MAF part number & remap (cost?)

[steve_k]

Evening folk's,

been doing a bit of reading about MAF conversion's on m20's & yes i have had a lookat millers site but don't really fancy paying close to $700 for one.

benn looking at MAF's from other car's such as vauxhall's omega, volvo 850 etc & i've also seen the one from a hyundai (sp?) mentioned a few time's but can't find a part number for it (anybody got one?).

now if i can find one that fit's & will flow the air correctly the stumbling block will be the chip to run it all.

so what i want to know is there any where (apart from miller) that i can get a chip for the ecu to run it? & how much it would cost?

or am i looking at a session on a rolling road? & if so any idea how much that would cost to do??

any advise is more than welcome folks so let's have your thought's & input.

[hongkongfuey]

Ive got an m30 am on mine, and dmcl on here did the chip for it, give him a shout

[CHR1S1990]

IMO, I wouldnt bother with a MAF, you could probably ditch it alltogether and go alphaN or MAP sensor via standalone for similar price. Megasquirt for example, would cost you about £300 and can do both

[ShepsEvo3]

The AFM is not restrictive untill you start climbing over 200bhp. I've doen many AFM deletes to TPS, so map them Alpha N style. But this can be done by MAP instead of MAF and get rid of the flwo sensors completely.

However, it isn't a cheap thing. I use Unichip to do the conversions and has been very successful with M20, M30 and S14 engines.

It maybe possible to find a MAF which will fit nicely and have the EPROM "fuel/load" tables rescaled to work the new MAF. I'll have a look into it. Would be ALOT cheaper than anything else.

Paul.

[steve_k]

The AFM is not restrictive untill you start climbing over 200bhp. I've doen many AFM deletes to TPS, so map them Alpha N style. But this can be done by MAP instead of MAF and get rid of the flwo sensors completely.

However, it isn't a cheap thing. I use Unichip to do the conversions and has been very successful with M20, M30 and S14 engines.

It maybe possible to find a MAF which will fit nicely and have the EPROM "fuel/load" tables rescaled to work the new MAF. I'll have a look into it. Would be ALOT cheaper than anything else.

Paul.

cheers for that paul let me know how you get on please bud

hongkongfuey, going to have a look on dmcl's website in a bit & see what they can do.

cheers for the reply's so far folk's keep them coming lol.

[steve_k]

Right then been having a look through a few threads on here about MAF conversions & in goosieganders 2.8 stroker thread the is a mention of a hyundai (sp?) MAF that fit'd the bill & the only one i can find anywhere online is for a MAF unit for a hyundai that also fit's a bmw.

now what i would like to know is does anybody have the partnumber for the MAF mentioned in that thread?

just want to check that they are the same unit.

also going to get in touch with dmcl via wmmotorsport to see if he can do a chip for the MAF along with bigger injectors, fingers crossed he can help

[hongkongfuey]

As said dmcl did a chip for mine, although not maf, mine has m30 afm and injectors, im in portsmouth, if u want to try mine?

[steve_k]

As said dmcl did a chip for mine, although not maf, mine has m30 afm and injectors, im in portsmouth, if u want to try mine?

I'm up on the flat east coast (lincolnshire) but if i get down your why sometime in the summer i'll give you a shout.

thanks for the offer

[steve_k]

BBTTT anyone know the part number?

[fowler]

This Kind of setup can be done using reprogrammed motronic but the chap who has all the info don't trade any more...
A kit is in the proces of being built up but all part are top secret lol ,
As sheps said the AFM only become restrictive over 200bhp as all cars that have been converted have been N/A Tuned M20 2.7 or 2.8 conversions HTH

[steve_k]

Fowler, i'm looking at going down the 2.8L route any way thats why i was asking lol.

any idea when this "kit" will be on sale?? & also how much?? (same price as the miller?? or less??)

do tell me more please

[steve_k]

So is anyone going to help?? surely someone knows the part number for the MAF unit to use in the conversion & there must be someone outthere (on here??) who is ablre to write a chip that can run/control it all??

if so then why won't they post up??
getting a little f***ed off with the fact that when ever a question like the OP is asked it goes quiet!!!!!!!

so come on surely some one know's the answer??

sorry to get wound up but i'm getting fed up of trawling the net & going down deadends or getting pointed towards miller's MAF & WAR chip so there must be a cheaper way to do it!!!!

rant over,

[fowler]

Steve i cannot give you part number only inform you when the kit is ready as its some one elses hard work. STEVE from my personal experienece a 2.7 is a far better conversion than a 2.8 as the 2.8 i have sen have not made good power compared with a good 2.7 build but all specs were diffrent.
A well built 2.7 with reasonably high CR on maf is a good 230Hp and same torque figure this will be a good all round car.

