Vibrations after new guibo and bearing

[tha881]

For a while now my drivetrain has felt a little slack and was knocking when pulling away and changing gear etc. I put it in with a independent bmw specialist near me to have the guibo replaced aswell as the center bearing and mount. First thoughts were good just as id expected, the gear changes feel tighter and there is less prop movement when pulling away. However from around 55mph to 70mph the car now has a very annoying vibration. You can feel it through the chair. It comes back at around 80ish aswell. It didnt do this before, or if it did id never noticed.

I took the car back round to the garage, told them it wasnt vibrating before and so must be something to do with the way its been put back together, would they mind having another look. They did, and to their credit they have spent an afternoon trying to find what it was. They agree with me it does vibrate, but they assure me its all been put back together properly, they have double checked. I trust them, they have over 25 years experience working with bmw's , and i dont think its anything theyve done. Talking with them they know the two halves are marked for balance, that the bearing needs sliding forward etc.

I had a rear anti-roll bar fitted at the same time as mines a 320i and didnt have one. However they took this off breifly today to see if it might help but it didnt. So none the wiser really, any ideas at what i could try next? I have searched but it says replace guibo and bearing lol, which has been done. I was thinking about offering up another diff with new bush? Thanks for reading

[DanThe]

What are the gearbox/engine mounts like? Its worth replacing them if theyve never been done while in your ownership, unless they look obviously new of course, when worn they slop about causing tilt and this will put the engine/box/prop out of line

[tha881]

Cant say ive looked at them tbh. Im guessing that now the propshaft is performing how it should it is making other parts perform badly. The vibration feels as though its directly below the handbake area, so the gearbox mounts could be worn out, it seems likely. The metal mounts should be ok i take it, you mean the rubber ones? i know the engine has both, is this the case for the gearbox aswell? thanks again just its annoying when you try and improve the car and you found you have made it worse!

[capri_rob]

Not cheap from BMW for genuine ones but definately worth replacing if they're the 20+ Year old originals - I think they're about £18 each from the dealer

[Andyboy]

Q Drive coupling and centre bearing? They're known to be crap. Guibo fitted correctly? The arrows on the side of the guibo MUST point towards the legs on the prop/gearbox flages. If they point the other way (i.e towards the nut/bolt heads) the guibo won't be loaded up properly and will fail in about 100 miles or so. Although the vibration is under the handbrake (centre bearing area), a guibo problem will cause vibration and knocking there. If it hasn't got the big vibration damper, it's worth fitting one.

[tha881]

Thanks for the advice. Coupling was marked SGF and the center bearing i bought from c3bmw was advertised as lemforder so parts quality shouldnt be an issue. I saw the q-drive warnings on here a while back, so will not get to sample the pleasure [or pain in most cases!] of using them.

Today i successfully completed a 400 mile round trip to exeter and the guibo is still intact i am pleased to report, and i had it well over a ton just to see if it shattered into peices lol. I also thought if i give it some abuse it might fix itself, no luck though! Other than the vibration the car performed faultlessly for the whole journey.

The vibration was pretty bad at times, but after driving it seems to be transmitting through the rear wheels more than i had realised. In the lower gears right through the rev range the prop is smooth as anything, its only in 4th and 5th when at higher speeds that the car vibrates. If it was the prop would it not feel rough in every gear not just at certain speeds?

Im not certain but im starting to think the d/s/r is the source, so maybe fitting the rear arb has had an effect on something? By making the back end more solid perhaps? Or maybe the rear alignment is out a touch somehow?

Things to try next-

Engine mounts
Gearbox mounts

If it persists-

Replacement diff/shafts and bush
Rear disc conversion and all rear bushes

[DanThe]

Do you have standard wheels fitted?

[e30topless]

I reckon the prop is out of line especially since it didn't do it before they fitted the centre bearing

[johnl320]

+1 on the prop, Item 1 in the pic could be knackered, I've had to renew it on one of mine before.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=26&fg=10

[tha881]

Do you have standard wheels fitted?

