Four to five stud conversion

[Martinaston]

I'm in the process of changing my driveshafts and bearings, and while looking at the RealOEM website i've noticed that the wheel bearing for the E36 is the same size.
So the rear hub off the E36 could be swapped to change it to a five stud pattern rather than changing the whole trailing arm but the only part i'm not clear on is if the E36 driveshaft's stub axle is the same length and has the same number of splines

Does anyone have one or a picture ?

Any help appreciated

[MONSPORT42]

Seem to remember reading a thread that the Compact rear running gear fitted our cars.

[jmc330i]

Why not just use an E30 M3 hub?

Same wheel bearing, driveshaft etc as any other E30.

[buster]

the e30 m3 hub has a bigger bearing in it so it wont fit.

[jmc330i]

You sure?

Looking at the ETK it shows the same part number for all E30 rear bearings.
I know the E30 M3 has a different front bearing, but the rear bearing has the same part number and size right through the E30 range, even most E36s as Martin was saying.

[buster]

I got muddled up there i thought it was the back.So its the front ones, i new there was that issue but i didnt realise the rears were ok,i thought they were bigger front and back.

Why not then take out the rear bearing hub and re drill it for 5 stud ?
Infact could do it on the front also.

[jmc330i]

No need to redrill the rear hubs when BM have done the work for you.

I guess you could redrill the fronts, its not something Ive looked into and TBH, Ive never been a fan of re drilling stuff, it always looks very bodged

I know the front M3 hubs wont fit, but Im only guessing that rears will by what the ETK says - I will be looking into it more when I find some M3 front struts and brakes for mine and I start the 5stud conversion.

[buster]

i want 5 stud also.I wouldn't care but i could of had the struts off the car i got the engine from but i didnt know they would fit until glenn fitted them to his 350.

I know what you mean about the bmw m3 ones but try and find some.
I work in a machine shop so re drilling them wouldn't be a problem as i could do it properly on a machine.It would have 4 and 5 stud pattern therefore if i drilled the disks the same i could fit both wheels !!!

the front e36 complete strut is a good idea as it solves the need for brake upgrade also.

[oze30]

hey buster..

What would the damage be on the redill. Also.. would there be any strength issues with less material on the brake discs?

[Jhonno]

hey buster..

What would the damage be on the redill. Also.. would there be any strength issues with less material on the brake discs?

no probs.. they do it all the time with Vauxhalls to fit V6 brakes

[Martinaston]

My original idea was just to fit an E36 rear hub without changing anything else (apart from the disc) as it would be easier to get hold of an E36 hub on it's own rather than an E36 Compact rear suspension setup or an M3, but i'm not sure the hub will fit the E30 drivshaft
No need to drill anything if you just pull the hub off a breaker.

[JazzMan]

I think the Z3 shares rear subframe components with the E30 as well.

[jmc330i]

My original idea was just to fit an E36 rear hub without changing anything else (apart from the disc)

Why do you want to use the E36 hub?

The E30 M3 hub will fit the E30 driveshaft and the only thing you would need to change is the disc - or redrill the 4 stud disc.

[buster]

James,ive just thought of a potential snag using the e36 m3 front leg.
Is the abs gubbins still there ? and is it useable.I really dont want to ditch it.

[jmc330i]

Good point.

I know of one guy in the US who has kept the ABS when he used the E36 M3 front legs. He spliced the E36 ABS sensor into the E30 wiring.
The E36 sensor is longer than the E30 sensor, so there is no way of making the E30 sensor fit the E36 legs.

[johnono]

My original idea was just to fit an E36 rear hub without changing anything else (apart from the disc)

Why do you want to use the E36 hub?

The E30 M3 hub will fit the E30 driveshaft and the only thing you would need to change is the disc - or redrill the 4 stud disc.

so how dificult can it be to change hubs?

[stappin]

Question if E30 M3 front hub use a bigger bearing why not fit a smaller bearing and pack it out with a collar or spacer type affair til it fits?

[Martinaston]

The original post was only refering to the rear
stappin
not a good idea as the wheel has the potential to fall off

jmc330i
I'm not changing to 5 stud, but while i've got it in pieces i was just looking to see what can be changed if i choose to uprate the brakes at some point and figured that the e36 hub's would be ten a penny at the breakers rather that forking out for new M3 gear or trying to track one down from a breakers.

johnono
the hub is easy enough to remove with a slide hammer but i've not even attempted to put it back together, i took it to a guy with a ten ton press and let him put the new bearing and flange back in (at a cost).
It can be done but is so easy to damage the bearing i didn't want to chance it.

