My 320ise S62.

[Phill172]

Wow, seriously fantastic work. The radiator looks amazing too, very tempted to treat mine to one of those!

When I had my engine sat as far back as possible the damn heater matrix hoses kept getting pin size holes in them, so had to really think about getting some clearnace in there!. How far back have you managed to get yours?

[davethegoat]

Thanks Phill!
The engine mounts are set in the forward-most position on the 300mm.de engine "arms", but I'll have a look at how far I can rotate the mounts (and engine position) back when I get home. The main limiting factors are (as you know) the heater pipes (which *could* be modified), and the steering rack/sump clearance.
I took some pictures of clearance between the bulkhead and engine today, but my camera lead is packed away in my snowboard bag round a mate's house.

I routed the engine loom through the bulkhead today. I'll get some pics up when I get back.

I did start to wonder whether mounting a different rack behind the crossmember and modifying the bulkhead would be the way forward, but I think it'd be a lot of hassle for not much gain.

Yep, the rad is rather nice isn't it!

[Rancid]

Some nice work Dave and awesome project look forward to further updates

[davethegoat]

Cheers Rancid! I'll try to keep this updated as best I can.

I got back from Chamonix at the weekend. I've spent a couple of seasons in Canada over the last few years, and have been trying to figure out a way that I can spend more winters in the mountains without working... So far, I've not come up with much!

Anywho, I've not done a great deal at all this week, but thought I'd pop the photos up of how I routed the engine loom through the bulkhead. Where the S62 loom leaves the engine, it routes upwards a couple of inches, then toward the nearside of the bulkhead via a plastic cover and 45 degree rubber boot, and isn't long enough to mount the ECU anywhere in the passenger footwell area as I kind of planned.
I didn't take any "before" pics, but I cut away the upward pointing part of the cover and cut a portion of the plastic trunking from the loom, which now lives between the cover and the 45 degree boot...
It still needs finishing with proper cable ties, a grommet and a tidy up, but (hopefully!) you get the idea. :





Here's how much bulkhead clearance there is at the moment...


I've not got the gearbox fitted, so the engine's pretty much plonked in there at the moment. I'm pretty sure I'll give the heater pipes a tweak so they exit parallel to the rear of the block which will give a little more clearance.

Cheers. Dave.

[turk]

You'll find plenty of space behind the ashtray area if u haven't got aircon, the wiring should be plenty long enough to get to a decent mounting point. Let me know when are ready for me to do some wiring ;)

[glenn]

thats where i ran the engine harness on my s62 swap dave,
its where it felt 'right'.

[davethegoat]

Cheers Turk, I'll check that out if I get time tomorrow.
I'm going to order some plugs and pins etc from BMW when I get round to it, so I'll give you a shout.

I don't suppose anyone's got BMW part numbers for the X60011 plug and pins?

Thanks Glenn. It's good to know that we both came to the same conclusion!

I had a mess about with my engine mounts yesterday/today. When I first did a test fit, I used a set of second hand E39 mounts which I bought off fleabay. They obviously weren't a matched pair, so when I noticed the engine was on the pi$$ a bit, I wasn't overly concerned. However, yesterday, with my new mounts fitted and rotated equally, the right hand side of the engine sat 10mm higher than the left. The left hand engine mount was also getting a fair old off centre squeeze.



The problem was with the engine arms.

I must point out that these are NOT www.300mm.de parts, but replicas.

The seller of the arms offered a 10mm spacer and told me basically that they fitted ok. Now call me old fashioned, but I prefer not to have engines mounted on the pi$$ thanks, so I cut the offending mount arm and rewelded/braced it so it fits correctly.
I'll post pics up if anyone's interested, but it's a pretty straightforward cut and shut job.

The real pain in the arse of all this, is that I took the measurements for my custom mounts from the incorrectly put together mount. I'll have a proper look when I bolt the arm back on tomorrow, but if I don't need to have the custom mounts shortened 10mm or buy another set of mounts, I'll owe myself a fiver.

Ah well, onwards and upwards!

Cheers. Dave.

[davethegoat]

I had a bit of an engine lining up session earlier this week. As I said, the engine height was 10mm out from side to side. As I didn't say, it was also off centre too. With a couple of solid spacers to give the engine mounts the correct height, a bit of jiggling and some spacers behind the O/S mount, I got the engine sitting level, and in line +/- just a couple of mm. The aluminium parts of the mounts are now at a local engineering company getting 3mm taken off each end.
When I get the mounts back, I'll be able to get on and test fit the gearbox, make a mount and shorten the gear lever rods.

