318i touring fuel pump fix..?!

[Jungian64]

Is the tank pump in a 90' touring exclusive? e.g will other ages/models fit & if so which ones?

Also, where's the cheapest place to get one or does anyone know someone on here I could try with some chance of success?

Cheers.

[Grrrmachine]

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... #Fuel_Pump

[Jungian64]

Thanks.

I was meaning more like different models e.g 320/325 etc..

Also without taking the pump out, is there any way of telling if I have a 55 or 62l tank?!

[Brianmoooore]

Thanks.

I was meaning more like different models e.g 320/325 etc..

Also without taking the pump out, is there any way of telling if I have a 55 or 62l tank?!

Read the wiki! It's all there.
You have a touring. The 62l tank was fitted to all the top E30 models.

[Jungian64]

..eating a nice piece of humble pie right now...just scrolled back up & read the touring bit!

So moving on - best ( cheapest..) place to purchase..or should I just place a wanted on here?

[Jungian64]

..also did I read correctly in that you have to solder the new connection back on..any other alternatives?

Is this what Iam looking for:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 97.c0.m619

[mrLEE30]

no soldering required if you buy the whole unit, just unscrew, pop the new on one in and re-fix.

5 min job and can be done with the tools in your boot tool box.

[Brianmoooore]

..also did I read correctly in that you have to solder the new connection back on..any other alternatives?

Is this what Iam looking for:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 97.c0.m619

This might or might not have come from a 1991 318i, but if it did, isn't wasn't an E30 318i!

[Jungian64]

Cheers guys..every days a school day eh!

[Jungian64]

..also this car is a 1990, I know Iam asking for crystal ball stuff here but there is no sound coming from the pump at all ( though it did whir & spurt into life after it initially conked out, with a thump on the tank..) so I was wondering if it could be the relay? anyway of checking, in kinda laymans not ampmeter way or does it point to pump u/s ?!

[Brianmoooore]

The pump only runs when the engine is turning, so the pump should not run with just the ignition turned on.
Find yourself a 12 volt bulb attached to a couple of wires, and cut the plug off. Something like an E30 indicator repeater lamp holder or a sidelamp bulb and holder from a headlamp is ideal.
Pull the two pin plug off of the fuel pump, push the wires from the bulb into the buckets of the socket, and crank the engine over on the key. The bulb should light.
If it does, push the plug back onto the pump and crank the engine again. If you can't hear the pump running, then it's almost certainly duff. A good smack on the top of the pump with something like a large spanner might bring it back to temporary life.

[Jungian64]

Again, thank you.

[Jungian64]

Reading the wiki article on removal & looking at the pump, if I undo the 4 sender unit bolts, does not the pump just fall into the tank?!

[Brianmoooore]

Reading the wiki article on removal & looking at the pump, if I undo the 4 sender unit bolts, does not the pump just fall into the tank?!

No, the pump is mounted on a frame rigidly attached to the circular bit that's left behind after the sender is lifted out.
If there's fuel in the tank, have a container handy to drop the sender into, as it will leak a steady stream of fuel.

[Jungian64]

Ah.. OK.

Do 320/325 tourers pumps fit?

[Brianmoooore]

Yes, they are a direct fit. The pump from the smaller tank can also be used complete, as long as you put a cap on the second pipe.

[Jungian64]

Thanks.

[Jungian64]

..back again..just replaced old fuel pump with 'working' unit & still no go!

Iam now wondering if its the pump relay & if so, where is it located & are there any other fuses to check that in turn power the relay?

Having done a quick google on this area it seems that the 'is it this is it that' scenario can go on for some time & bottom line, I need this car going now!

Help/guidnace/mugs of horlicks all greatly appreciated.

[Grrrmachine]

Get access to the pump again, unplug its power connector, and wire up a 12V 5W bulb to the two pins. Crank the engine, and see if the bulb glows.

If it does glow, then your fuel pump is likely at fault. However, the fuel pump might be working, but your injectors are not. Listen carefully to the fuel pump when cranking to make sure; better yet, pull off a fuel hose in the engine bay and pop it into a coke bottle, to prove that fuel is or is not reaching the engine.

If the bulb doesn't glow, you need to ascertain why. Start by checking the fuse (11) and make sure the fuse is 7.5A. If it's a bigger fuse, there's a fault that someone else has tried to cover up.

If the fuse is ok, pull a spark plug, with HT lead attached, and ground it on the rocker cover. Crank the engine, and watch for spark.

If there's no spark, the fault lies in the main ECU circuit, and usually starts with the Crank Position Sender and its associated wiring.