[stappin]

The original post was only refering to the rear
stappin
not a good idea as the wheel has the potential to fall off

jmc330i
I'm not changing to 5 stud, but while i've got it in pieces i was just looking to see what can be changed if i choose to uprate the brakes at some point and figured that the e36 hub's would be ten a penny at the breakers rather that forking out for new M3 gear or trying to track one down from a breakers.

johnono
the hub is easy enough to remove with a slide hammer but i've not even attempted to put it back together, i took it to a guy with a ten ton press and let him put the new bearing and flange back in (at a cost).
It can be done but is so easy to damage the bearing i didn't want to chance it.

Why would the wheel fall off if you used a machined collar round a smaller bearing to make the fit it should be fine?

[pacerpete]

Is e30 M3 suspension that hard to find or are you guys bored and painfully tight ?
I sold the last set i had to Karan for Ԛ£650 that included complete rear wishbones with good brakes, recent handbrake cables and abs sensors and complete front struts with good M3 brakes abs sensors and front and rear antirollbars. Can someone please prove me wrong and show that it can be done considerably cheaper with very little aggro with scrapyard bits and baling twine ?.

[Martinaston]

Hhhhmmmmm
Let me think..... Ԛ£650 for a load of stuff thats already on the car, or a tenner from the scrapyard for just an E36 hub flange

Guess i must be painfully tight.

stappin
i'm only refering to the rear here but from what i can see of it the bearing slots into the trailing arm and is stopped by a 2 or 3mm lip to stop it falling out the back.
So after a few tight corners the wheel would move in from it's centerline as the bearing slid through the hole, or worse the whole hub could just fall off, taking the driveshaft with it.
Not exact i know but i'd rather not try it.

[apdiogo]

Hi Guys,

I have done this conversion on my e30 touring. There are many botched ways of doing it. I went the route of using OEM componets to ensure everything is right.

Basically in the rear you want to use the E30 M3 drive flange, these run about Ԛ£70 or so. When replacing this item more often than not the wheel bearing splits, so replace that it the standard E30 rear wheel bearing.

You want to use E30 M3 rear discs and calipers. I recomend using discs from zimmerman, OE manufacturer and cheap from GSF or Euro. The rear caliper for the M3 was also used on the E32 7 series, I bought from a breakers for Ԛ£20/set.

Other issues with braking will be that even if you have come from an E30 with rear discs this caliper will provide too much rear brake bias, so be carefull. I have exchanged the Master Depression unit/servo with one from the M3, not cheap. Then I used a 25mm master cylinder unit, common upgrade for E30 M3 racecars, contact C3, they have them. Makes for great barkes.

As for the front, I have bought new strut housings from BMW about Ԛ£170 each, moseley motorsport has used ones, you will also need the M3 calipers or for not too much money more you can put in Hi-spec calipers or similar aftermarket. I have heard of people using E36 legs with knuckle and control arm, but I am lead to believe that gives you a strange streeing geometry. Input anyone??

As far as the wheels, I am using E36 radial 32 OEM rims with 15 MM spacers. I recommend H&R with longer bolts or FK ones that allow yo to bolt the spacer in place, then use regular wheel nuts. Both these units are high quality, fit right and do not impose a massive wheight gain.

Hope my experience helps you.
Paulo

[buster]

Pete,
bored and painfully tight im afriad.

[Martinaston]

After all this wonderful advice i'm still none the wiser as to weather an E36 hub flange will fit an E30 drive shaft

Anyone ?




apdiogo
did you get my e-mail ?

[pacerpete]

I thought you had it sorted for a tenner ?

[Martinaston]

Thats the intention but everyone seems more interested in buying bits that say M3 on the box

[apdiogo]

In answer to your original question I doubt it, since the wheel bearings are a different diameter.

I did see this guy use an adapter plate set-up, looks nice and would also take care of the spacing issue in order to use e36 wheels. Seem custom made, but not sure.

http://www.msportster.co.uk/detail.asp?cat=6&offset=12

Good luck

[Martinaston]

apdiogo
the wheel bearing is the same size, thats why i asked the question in the first place

At the risk of sounding boring. Did you get the E-mail ?