In the mean time, I wasn't keen on the heater pipes popping off the matrix, so I modded the ends with some Araldite and a file:



Does anyone know where I can get something like this, but with 19mm (ish) ends?

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/Blac ... d_SBHJ1690

I also dug out the heater cover panel which I'd previously stripped of its sound proofing and looked like this:



I cut off the studs, beat out some of the pressed protrusions where the studs fitted, welded up a couple of holes, skimmed a bit of filler here and there, plopped a bit of paint on, and hey presto!:

[davethegoat]

So, I got my engine mounts back, (now 6mm shorter than they were) and today, had a go at fitting the gearbox.
I decided I'd like to try not to use spacers between the chassis rails and subframe for obvious reasons (geometry/bump steer). I thought it might involve a little more work but (hopefully!) it should be worth it.
I also want to be able to remove the 'box without semi removal of the engine.
With the engine on its mounts (which I rotated foreward), and rocked back as far as it'll go, I got the 'box in this far:


In other words, a bloody mile off!
I did think about dropping the crossmember/engine, but seeing as I like to make things hard for myself, I stuck to my guns, popped the engine out, and got the grinder.

Before:


After:


To be continued!

[glenn]

a bit drastic dave?

[turk]

Wow. Thats brave

[davethegoat]

It might be a bit drastic Glenn, and *maybe* I could have got away with a bit of massaging with an Irish spanner, but, it would probably have looked pretty $hite. I know it wouldn't be seen without a proper look when the engine and 'box are fitted, but I would have already seen it!
Also, like I said, I want it to be possible to fit a clutch without it being an utter ball ache.

Brave? or... the other one Turk?!

Anywho, the bloody 'box still wouldn't go in with the engine fitted! It needed to go up a bit from here as the top of the bellhousing fouled the top of the transmission tunnel:


So, I popped the engine out again, and did some more cutting


It's still tight going in, but the gearbox now fits when the engine's rocked back on its mounts.

With somewhere close to 10mm between the rack and the sump, and the gearbox topped out on the transmission tunnel, the engine sits tilted back way too far :


The only way I can think of getting it to sit level, is to cut and extend the transmission tunnel upwards. However, this (at first glance) will mean that the centre bearing will need to be moved higher into the transmission tunnel too...

I don't suppose you remember roughly how much sump to rack clearance you ended up with on your engine Glenn? Did you get your engine sitting pretty much level?

Cheers. Dave.

[turk]

Haha, you certainly don't do things by halves do u mate

You could make up the hoses and all the cables to be quick release with easy connectors etc. modify a jack to fit the subframe and balance the engine, then 8 bolts and the whole lot could drop through. Nice easy clutch change

But I like your way too!

[turk]

ps I think theres around 10mm between the sump and subframe if you use the 750IL mounts, yours are completely different tho... I think you may be forced to use the spacers in order for the bonnet to close.

[davethegoat]

True Turk!
I did think about getting the radiator modded to use the Q/R connectors (but dissmissed it because of the obvious expense). The heater hoses will stay fitted with the standard connectors, so it wouldn't have taken much effort really!
I'm pretty sure that the gearbox still would have been tight though... Hopefully mine won't!

Edited to say, with 10mm clearance, there's enough bonnet/airbox clearance.

[turk]

Lol, Im sure it will work out mate. How far do u need to be able to pull the gearbox back to get it over the flywheel and clutch?

Once upon a tim I thought about installing in built hydraulic lifts to each corer of the car for easy access to the underside. Wild ideas, got to love em!

[davethegoat]

Because the clutch and flywheel is pretty deep, it needs to be pulled back a fair way! I'll have a measure up when I remove it all next time if you want?

I could have just welded a couple of bottle jacks to the crossmember now I think about it!!

[glenn]

i think i had about 10mm clearence between the sump and the rack's top mountings, and then the bonnet would close, albeit very close!
to get the gearbox on, i had to do it the same way as my current swap.
the engine is lowered into the bay, without the crossmember fitted. then the gearbox was fitted, then raised back up into the bay and the crossmember refitted etc.
i didn't think i would be changing clutches often enough to be bothered about the hassle of doing it this way.

[davethegoat]

Cheers Glenn.

How level did you get the engine? Did you modify the transmission tunnel at all?

[glenn]

the engine was level dave, and i didn't need to touch the tunnel.
as with all of these big engine swaps though, the tolerences become very tight!
i've seen me lift the engines 'in & out' lots of times, because measurements for spaces are critical.

[davethegoat]

Thanks again mate. Buggered if I can see how at the moment mind!