If there is spark, then your issue is with the fuel circuit; either the Fuel Pump relay, the DME relay or the wiring in between. Whatever you do, don't keep throwing new parts at it in the hope it'll work. Testing and fault finding are better than trial and error.

[Jungian64]

I unplugged the pipe from the pump & turned her over, nothing coming out & this was with a 'working replacement' pump & no initial whirr from the pump when ignition is turned on.

Admittedly I havnt tested for a spark at the plug & will but somthing tells me there will be a spark..

Which leads me full cirlce ( after testing of course) to relays...exscuse ignorance but what is the DME relay & where do I find it? also am I right in thinking the fuel pump relay is under the cover next to the main fuse board under the bonnet?

Thanks for the fault finding sequence, very helpful.

[Grrrmachine]

Follow the steps in order first. Don't go looking for the DME relay if you haven't done the light bulb or spark plug test.

The cover next to the fuse box can hold up to three relays; the Fuel Pump relay, the Lambda heat relay (if fitted) and the DME relay. The DME relay is turned on by the ECU and provides power to the injectors and ICV. If your ICV buzzes as soon as you turn the ignition on, then the DME should be alright.

[Brianmoooore]

I unplugged the pipe from the pump & turned her over, nothing coming out & this was with a 'working replacement' pump

My next step would be to check fuse 11 is OK, then to unplug the fuel pump relay (usually orange) under the bulkhead wiring cover, next to the fusebox, and to link together pins 30 and 87 of its socket with a short piece of wire.
This should make the fuel pump run, without switching the ignition on or anything else.
Do this, and report back .

[Jungian64]

Ok thanks guys.

Grrmachine - could you provide a definition for the 3 letter acronyms please ( Iam a beginner to BMW's)

Brian - will do. ..and so if I short the relay & the pump runs, does this prove my relays duff & if it doesnt, that my newly purchased pump is not what it said it was?!

[Grrrmachine]

ICV (Idle Control Valve)

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Intake#ICV

DME (Digital Motor Electronics)

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Motronic

ECU (Engine Control Unit)

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/ECU

[Jungian64]

Excellent, thank you.

[Brianmoooore]

Brian - will do. ..and so if I short the relay & the pump runs, does this prove my relays duff & if it doesnt, that my newly purchased pump is not what it said it was?!

If the pump runs, it will prove that the wiring to the pump is OK (with no hidden immobiliser) and your replacement pump is probably OK. It will prove nothing else.

[Jungian64]

Ok.
If it doesnt run - dodgy wiring/ 'hidden immobilser'? this wouldnt be connected in anyway to the central locking ? probably a dumb question but the previous owner did give me a new central locking unit relay to 'plug in'...

[Jungian64]

Well tested pump as per instructions re bulb & no light. Didnt have a flexible plug socket with me & my standard straight one would'nt fit ( is there a special bmw way?) so couldnt test the spark. Nos 11 fuse ok. Didnt short the relay, forgot that bit..

I had, before getting advice, ordered a new fuel pump relay anyway & collected it this morning. Drove out to Dartmoor, 25miles away where the car resides, to do as guided by your good selves. Went to check on the relays & found they are different!
The black is the new one, the orange, the original - now before I tear the shop of a strip, does this new one have a role in my 1990 318? if not what car is it for ( I gave my reg to the shop as well..)

[Grrrmachine]

Testing for spark is a critical part of diagnosing your problem. If your CPS has failed, then neither your fuel pump nor your spark plugs will run:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... ion_Sensor

Then we'll spend all of our time chasing phantom fuel pump issues when the real problem is elsewhere, as you've already discovered by changing the fuel pump once already.

As for the relays; never seen that new one before. But if you had bridged the relay pins (as suggested) then it would be a moot point by now anyway.

[Jungian64]

Grrmachine - Iam on a learning curve & listening..there is history from the previous owner & a mechanic which steered me to the fuel pump initially, before I'd even registered on here, so I live & learn!

Willnz - ah! ..and your echoing what another has told me to do..

[Jungian64]

Received & understood.

..and yes I NEED to reduce any type of spending spree!

BTW nos 11 fuse is ok.

I do appreciate all advice & the time given to reply.

[Brianmoooore]

Not entirely sure, but I don't think the orange relay is the correct fuel pump relay either!
That looks like an ordinary orange relay, the same as the ones in the fusebox, although it will still work as a pump relay.
A fuel pump relay (a safety critical component) should have a couple of mouldings on the outside of the case that engage with the white plastic prongs extending from the sides of the relay socket, to prevent any possibility of it working loose.
As will (who's E30 electrical knowledge I consider to be at least the equal of mine) says, test not buy!

[Jungian64]

It has these Brian..