[stappin]

stappin
i'm only refering to the rear here but from what i can see of it the bearing slots into the trailing arm and is stopped by a 2 or 3mm lip to stop it falling out the back.
So after a few tight corners the wheel would move in from it's centerline as the bearing slid through the hole, or worse the whole hub could just fall off, taking the driveshaft with it.
Not exact i know but i'd rather not try it.

I'm refering to the front where everyone is saying that the M3 hub bearing is bigger than the standard e30. So my solution is an engineering one depending on if the inner or out diameter is bigger (which no one has stated yet). An inner or outer tight fitting collar would not move as the bearing is doing all the moving and the collar would be fixed in place.

Does anyone know in which way the M3 bearing is bigger i.e does anyone have the dimensions? Is it inner circumfrence or outer?

As you can see from the below image a sleeve/collar could fit internally or externally depending on what was required and would be held in place by the rear shroud and front nut.

[jonb]

Is e30 M3 suspension that hard to find or are you guys bored and painfully tight ?
I sold the last set i had to Karan for Ԛ£650 that included complete rear wishbones with good brakes, recent handbrake cables and abs sensors and complete front struts with good M3 brakes abs sensors and front and rear antirollbars. Can someone please prove me wrong and show that it can be done considerably cheaper with very little aggro with scrapyard bits and baling twine ?.

wise words from pete.

as he said the going rate for a full m3 setup(struts, springs, brakes etc) is around the Ԛ£600 + mark. weather it be from a tight cunt like me or a breaker or a private seller. pissing around with parts from word of mouth is a headache. if stuff like this could be done on a whim then everyone would be doing it.

i think pennypinching is the best word to use here.

[Martinaston]

if your all that flush then how come you don't drive new M5's

Penny pinching ? No

more like common sense

[apdiogo]

Doh, sorry, bearing maybe same but remember that the drive flange is the other half of this, depth and Outer Diameter maybe different?

Uncharted for me that sorry!

Anyone checkout those adapter plates on the Marlin Sporster posted by JazzMan. Look quite slick.

No email from you.

[jmc330i]

jmc330i
I'm not changing to 5 stud, but while i've got it in pieces i was just looking to see what can be changed if i choose to uprate the brakes at some point and figured that the e36 hub's would be ten a penny at the breakers rather that forking out for new M3 gear or trying to track one down from a breakers.

Ahh, I thought you were changing to 5 stud which is why I said about M3 stuff.

Well, like you said, the E36 bearings are the same size so from that point of view it may fit.
If youve got yours in bits at the moment, you could get hold of an E36 hub and compare the two??

Is e30 M3 suspension that hard to find or are you guys bored and painfully tight ?
I sold the last set i had to Karan for Ԛ£650 that included complete rear wishbones with good brakes, recent handbrake cables and abs sensors and complete front struts with good M3 brakes abs sensors and front and rear antirollbars. Can someone please prove me wrong and show that it can be done considerably cheaper with very little aggro with scrapyard bits and baling twine ?.

wise words from pete.

as he said the going rate for a full m3 setup(struts, springs, brakes etc) is around the Ԛ£600 + mark. weather it be from a tight cunt like me or a breaker or a private seller. pissing around with parts from word of mouth is a headache. if stuff like this could be done on a whim then everyone would be doing it.

i think pennypinching is the best word to use here.

Well to some of us Ԛ£600 for second hand stuff is a lot of money. You guys might say its "pennypinching" but I dont see the point in spending money for the hell of it, so if there is a cheaper option then why not take it?

Yes I will be buying the M3 front set up at some point, but I dont need all of the rear stuff - I have trailing arms and good brakes on mine already, the handbrake cables are new(ish) and my ABS sensors work.

So, with 2 new 5 stud hubs and a redrill of my existing rear discs I should have a rear 5 stud conversion reasonably cheap - obviously assuming the hubs will swap with no problems, which I will be trying sometime soon.

[Royalratch]

I have to say guys, I thought a 5-Stud hub conversion (which I want to do for no other reason than to have a wider range of wheels) was just swapping over hubs from an M3 or E36.

But it seems that the struts and maybe more also need changing? Can anyone very quickly bulletpoint what's needed?
I'm with martinston - it's not a job that warrants big dough, unlike engine or interiors etc.

[Royalratch]

You're loving the way I revived a 2 year old thread right?

Half the guys on this thread are probably dead by now...