I'll have to have another look at mine tomorrow.

[Jonsku]

10mm sounds quite a lot of clearance, I'm running with 3mm without any problems

Same applies also to the transmission tunnel, as long as you've rigid mountings that prevent the 'box from moving around you can get away with 2..3mm clearances.


As the S62 is very tall (airbox), you'll need every mm you can possibly get

[glenn]

Thanks again mate. Buggered if I can see how at the moment mind!

I'll have to have another look at mine tomorrow.

have a look through some of my old s62 threads dave, there should be some pics of the sump clearance in there somewhere?, you should also be able to see the angle at which the engine was sat.

10mm sounds quite a lot of clearance, I'm running with 3mm without any problems

Same applies also to the transmission tunnel, as long as you've rigid mountings that prevent the 'box from moving around you can get away with 2..3mm clearances.

thats right jonsku, using good stiff mountings will help when clearances are getting tight.

[davethegoat]

Once again, thanks for your help guys!

I found pics from your thread on page 25 Glenn. Cheers!

I removed the mounts (again) yesterday, and replaced the 25mm tall flexible part of the mounts with 15mm ally spacers. The engine now sits pretty much level.
I still need to have a jiggle about to get it exactly where I want it, but it's close enough not to give me nightmares now.

Funnily enough Jonsku, where it's sitting now, I have just about exactly 3mm clearance!

I'm now on the lookout for a propshaft... and some more advice!
From what I've read, I have a couple of options.
1. Use a complete E30 prop, with a 6 speed front flange welded on.
(Not perfect, as the E30 prop can break, but, would retain the centre sliding joint)
2. Use a 6 speed prop complete with 6 speed centre bearing modified with E30 rear U/J.
Do the 6 speed props have a sliding centre joint? I know they have a splined centre joint, but from what I've seen, there's a bolt which (perhaps) pulls the splined part together so it becomes solid?

Cheers! D.

[Jonsku]

Heh, glad to hear it fits there nicely! How much space do you have over the airbox?


Regarding the propshaft, I'd definitely use the front part from 6-speeder as they're quite much larger in diameter compared to e.g. E30 units. The front part can be welded to the E30 part just before the flexible joint, as they have same diameter there. Thus you can retain flexbile joint and center bearing.


Here're couple of pictures from the latest project, though here just the E30 front part has been used with the bigger front flange (the large diameter fron part would've been very short due to very, very long automatic gearbox so we decided to go without it).

http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/58+-+driveshaft.JPG

http://v8cabrio.kuvat.fi/kuvat/81_driveline.JPG

[davethegoat]

My thread's going to be filled with me thanking everyone again and again before long!

I ordered the front half of an E34 540i propshaft today. Hopefully it'll be with me in the next few days. I also ordered a new Lemforder centre bearing, so I'll be able to have a measure up and find a company to make it all fit together. I'll get a new rear U/J fitted too while I'm at it. Once I line up the prop, I'll knock up a gearbox mount.

I also ordered a throttle pedal position sensor, as I didn't get one with my engine. The guy I ordered it from is going to cut a few plugs which I need from his loom for me too. (X60004, OBD2, and the plug from the pedal position sensor). I still need an X60011 plug (chassis side) if anyone's got one lying around?!

Apart from that, I've not done too much, just bits and pieces.
Cut, test fitted and welded the steel part of the gear shift linkage. (I'll get the aluminium part welded by someone else):




Now the engine is sitting close to where it needs to be, there's a little more room for the top rad hose. I'm hoping to run an intake pipe over the top of the rad hose, but if there's not enough room, I'll revert back to getting an elbow welded on the rad for more clearance. Anyway, one of the original E30 rad hoses kind of doubles back on itself. I'll get pics tomorrow, but I cut this, and the S62 hose, and made a bit of link pipe. It's a bit on the rough side, but should work:




I started on an oil filter bracket today. Hopefully I'll get some pics up tomorrow.

I'll also have a measure of what airbox clearance I have Jonsku.

Cheers! Dave.

[davethegoat]

I've not got too much done in the last week. Life has got in the way somewhat!

The 540i prop turned up the other day, along with the centre bearing. I'll get it measured and drop it off to get sorted at a company not a million miles away during the week hopefully:


I used the old (knackered) centre bearing with what remained of the rubber cut out of it to line up the gearbox, and started on a gearbox mount. I was after some smaller steel channel than I ended up with, but anything smaller was seemingly near impossible to get hold of. Anyway, I don't think it'll break!
Here it is unfinished. It might end up being a fair bit shorter at its front ends, and shaped a little more. Hopefully it'll look less like something from a bodged tractor when it's done!


