Bugatti veyron

[jonb]

What do zoners think of them?

[winx]

Hold my speed record at Bruntingthorpe in one of these at 220mph, very very quick in a straight line but it't just didn't feel as involving as other supercars for me. To do my topspeed run was just come off the bottom corner, plant your foot and wait until you brake, other stuff just felt more fun.
Then there is the servicing and parts costs which make what we charge for the F1 seem good value!

[pony]

I think the McLaren F1 is a "better" in that it is purer......high-revving NA engine, clever aero, no TC, designed by one of the greatest engineers ever Gordon Murray.

The Veyron.....fantastic achievement though because it had so many problems in its "birth" mainly overheating i think.....and the statstics for it make great reading.....however, the F1 can do 240mph or about that and the Veyron 253mph and it has over 300bhp more.......it just goes to show how much more "efficient" the F1 is. The only real improvements for the F1 would be brakes and xenons. The Veyron isnt beautiful and is fat but respect to buggati engineers all the same.

[winx]

I think the McLaren F1 is "better" ....

I agree but then I would

The only real improvements for the F1 would be brakes and xenons.

And happily around 75% of the roadcars have now been fitted with our upgraded gas discharge headlights

[pony]

I think the McLaren F1 is "better" ....

I agree but then I would

The only real improvements for the F1 would be brakes and xenons.

And happily around 75% of the roadcars have now been fitted with our upgraded gas discharge headlights

Why would u agree it is better in ur opinion ?

[Andyboy]

I'd have a Veyron like a shot. Just an epic sight to behold and a magnificent anachronism.

[snakebrain]

however, the F1 can do 240mph or about that and the Veyron 253mph and it has over 300bhp more.......

Fair enough, the Veyron weighs more. But when you get up to those speeds it takes more and more power/incremental aerodynamic imrpovements to eke out each extra mph.

I'd have an F1 over the Veyron myself.

[mrLEE30]

We have had a Veyron at our track on a track day, it was monsterously fast in straight line but after two laps it was done, I could feel the heat ten metres away. Basically it's too heavy for a track, and dare I say it too fast in the straights. F1 and MP4 are different cars entirely, the MP4 we had few weeks ago lapped the track from 9am till 6pm frequently at high speed and never missed a beat, I have never had an F1 at the track apart from one guy who has one and comes down to do a lap or two them goes home- thus never seen how it lasts. This for me the Veyron is a statement in engineering to be driven as a statement of wealth, McLaren, German, Italian and some US super are just better cars for a track- that for me makes them better cars.

So I would have a Veyron please, then it's off to the showroom to trade it in for an MP4, a 458 and a Panamera for the school run.

[pony]

however, the F1 can do 240mph or about that and the Veyron 253mph and it has over 300bhp more.......

Fair enough, the Veyron weighs more. But when you get up to those speeds it takes more and more power/incremental aerodynamic imrpovements to eke out each extra mph.

I'd have an F1 over the Veyron myself.

Yes the Veyron was meant to be fast and luxurious. I think u get a free Bugati watch if u order a Veyron but i am not completely sure on that.

The F1 has a number of firsts/good achievements
- extractor fan to help generate more downforce at the rear / cool the engine and the electronics
- carbon fibre chassis
- middle seat for good driving view
- good luggage space on par with a BMW 5 Series
- "air brake" but i dont believe this is a first as was in the Merc SL GullWing earlier
- generates good downforce without the need for huge spoilers (as per 911 Turbo think 993 v F355) and the aerodynamic drag associated with these spoilers. Except the McLaren F1 LM road cars of course.

Btw the BMW V12 i think uses very similar technology to the BMW E36 M3 Evolution engines......not completely sure on this but wouldnt be surprised if it were true?

[bss325i]

Btw the BMW V12 i think uses very similar technology to the BMW E36 M3 Evolution engines......not completely sure on this but wouldnt be surprised if it were true?

Yes, they share various design similarities especially in the cylinder head area.

[kam-325i]

but respect to buggati engineers all the same.

Should that be "Volkswagen Engineers" ?

[winx]

Why would u agree it is better in ur opinion ?

I have spent the last 5 years of my life looking after them and their owners so you get a bit biased!

Is the F1 you see at the track black, silver or orange MrLee?

