3 pin plug is the C104, and should have a black, a white, and a green wire.
The black is the feed for the rev counter, and in your body loom will be a black wire on pin 9 of the C101 by the fusebox.
The white is the fuel rate signal, and needs to connect to the white/black on pin 8 of your C101, and the green is the ignition switched live to the DME relay.
On all the E30s I'm familiar with, the DME relay is controlled by the engine ECU, but in yours it's switched directly by the ignition switch, and contrary to what I've said above, the supply to this doesn't go through the C101.
In the donor car for the engine there should be a 29 pin C103 plug and socket behind the glovebox which supplied all three connections to your C104, including a green from the wire connected to the green wire that goes along behind the dash. Basically, you've solved it yourself, and it appears that it's correct to connect this green wire in the C104 to the green wire that comes from the ignition switch, preferably after the plug and socket clipped to the steering column, but any plain green will do.

[Brianmoooore]

Plain green comes off of the ignition switch, goes through the plug and socket half way down the steering column, goes through a plug and socket above the glovebox, and then to pin 7 in the C101. You can pick it up anywhere you like, but just make it a temporary wires twisted together connection for now.
I've vague recollections of a version of the wiring which I thought was much earlier than yours, where a second ignition live feed is required to the engine loom.

[Brianmoooore]

Vague recollections that e30topless can remember, even if I can't!

[george101]

Vague recollections that e30topless can remember, even if I can't!

right i think the problem have been solved but battery is dead just gonna jump start the car and i will let you know !!

[george101]

finally !! the engine runs ! thank you everyone for all you help! ive learnt alot from this too, im sure i will have another problem at some point ha so keep eyes open

[Grrrmachine]

So was the problem the green wire?

[george101]

So was the problem the green wire?

yeah it was the green wire soon as connected turned key fuel pump went off and heard a buzz

[Grrrmachine]

Great stuff, and congratulations. That was a pretty obscure problem!

I'll try to add e30topless' info to the Wiki in future, in case it happens again.

[george101]

Great stuff, and congratulations. That was a pretty obscure problem!

I'll try to add e30topless' info to the Wiki in future, in case it happens again.

yeah i thought the problem couldnt be fixed, but it has so that great news. Just gotta fit everything else together now then it will be done.

once again thanks to all the people that helped!!