Yep 15" bbs recently balanced, no buckles

[tha881]

+1 on the prop, Item 1 in the pic could be knackered, I've had to renew it on one of mine before.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=26&fg=10

In fact i did order a new centring sleeve, aswell as new nuts and bolts for the coupling, but as per usual when i need parts in a hurry the postie doesnt deliver in time. Told him i can leave the car overnight, but he assured me the old sleeve and nuts looked fine to re-use. Hes never replaced a centring sleeve when doing a coupling in 25 years. When i took it back in i told them i now have the new bits, and it must be the centring sleeve causing it [being polite as this was only part not replaced] but they were positive it couldnt be!?

[mrLEE30]

did they preload the centre bearing?

if they look at you puzzled my money is on this.

they need to loosen the bearing carrier bolts and slide the housing 5mm toward the gearbox and then retighten in this forward position, this stretches the rubber mount of the centre bearing and centres it properly.

[Billwill]

Did they line up the two sections of the propshaft properly after fitting the centre bearing?

[tha881]

Ive just got under the car to take a look and here is a photo of the coupling, please take a look -



Does this look correct??

[bss325i]

Ive just got under the car to take a look and here is a photo of the coupling, please take a look -



Does this look correct??

NO! The arrow should be pointing to the metal flange!

Also, the nuts and bolts should always be replaced.

If they have fitted the giubo the wrong way round, what's to say they have fitted the prop back on correctly?!

[tha881]

Thought it was wrong as soon as i saw it

Thanks for confirming. Im releived i found the problem [after 60 secs under the car!], but really worries me they did not know this. As you say, how do i know they have done everything else correctly? Times like this i wish i had a ramp, could have done a better job myself. Im not paying somone else to fix their mistake so i have no choice but to take it back to them, and i will do so till it is right!

Thanks for all the advice

[e30topless]

I have driven frag ready turds with ruined giubo's and knackered prop bearings and they have been sort of ok,

if the 2 halves of a propshaft are one spline out of alignment it will vibrate at speeds over 40mph, the prop has to be split to fit the centre bearing and no doubt this is when it's happened...

there should be 2 white dots one on each part that should line up, you can see one of them here, (not the bit that's circled !)


these markings aren't always visible so getting it to run true again can be difficult
I have done this once and managed to get the front and rear UJ's to sit inline and luckily it was ok but other than that you may need to have it balanced

[tha881]

I cant access that myself though without removing the exhaust can i? I might print the bentley manual off and hand them a copy. Cheeky but necessary i think!

They did say it was marked and assured me it all went together correctly, but after the latest revelation i cant be sure.

To be honest the coupling wasnt that bad it was more the bearing that was knackered, but i decided while it was all off get them to do the lot in one go. I thought it was a good idea at the time

[bss325i]

To be honest the coupling wasnt that bad it was more the bearing that was knackered, but i decided while it was all off get them to do the lot in one go. I thought it was a good idea at the time

It was a good idea to do both, it's just they haven't done it right.

[tha881]

Time for an update on this, it doesnt get much better. I dont want to say too much just yet as the problem isn't completely solved, as far as im concerned anyway.

I went back round to the garage on tuesday after the easter weekend, and had a chat with them. I told them that im pretty sure the coupling is fitted incorrectly. I was met with a hasty response, telling me there is no where it is incorrect. After a bit of persistence with them making it clear that they are annoyed with me, they agreed to have another look and change it on thursday.

Later that day i sent them an email. Here it is -

Hi Geoff/Matt its Craig,

I just want to get a few things cleared up after earlier today. I understand when you carry out a job you price to do it once, and it must be a real pain me keep bringing the car back round to you - it is not something i like doing. I really do appreciate your time spent on the car after the initial work was carried out, in helping to find where the vibration was coming from. To date i cant fault yourself or Matt, on your service in any way whatsoever.