Thought you might see some similarities when were poking around Barry, the F1 even used a Modic for the remote diagnostics, which proved useful when I got the e30 as I could use it on my car as well!

I have a lot of respect for the VW engineers packaging the Veryon, but as a little race in Abu Dhabi showed on top gear, heat soak is a bitch when you have a veryon!

[pony]

Why would u agree it is better in ur opinion ?

I have spent the last 5 years of my life looking after them and their owners so you get a bit biased!

A McLaren Cars/McLaren Automotive technician???
I AM NOT WORTHY !!!


I been to the old McLaren factory on a tour in 1999 - 2000 i think the one near Albert Drive.

Yes i remember reading bout the McLaren F1 has a OBD computer system means McLaren engineers can check the car on the other side of the world! And even send engineer and technician in the event of a break down or something like that? I got the McLaren F1 book and a Minichamps 1:12 McLaren F1 signed by one of my personal heroes Gordon Murray .

I have a lot of respect for the VW engineers packaging the Veryon, but as a little race in Abu Dhabi showed on top gear, heat soak is a bitch when you have a veryon!

I dont understand what u mean by heatsoak could u explain further?

I thought the F1 beat the Veyron (even though the veyron posts quicker 0 - 62mph times) because the stig is a better driver than hammond??

[kam-325i]

Heatsoak is the opposite of Heatsink.......

One is good at getting rid of heat, the other good at absorbing.

Example : Turbo Intercooler mounted on top of engine instead of in front of the car.....

[HairyScreech]

I have always though the veyron was a one trick pony built for foot ballers and other such wankers to show off.
90% of the car is just senseless and seems to follow a bigger is better mentality, its like vwaudi group just wanted to show how big there dick was.
There are a lot of cars out there in the after market that can do anything the veyron can do with half the cost and half the tech, the UR turbo lambos are a good example of this as are the twin turbo ford GTs an american company builds. (and many of those would show a veyron the way home in the corners, certainly some of the epic GT-Rs popping up recently)

I have had the pleasure (displeasure in some cases) of being up close and personal with a couple of original pre-40s Bugatti and a veyron isn't a patch on them, the old bugattis were finely honed machines with true racing pedigree while the veyron is built to go fast in a straight line.

I also hate the horseshoe on the veyron, i always think it looks like its hit a toilet seat at high speed.

This is a proper bugatti


This is wolfsburg scrap with no class, created by brand engineering and tenuous connections to the original cars.

[mrLEE30]

Is the F1 you see at the track black, silver or orange MrLee?

It was the orange one on the track, the silver one i have seen but only parked, dont know the black one. I assume you know who owns the orange one, hence my relutance to say too much about him, but the car is very nice and rumoured to be a special edition inside???

The MP4 was a beast, proper car. The guy you see driving it in my video is an ex formula ford uk champ (and a fellow instrutor) he was as impressed as me, his comments at the end are real, you guys can be proud!!!

Veryron for show, McLaren for go.

[pacerpete]

I have always though the veyron was a one trick pony built for foot ballers and other such ******* to show off.
90% of the car is just senseless and seems to follow a bigger is better mentality, its like vwaudi group just wanted to show how big there dick was.
There are a lot of cars out there in the after market that can do anything the veyron can do with half the cost and half the tech, the UR turbo lambos are a good example of this as are the twin turbo ford GTs an american company builds. (and many of those would show a veyron the way home in the corners, certainly some of the epic GT-Rs popping up recently)

I have had the pleasure (displeasure in some cases) of being up close and personal with a couple of original pre-40s Bugatti and a veyron isn't a patch on them, the old bugattis were finely honed machines with true racing pedigree while the veyron is built to go fast in a straight line.

I also hate the horseshoe on the veyron, i always think it looks like its hit a toilet seat at high speed.

This is a proper bugatti


This is wolfsburg scrap with no class, created by brand engineering and tenuous connections to the original cars.

This +100 .

The Veyron is a contrived vulgar expression of an excess of wealth and a shortage of taste, hence the camel shaggers loving them .

Poor old Ettore must be spinning in his grave

[snakebrain]

You think that's vulgar - why not get your Veyron gold-plated?!

[mrLEE30]

This +100 .