Here's the top hose which I test fitted last week:


I tried to get some decent pictures of bonnet-airbox clearance Jonsku, but couldn't, so here's a cr@p one!
I'll have a mm or two more when I tighten the engine mounts and bolt the airbox on without a lifting strap under the right hand rear of it.


Another at the centre (front). (You can just see the "M" badge)

[glenn]

i had to shorten the threads, and change the nut, for the bolt at the front of the airbox dave, the one just in front of the '///M' logo.
when i did my first bonnet close, i did it very slowly and i could just feel it starting to 'imprint', just as the bonnet was almost fully shut.

[turk]

Any more Progress Dave? Need to see more of your brake bracket

[davethegoat]

I've been tied up with other things for a bit Turk, so haven't had a chance to do much.
I have been thinking about my gearbox mount though. I might have dropped a bit of a ball. I'll have a proper measure up before making an @rse of myself on here (when I get a chance), but there's a possibility that I'll be starting again with it.

Let me know what you need pics of and I'll fire some over.

That's properly tight clearance Glenn! I'm hoping to get my prop back this week, so I can get everything aligned spot on, then get every last millimetre of clearance left!
IIRC, you used an M5 prop with E30 rear U/J? Did you use the M5 centre bearing? Is it offset like a stock E30?

Cheers! Dave.

[Jonsku]

That looks like a tight fit there!

Don't remember, did you drop the front subframe?

[davethegoat]

I'll be able to get a few more mm's there, but yep, it's pretty tight! Nope, no subframe spacers.

I managed to grab enough time to get my tape measure out today.
As the gearbox sits on its rear mount now, (mounted to the chassis in line, but further back than standard) the 'box is somewhere close to 15mm offset to the right. Mounted like this, the prop lines up with the standard E30 (offset) centre bearing. The diff flange is offset (also to the right) by somewhere just short of 20mm.
Now, 15mm's difference from the front of the engine to the rear of the gearbox is barely anything in terms of alignment angle, but the pedant in me says that it should be in line.
However, as the diff flange is also offset, running a little offset at the gearbox gives the propshaft a straighter run, so less strain/possibly better reliability.

So, what do you reckon guys? Engine and 'box in line? Or offset?


Cheers. Dave.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Is the Drive lin Offset due to the centre bearing
outer carrier frame ?

I always used the E36 325 TD Prop as
its 'oversized' on the prop front section but
use the same centre bearing carrier frame
as the E30 etc.

BMW E30 M3 has two different centre bearing
carriers, one is wider than the other, so
might be worth a look ?

Is the Drive Line offset to the left
or to the Right of the driveline rotating
torque steer ?

If looking down the drive line tunnel,
towrds the rear subframe / diff etc,
if the offset, ie Prop etc, is left hand biais
then I would not worry about it.

However if its right hand biais, then you
should think about correcting it.

The Torque 'steer' from the engine into
the drive line will always force from left
to right looking back down the drive line.
[direction of Crank rotation]

Thus any small offset against the Torque steer
is OK, but any offset with the Torque steer
just increase alignment issues as the
drive line Torque forces increase.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[turk]

Any progress

[davethegoat]

Any progress

In short, no, not really! I've been caught up in other stuff for a bit. I hope to get back to it soon though.

Thanks GermanGorilla.
Is the E36 325 TD Prop suitable for a 6 speed box? I've had my prop sorted now, but it'd be handy to know for future referance.
Here's (the modified bit of) mine:


The company I used didn't want to weld the prop tube directly to the U/J, so, as you can see, they made a reducer.


Looking down the driveline toward the rear of the car, the prop is offset to the left, so to the right hand side of the car, so, should be ok.
Yes, I lined up the engine/gearbox to line up directly to the offset centre bearing.
I'm still torn between getting it lined up completely straight, or leaving a little offset to give the prop a slightly easier time...
I should be able to grab enough time to fit the prop and get a pic or two tomorrow..

A mate of mine is going to sort out some exhaust flange CAD drawings for me soon, so I'll be ordering some exhaust tube in a bit.

To calculate what diameter tube is required, I need some cam timing figures. Specifically, the number of degrees the exhaust valves open before BDC at 4,500 RPM. I'm (as the Chinese would say) frucked if I can find any figures for the S62, but I've got some for the M62, which should do the trick if I can't find any further info.
I'm pretty sure the manifolds will be made of mild steel with some kind of coating applied to stop rust, and act as a thermal barrier. Anyway, that's a while away for now.

Cheers. Dave.