[basketweave]

Been looking into this aswell. I ordered a miller setup up but didn't arrive, got a refund but none too happy. Ant from A-tech doesn't do them anymore (i am in the industry aswell so I know how difficult customers can be) so I am back to the old barn door setup for now. Got a few chips coming from a member on here so I will see how they go. I have almost finished building my 2.8 so I want a good tune for it. I am fitting a a/f ratio gauge so I don't cook my new motor.

PM if you want a particular part number....

[fowler]

Ant will be doing them soon according to the horses mouth just needs some time so be patient

[steve_k]

Ant will be doing them soon according to the horses mouth just needs some time so be patient

Good good just got to wait for a price now

[basketweave]

Great, I am in. I am keen to use the factory airbox, so I will need to source an adapter.

A mate here in Sydney who is a member on here has one of Ant's chips, and loves it. (for a standard AFM though)

[fowler]

@ basket weave for a temp measure you could fit a chip to yours until ant has time to develop the kit a little further i am sure it will come out from what i know and have seen the MAF certainly works well on a M20b25, B27 and B28 not seenone on a 2.9 stroker yet.

[fowler]

Soory to add another idea have you guys not thought of going standalone running Alpha N style setup ????

[goosiegander]

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=174097

For referance if anyone wants to revisit the info already posted,

I have been asked for the make/part no of my MAF but to be honest I haven't a clue and just haven't gotten round to having a good look at it so apologies for not coming back with this info.

Another free bump in testiment to the quality of Ant's skill and workmanship, the moordoor like many other cars still proudly flys the A-Tech banner for all to see.

Agree with Ben's point- 2.8's and making power, the most straightforward combination for assembling An m20b28 involves machining only the oil seal spacer on the crank leaving a lower compression donk which was the first thought for me with a supercharger.

If i had my time again it'd be 135 rods and higher compression pistons to suit but thats now a seperate engine build as there is absolutly no point in pulling my engine to bits.

My 2p

[steve_k]

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=174097

For referance if anyone wants to revisit the info already posted,

I have been asked for the make/part no of my MAF but to be honest I haven't a clue and just haven't gotten round to having a good look at it so apologies for not coming back with this info.

Another free bump in testiment to the quality of Ant's skill and workmanship, the moordoor like many other cars still proudly flys the A-Tech banner for all to see.

Agree with Ben's point- 2.8's and making power, the most straightforward combination for assembling An m20b28 involves machining only the oil seal spacer on the crank leaving a lower compression donk which was the first thought for me with a
supercharger.

If i had my time again it'd be 135 rods and higher compression pistons to suit but thats now a seperate engine build as there is absolutly no point in pulling my engine to bits.

My 2p

It's your 2.8L build thread that got me thinking of the MAF conversion & if get chance I'll be going down the 2.8L route myself.

[fowler]

Goosie there are no numbers on your maff they have been suitably removed because of prying eyes fella if you need to replace speak to ant
to all other parties not thought about my other post of standalone

[Speedtouch]

I can supply a chip with a program similar to Miller's, that works with the same MAF they use (which I gather is a 1L3F-12B579-AB MAF, which is an OEM 2001-2004 Ford Mustang Cobra item).

However, you would need to source your own MAF.

[goosiegander]

Goosie there are no numbers on your maff they have been suitably removed because of prying eyes fella if you need to replace speak to ant
to all other parties not thought about my other post of standalone

That does stir a vague memory now you mention it dude! Indeed a lot of time went into making this viable

[basketweave]

In my 2.8 build I have decked the block .5 (or just under .5) mm to get the pistons back up to the factory height using the 130mm rods and b25 pistons. My head has been machined a few times, so I have run the thicker gasket (2.05mm). So my 2.8 is going to have some nice compression.