The Veyron is a contrived vulgar expression of an excess of wealth and a shortage of taste, hence the camel shaggers loving them.

I am the last person to argue a case for Arabs, but to fair on them the majority of these disgusting cars belong to Russians/eastern block - the shite taste in cars for arabs with money went in the 80's/90's and they have grown up a bit now - its the russian new money that pays for pink Veyrons these days, and in Dubai mainly to cleanse cash - no car dealer would turn down Russian cash veyron buyer or seller.

[Blitz]

[youtube][/youtube]

[pony]

I have always though the veyron was a one trick pony built for foot ballers and other such ******* to show off.
90% of the car is just senseless and seems to follow a bigger is better mentality, its like vwaudi group just wanted to show how big there dick was.
There are a lot of cars out there in the after market that can do anything the veyron can do with half the cost and half the tech, the UR turbo lambos are a good example of this as are the twin turbo ford GTs an american company builds. (and many of those would show a veyron the way home in the corners, certainly some of the epic GT-Rs popping up recently)

This is wolfsburg scrap with no class, created by brand engineering and tenuous connections to the original cars.

I agree with ur view. However, though with ur statement that many aftermarket supercars can match or beat the veyron.......will these aftermarket cars not be as "durable/reliable" as the Veyron? The reason i say this is because the Veyron is a "production" (well very loosely u can say that) road car it will have to pass all the crash tests safety standards etc set by VW Group, also VW will have spent millions and millions of pounds on the Design, R&D etc so will be more aware of the impact of say how fitting a turbo impacts the rest of the design of the road car and ensure everything fits in harmony.

E.g. bigger turbo --> bigger intercoolers / radiators / brakes / look at overall weight distribution how it has changed if changed / impact on handling / any suspension alteration / any other heat problems etc....

When i say "harmony" i mean that the components are not under-engineered and meet the overall design brief given to the engineers. Also, they are not over-engineered so excessively heavier and therefore stronger than required too.

And arent alot of tuners out there "cowboys"?

PS
lol is that pink veyron real or photoshopped it looks like something jordan (katie price) would have lol?

[pacerpete]

I have always though the veyron was a one trick pony built for foot ballers and other such ******* to show off.
90% of the car is just senseless and seems to follow a bigger is better mentality, its like vwaudi group just wanted to show how big there dick was.
There are a lot of cars out there in the after market that can do anything the veyron can do with half the cost and half the tech, the UR turbo lambos are a good example of this as are the twin turbo ford GTs an american company builds. (and many of those would show a veyron the way home in the corners, certainly some of the epic GT-Rs popping up recently)

This is wolfsburg scrap with no class, created by brand engineering and tenuous connections to the original cars.

I agree with ur view. However, though with ur statement that many aftermarket supercars can match or beat the veyron.......will these aftermarket cars not be as "durable/reliable" as the Veyron? The reason i say this is because the Veyron is a "production" (well very loosely u can say that) road car it will have to pass all the crash tests safety standards etc set by VW Group, also VW will have spent millions and millions of pounds on the Design, R&D etc so will be more aware of the impact of say how fitting a turbo impacts the rest of the design of the road car and ensure everything fits in harmony.

E.g. bigger turbo --> bigger intercoolers / radiators / brakes / look at overall weight distribution how it has changed if changed / impact on handling / any suspension alteration / any other heat problems etc....

When i say "harmony" i mean that the components are not under-engineered and meet the overall design brief given to the engineers. Also, they are not over-engineered so excessively heavier and therefore stronger than required too.

And arent alot of tuners out there "cowboys"?

PS
lol is that pink veyron real or photoshopped it looks like something jordan (katie price) would have lol?

The issue that most haterz ,including I have is that it is a VOLKSWAGEN. Created as a cynical c0ck waving marketing exercise by attaching a once proud name to a vulgar pointless monstrosity, albeit a very impressive, from a technolgy point of view, vulgar pointless monstrosity

[snakebrain]

Bugatti EB110 FTW!! That was a truly awesome beast...

[pony]

I have always though the veyron was a one trick pony built for foot ballers and other such ******* to show off.
90% of the car is just senseless and seems to follow a bigger is better mentality, its like vwaudi group just wanted to show how big there dick was.
There are a lot of cars out there in the after market that can do anything the veyron can do with half the cost and half the tech, the UR turbo lambos are a good example of this as are the twin turbo ford GTs an american company builds. (and many of those would show a veyron the way home in the corners, certainly some of the epic GT-Rs popping up recently)

This is wolfsburg scrap with no class, created by brand engineering and tenuous connections to the original cars.