I also hope you can see this from my perspective, i need to use the car daily and this hasnt been possible since the work on the propshaft was carried out. I spent money hoping to improve the car, but it is actually worse than before and is not really safe to drive in my opinion.

I have attached a photo of the coupling, which clearly illustrates the point i was trying to make earlier. All literature i have found confirms that the coupling is mounted incorrectly, and that as it is mounted at present, could break up within 200 miles. I have done more than this and am a little worried that the coupling may have sustained some damage, and is not going to last aslong as it might have done. Also the vibration isnt going to have done other components any favours either. I have attached a section from the haynes manual (page 7 of 12 describes the coupling) maybe i am misunderstanding what it says?

I do appreciate your offer to have another look at the car on Thursday morning, and if you happen to agree with me that the mounting of the coupling is wrong and needs changing, then i would be extremely grateful if you could find time to put it right. You can have the car all day if need be, there is no rush. If the new sleeve/bolts/nuts i have at home could be used aswell, it would see that the job is done the best way possible, and in my opinion minimize any chance of the vibration recurring

Regards

Craig

So dropped the car off thursday morning, had a phone call from them around 1pm, 'we have changed it round, but it has made no difference im afraid' almost as if he is pleased to have proved it is nothing to do with what he has done. Now i have asked them on several occasions for their 'expert' opinion as to where the vibration is coming from, and the things they have said range from a wheel/tyre problem, t needing a new propshaft, at no time have they taken any responsibility for the vibration, even though i have assured them it never done it before.

Anyway so i go round to pick up the car, and i said 'are the arrows are pointng the right way now?' He starts coming out with some rubbish about the bolts, so taking no chances i jacked up the car to take a look, and yep you guessed it, the arrows still point away from the flange! Unbeleivable! I am pretty pissd off at this point, some other customer is there taking their side (bear in mind im 23 and they are 30's and 50's).

After really struggling to get my point across about how it should be fitted, obv because they are the expert, they are qualified or whatever, they will not listen to me. They are moaning because they have spent 4+ hours on the car without pay, and it now comes down to, 'well if we change it and it still vibrates we want paying' i told them bollocks it is still fitted incorrectly. At first it was 'bring it back round tomorrow' i wasnt having none of it, ive had enough days off over this already. When i left it was 'we will chnge it now but if it still vibrates we want paying' so i just said yeah knowing they will not see another penny.

Now im not sure what method they are using to change the coupling round but we wont go there. They changed it round that afternoon, i went back round and they finally admit they had fitted it wrong. It still vibrates, although not as bad as it did. However i am still angry for obv reasons and told them i will drive it for a bit but if its still not right they can expect to see me again.

I told them that i now beleive the coupling is probably causing the vibration (having driven it for 500 miles with it facing the wrong way) and that i beleive a new one should be fitted. They disgree (as always). After a while they made this offer, 'we have one on the shelf, if we fit it and it cures the vibration, part and labour will be free, but if it still remains you will have to pay us'. But they wont fit a new centring sleeve at the same time, in case it does turn out to be that, and then they would be out of pocket, even though he has guaranteed me on several occasions, hes never replaced a sleeve in 25 years it wil be fine, hes now not sure to include this in his little 'offer'

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks for reading

[Andyboy]

Right. Get yourself a trolley jack and stands, borrow some tools and do it yourself. It'll take you an hour of swearing and you will most likely need to drop the exhaust off.
Failing that, get it round to Pacerpetes for either he or Barry to put a coupling on properly. I wouldn't reuse that one tbh. I'd be half tempted top put a complete used prop on - I'm sure Pete has one or two.

This lot are a pack of clowns - best they stick to changing Vectra oil filters or whatever it is they do best.

[bss325i]

Geoff Weeks AKA ETA Motorsport?!

[Andyboy]

Geoff/Matt

Aaaaah..........