[DmcL]

ah, that was you on facebook..

the miller stuff is overpriced tbh, i had planned on releasing a much cheaper MAF conversion for the M20 but so far there has always been atleast one small niggling thing im not happy with on the setup or some minor gremlins in the tuning side of things which seems the norm even on some of the miller stuff depending on the tune they supply and the mods done to the individual engine its going on. the stuff i have been messing with is based around a bosch MAF tho, started off with the volvo 850 MAF but i would max it out and have issues with the car cutting out on moderate to full throttle sometimes, i suspect thats because the MAF is 0-5v output and the ECU doesnt want to see over about 4.7v, if it does it thinks theres a problem and cuts out.

i removed the 850 MAF sensor from the standard housing and put it in a suitable but larger bosch MAF housing (80mm housing) from a random MAF i pillaged at a scrapyard with a dead sensor and the cutting out was near nonexistant but it did seem to create a lean spot once a bit of heat soak started happening in the engine bay from sitting at lights or similar and then trying to move off from a stop in the low revs. i havent quite figured out all the necessary IAT related maps to try and correct this in the ECU as of yet, havent had much time to spend on it and its hard to keep motivated sometimes.

M30 AFM is the quickest/easiest way to free up the intake tract, doesnt suffer the same MAF gremlins and works more generally on M20's whereas MAF would probably need to be tuned on all but very similar engines to what the original tune was devised on.

good shoult on the miller ford MAF part number, always wondered what they used but never could find out. must try and grab one of these sensors and have a play with it.. maybe work out easier to work with on the tuning front than the bosch stuff i have been using.

pity ant closed up shop, doesnt seem like theres really anyone else out there that can do much with the standard ECU's on the tuning front bar anyone selling chips apart from myself and im in ireland, anyone offering jobs in a garage in england?

[Speedtouch]

Strange, because the standard AFM just supplies a varying 0-5V signal to the ECU. Can that issue not be sorted with a simple resistor or diode (giving a small voltage drop) in line with the MAF output?

[DmcL]

yea in theory it should but my thinking is why limit the output of a MAF that is too small.. the 80mm bosch housing (obtained from soem diesel, dont know off the top of my head) only ever has the ECU cutting out once in a blue moon compared the the normal 70mm housing the volvo MAF uses. less the lean spot issue i would have been happy with that and then looked about capping the upper limit of voltage output down to about 4.7v.

dont think the standard AFM's ever actually hit 5v whereas these bosch MAF sensors can do.

[Speedtouch]

Another option would be to wire a 4.7V - 5.1V Zener diode in reverse-bias across the output of the MAF to keep it to around 4.7V max.

[DmcL]

yea theres a few ways to limit output to around 4.7v, i need to break out a multimeter and check the max output for the normal M20/M30 AFM to confirm it tho. i do know that in the AFM maps the ECU never reads the very last cell of the 1x8 maps, at full chat it only ever sees the second to last cell in the 1x8's.

[Speedtouch]

That'll be the German sense of humour!

[richy187]

I can supply a chip with a program similar to Miller's, that works with the same MAF they use (which I gather is a 1L3F-12B579-AB MAF, which is an OEM 2001-2004 Ford Mustang Cobra item).

However, you would need to source your own MAF.

Could you supply a chip for th early 073 type ECU?

[Speedtouch]

Not one that operates with a MAF. Try e-mailing Ant for one (he doesn't often read PMs).

[steve_k]

@dmcl yeah that was me on FB lol.

right then gents after a bit of digging & searching I,ve got a feeling that the MAF on goosies car might be a Bosch/Volvo MAF as found on the 850, S70, V70, XC70, I could be wrong though,

dmcl what do you reckon?

[Ant]

Too big Steve, need a smaller ID tube

you can move the tube size up/down to get the output range in the correct sense... ie as close to the AFM as poss, no zener required although a cunning plan Maurice

I've seen an M20 use the 5V on the 1x8 maps BTW, but that was far from OEM internals and as DMCL correctly stated, that area is mostly "unused" however it does have a purpose

Duplicating the Miller setup is not ideal IMHO, they have some transient issues with their setup/maps , of course those could be ironed out with more mapping, its a "best fit" and sensibly setup as such so as to offer minimal chance of catastrophic failure...... sh!t happens

Good to see the MAF conversion Thirst is still raging

About 15 years back we fitted an Astra 16V MAF to an E30 on stock motronic, idled like crap but actually pretty close to OEM on the road, the Astras went AFM then MAF on the same ECU and the maps were identical on the Vaux ECU, cant remember the year but late in Mk2 production.