I agree with ur view. However, though with ur statement that many aftermarket supercars can match or beat the veyron.......will these aftermarket cars not be as "durable/reliable" as the Veyron? The reason i say this is because the Veyron is a "production" (well very loosely u can say that) road car it will have to pass all the crash tests safety standards etc set by VW Group, also VW will have spent millions and millions of pounds on the Design, R&D etc so will be more aware of the impact of say how fitting a turbo impacts the rest of the design of the road car and ensure everything fits in harmony.

E.g. bigger turbo --> bigger intercoolers / radiators / brakes / look at overall weight distribution how it has changed if changed / impact on handling / any suspension alteration / any other heat problems etc....

When i say "harmony" i mean that the components are not under-engineered and meet the overall design brief given to the engineers. Also, they are not over-engineered so excessively heavier and therefore stronger than required too.

And arent alot of tuners out there "cowboys"?

PS
lol is that pink veyron real or photoshopped it looks like something jordan (katie price) would have lol?

The issue that most haterz ,including I have is that it is a VOLKSWAGEN. Created as a cynical c0ck waving marketing exercise by attaching a once proud name to a vulgar pointless monstrosity, albeit a very impressive, from a technolgy point of view, vulgar pointless monstrosity

Ok yes true......just a mine is bigger than urs exercise.

Respect to the Buggati (sorry VW Group) engineers for achieving the circa 1000bhp/250mph targets and most importantly not giving up!

Then Ferrari is also a Fiat?

[pacerpete]

I agree with ur view. However, though with ur statement that many aftermarket supercars can match or beat the veyron.......will these aftermarket cars not be as "durable/reliable" as the Veyron? The reason i say this is because the Veyron is a "production" (well very loosely u can say that) road car it will have to pass all the crash tests safety standards etc set by VW Group, also VW will have spent millions and millions of pounds on the Design, R&D etc so will be more aware of the impact of say how fitting a turbo impacts the rest of the design of the road car and ensure everything fits in harmony.

E.g. bigger turbo --> bigger intercoolers / radiators / brakes / look at overall weight distribution how it has changed if changed / impact on handling / any suspension alteration / any other heat problems etc....

When i say "harmony" i mean that the components are not under-engineered and meet the overall design brief given to the engineers. Also, they are not over-engineered so excessively heavier and therefore stronger than required too.

And arent alot of tuners out there "cowboys"?

PS
lol is that pink veyron real or photoshopped it looks like something jordan (katie price) would have lol?

The issue that most haterz ,including I have is that it is a VOLKSWAGEN. Created as a cynical c0ck waving marketing exercise by attaching a once proud name to a vulgar pointless monstrosity, albeit a very impressive, from a technolgy point of view, vulgar pointless monstrosity

Ok yes true......just a mine is bigger than urs exercise.

Respect to the Buggati (sorry VW Group) engineers for achieving the circa 1000bhp/250mph targets and most importantly not giving up!

Then Ferrari is also a Fiat?

Hardly a relevant comparison. Ferrari have been racing and making cars for 60 odd years . OK , Fiat have been bankrolling them and supplying wiper stalks for quite a few of them years but nobody can deny that Ferrari do have a rich history of significant road cars and racing success . As did the real Bugatti.

Volkswagens claim to fame is the beetle

[HairyScreech]

The couple of aftermarket cars i mention have proven to be very reliable, certainly at least as reliable as a veyron could be considered to be.
Excluding the gt-r i chose carefully to make sure the cars i mentioned were engineered well enough to be comparable in terms of function.

The w-16 quad turbo in the veyron is total overkill for 1000hp, and its actually a really stupid configuration, its practically trying to kill its bore and vibrate its self to death.

http://www.undergroundracing.com/
http://www.turbofordgt.com/web/index.ph ... e&Itemid=1

lain and simple, Joe Cermin's twin-turbo Ford GT is an absolute rocket ship, and we should know-we spent about three hours in and out of the throttle of this 1,012-rwhp machine that has sparked a wildfire of interest on the Internet. What's more impressive is that we flogged this fine piece of Ford artillery in the midday, 95-degree Florida sun. With the air conditioning chilling us down and AC/DC cranking on the speakers, the GT never missed a beat.