[mrLEE30]

And when you get it fixed dont forget this part:

did they preload the centre bearing?

if they look at you puzzled my money is on this.

they need to loosen the bearing carrier bolts and slide the housing 5mm toward the gearbox and then retighten in this forward position, this stretches the rubber mount of the centre bearing and centres it properly.

[tha881]

Yes it is Barry. I've had a few bits done on the car there and not had any problems at all. Their labour rates are reasonable, they charged me £155 including vat for a brake fluid flush, fitting a rear arb and fitting new coupling and center bearing (i supplied the parts obv) which i thought was good. They are nice enough to deal with, until you go back round with a problem saying they have done something wrong, which in their mind they obviously thought they hadn't so you can understand to a certain extent.

However i am still left with a car that vibrates, and if it wasnt for me checking the coupling and telling them how it should be fitted (twice) i would still be driving round with it facing the wrong way. Which imo is not good enough.

[bss325i]

No, its not acceptable at all and they should be embarrassed and apologetic not awkward and in denial!

It's not the first thing i have heard about that they have fitted wrong.

£155 is a fair price for what they have done.

[threelander]

my money is on the prop being out of balance as they did not mark it when taking it off.i had the same problem also make sure they put the front end bolts in the rite way ie 3 faceing forward and 3 facing back otherwise it will rip the guibo to shreds.where are you located as i have a good prop marked up with new centre bearing

[Brianmoooore]

Now that the garage involved has been named, this thread has the potential to become libellous, so I advise everyone posting on here to proceed with caution.
I have looked at the pic. of the guibo, and personally I can't be sure which way the arrow is facing. There appears to be a raised, solid arrow pointing the wrong way, but there is also what could be an arrow composed of two straight lines pointing in the right direction.

[tha881]

It was fitted the wrong way round Brian. They have admitted that. The arrows definitely pointed away from the flange.

Step 1 was getting them to admit their mistake, which they have

Step 2 is them fixing the error, and any problems caused by their error

They have turned the coupling so it now faces the correct way, but i am left with a car that vibrates still. I believe the condition/reliability of the coupling i provided (or whichever coupling it is they fitted) is now questionable, and a brand new part (which was what i gave them) should be fitted. Is that unreasonable to expect?

Hopefully next time i post i can say some good words about eta, im sure many customers have had very good experience dealing with them, as i have had before. I have only recorded my experience here to obtain advice, not even knowing initially that they had fitted anything wrong!

[capri_rob]

Problem you may have is IF they have fitted a new coupling and they have used the cheapest possible one from GSF or ECP then it won't last 5 minutes anyway.

Brand new doesnt mean its any good especially if its Q-drive or some such shyte.

Just skimming back through your posts its unclear whether the prop was split and then refitted properly the first time round, Has the new centre bearing been fitted & preloaded and is it a decent quality one ?

Hope you get it sorted - as per previous comments I'd be enlisting an E30 expert such as Barry or Pacer to get to the bottom of it and fix it properly with the right quality bits.

[Brianmoooore]

So what is their excuse for fitting it wrongly? They claim to be BMW experts, and the guibo and propshaft reassembly to keep it balanced bit isn't just E30 specific - These or very similar parts exist on virtually every BMW made.
Whether it's the cause of the vibration or not, a guibo that has been incorrectly fitted and driven for as many miles as you claim will have been weakened at best, and should be replaced with (quality) new.
If it is the prop. that's reassembled incorrectly and causing the vibration, I wouldn't be too happy about what it might have done to the centre bearing mount either.

[e30topless]

a guibo that is fitted the wrong way around won't vibrate, it will however have a shorter life, same goes for a centre bearing that is not pre-loaded..

the prop is out of alignment, simples.. unless they have done something really silly like not tighten up the diff end !!

[Andyboy]

You should see the two white alignment dots on the prop - do they line up?

[DanThe]

The white dots dont always line up exactly, aligning the UJ's at each end of the prop is more important.