Read more: http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/f ... z1pUyvUDnq

[pony]

The couple of aftermarket cars i mention have proven to be very reliable, certainly at least as reliable as a veyron could be considered to be.
Excluding the gt-r i chose carefully to make sure the cars i mentioned were engineered well enough to be comparable in terms of function.

The w-16 quad turbo in the veyron is total overkill for 1000hp, and its actually a really stupid configuration, its practically trying to kill its bore and vibrate its self to death.

http://www.undergroundracing.com/
http://www.turbofordgt.com/web/index.ph ... e&Itemid=1

lain and simple, Joe Cermin's twin-turbo Ford GT is an absolute rocket ship, and we should know-we spent about three hours in and out of the throttle of this 1,012-rwhp machine that has sparked a wildfire of interest on the Internet. What's more impressive is that we flogged this fine piece of Ford artillery in the midday, 95-degree Florida sun. With the air conditioning chilling us down and AC/DC cranking on the speakers, the GT never missed a beat.

Read more: http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/f ... z1pUyvUDnq

The underground racing website looks impressive. Lol cant believe people want to turbo charge a Lambo as if it isnt fast enough already?

Btw the performance packages available they are just for the engine e.g. murceliago? They dont seem to consider the impact on the aerodynamics just the engine performance?

Got to say its alot cheaper than buying a Veyron and much more beautiful!

Still in the event of a technical failure of the car u couldnt go back to them and complain in the same way as if it were a manufacturer?
E.g. think buying a BMW AUC car v buying privately?

[SDM]

And to think that the Bugatti could have looked even worse!

[lugy]

Bugatti EB110 FTW!! That was a truly awesome beast...

[pony]

And to think that the Bugatti could have looked even worse!

Is that not a Bentley?

[cecotto479]

Many, many years ago, so many in fact that it was before I ever owned a BMW a crowd of us were "doing" Europe in road/race MGBs.

It was shortly after the Schlumpf factory was nationalised and turned into the French National Motor Museum. If you don't know the story, Google it. It's an amazing story, but to summarise, the Schlumpf brothers were astonishingly wealthy textile magnates in Mulhouse in Alsace, not far from Molsheim, and like most magnates accrued their vast wealth by exploiting their workforce. As the workforce lived in poverty and poor conditions, the brothers accumulated a huge collection of vintage Bugattis - including 3 of the 6 Royales and enough parts to build most of another, loads of Ettore's personal possessions, tools, papers etc. etc. A lot of stuff bought when the factory closed. I think they even owned Ettore's house. This private museum was barely known of.

As the French peasants do, they revolted. They took possession of the factory and staged a sit in. Again, as is their wont, they promised to burn a Bugatti a day until their demands were met. They burnt a couple before the French government stepped in and took over the factory and collection and sorted it all out.

The collection was nationalised and then formed the basis of the French National Motor Museum.

It had only just reopened when we arrived. Easter '86 I think. The plan was to get there early, get in at opening time, do a couple of hours and head to Basle.

We got in at 08:30. Before we knew it, it was lunchtime. We had lunch. Then dinner and had to be put out at 8 pm!

What a place. The first Bugatti, the last Bugatti, an electric Bugatti, type 35s, 57s and 59s galore. Not just cars though, parts, tools, drawings, automobilia.

Just utterly amazing.

Proper history. Not building one car for 50 years, then resurrecting it when things get tough.

[Blitz]

Bugatti type 41 Royale. What a car! Would have this over a veyron anyday.




Love their trains as well.

[cecotto479]

The train museum is also in Mulhouse and was planned for the afternoon, but was done the following morning. Very good too, but only a couple of hours worth. I wanted to go back to the Schlumpf collection but was outvoted.

[LondonTom]

I know that they are slower than my mates road going mk2 escort over a quarter mile.

[pacerpete]

I know that they are slower than my mates road going mk2 escort over a quarter mile.

Who cares. While your mate is showing a posse of council scummers his 3 bar and greens, the Veyron pilot will be barebacking all their birds !