My 320ise S62.

[s1oww]

If you don't mind me asking, what did you guys pay for your engines?

[davethegoat]

The ad doesn't say anything about year, mileage or service history, but this is what mine was advertised for (though I had a bit of a haggle). Mine came with clutch (which'll be replaced anyway) flywheel (which I'll possibly look into replacing) and gearbox though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bmw-E39-M5-S6 ... 256b118517

[s1oww]

Yeah that's my mates engine. He's had loads of time wasters on it.
I was just wondering what you all paid as I've been offered another m5 cheap and may break it.

[turk]

whole cars pop up now and again for 3k ish. damage usually, you can buy complete cars undamaged for 4k upwards.

[s1oww]

I was just wondering on the resale of the motor alone. Not to worry.

As for brake servo, it can go under the bonnet, cheaper than a pedal box. My m60 has it under the bonnet, but my s62 will probably go behind the glove box.

I don't have manifolds for a lhd car, but they can't be hard to modify.

[davethegoat]

As I've already said, the more I looked at the matrix pipes poking a mile out of the bulkhead, the less I liked them! When I test fitted the engine the other week, the engine took a bit of jiggling to avoid wrecking the longer of the two pipes.



So, I decided to route the heater pipes inside the car, so they exit somewhere nearer the left hand side of the bulkhead. If this allows the engine to rock back enough to fit/remove the gearbox without lifting the motor off the mounts, it'll be a huge bonus, (I'm pretty sure it won't!) but either way, it'll give better access to the hose fittings and the pipes won't get smashed to bits when I fit the engine.
I removed and cut down the longest of the two matrix pipes with the hope of putting a right angled hose on it, but there wasn't enough room to fit without the bend getting crimped. More room needed, so out wit the grinder!



A bit of sheet and a few bends and welds later, I had more room for the pipe bends. While I was there, I cut a disk, and welded that into the no longer required servo apeture.



I'll probably grind the welds back a little more and maybe even use a bit of filler, but here it is after a quick prime.



Just got to sort some hoses now!

While the heater cover plate was off, I decided that the sound proofing on it should come off. My advice to anyone doing this, is don't! There wasn't 10mm square which wasn't glued on!
One of those jobs that you're committed to after you start, then 10 minutes later wish you hadn't!
Here's how it looks stripped. I've not decided whether to cut off any unwanted studs and give it a coat of paint, or fabricate a new (uncluttered) centre section for it...



More to follow... obviously!

Cheers. Dave.

[turk]

looking good mate. Do u do all the welding yourself?

While you are around the engine can you let me know the depth of the sump from where it meets the block to its lowest point? Need to see if an x5 sump will work.

[davethegoat]

Yep, I do it all myself. I hadn't done any welding for around 15 years before I started this, so still remembering little bits and pieces now and again. I had a bit of a practice on stainless with a cheap tig first (which I've not welded with before). It was a bit like this to start with!

I'll have a measure up of the sump tomorrow if I get a chance.

[s1oww]

Good idea, I'll be doing something like that.
My mate popped a few heater pipes in the stock location due to heat and rubbing.

You're a bloody good welder, amazing job.

[davethegoat]

That's good to hear! (though not for your mate! ) As I was cutting into the bulkhead, I started thinking that I was making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill I had some sections of E30 and M5 hose which looked like they might do the job, but the run of the shorter of the pipes was just that bit too straight.

Thanks mate! There are a lot of better welders than I'll ever be out there though!
That was the first bit of thin steel I've welded since (just about) the bow and arrow was a secret weapon... I'm hoping it'll get better with a bit more practice.

Cheers! Dave.

[davethegoat]

I'd assume that the feed pipe to the heater matrix is the one from the water pump here? (number 13) Can someone confirm please?
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E39/S ... ter_hoses/

Cheers.

[turk]

13 feeds and 16 returns.

[Jonsku]

Looking great, going to be ready by the summer?


Regarding the X5 adaptor plate, how are you going to support the PS pump as it used to attach to the engine mount ..


What comes to "pre '00 S62 engines", the piston rings were the reason that they are often overlooked. The rings were updated in technical facelift (along with couple other things), to reduce oil consumption.

New ring set from BMW is roughly 800€, whereas new piston set from e.g. CP is roughly 1200€ (including rings and taps, of course).

[davethegoat]

13 feeds and 16 returns.

Thanks mate.

The deepest part of the sump measures around 157mm (+ or - a few mm's) from the block (not including the sump plug).

Thanks Jonsku! A fine compliment coming from you.
I hope it will be ready for the summer, but you never quite know with these things eh!
Some good info about the rings there. CP pistons are very good from what I've read. I remember rebuilding a bike engine of mine years ago when a cam lobe failed. The plan at the start was for drop in cams, and finished with a full race motor... These straightforward rebuilds can get out of hand so easily! Hopefully it'll stay in one piece!

I've not touched the car today, but these master cylinder elbows turned up in the post today which will allow me to fit remote reservoirs. They're VW Beetle parts.

[turk]

there is a e32 7 series oem part that is remote and has 3 outputs, 2x brake and 1x clutch which is quite tidy. Ill grab u a pic when I get a chance.

"The deepest part of the sump measures around 157mm (+ or - a few mm's) from the block (not including the sump plug)"

/\ This is good news for me the x5 sump is 189 so should squeeze in there

[Jonsku]

The plan at the start was for drop in cams, and finished with a full race motor... These straightforward rebuilds can get out of hand so easily! Hopefully it'll stay in one piece!

Haha, you never know what happens when you start to "tune just a little bit"


Btw, has anyone managed to install V8 engine with 300mm.de + OEM V8 mounts in "position 3" and without spacers between mount & subframe .. ?

I've 3-5mm spacer and "position 2.5" in the cabrio, and I don't understand how someone can use "position 3" without spacers (or then there's something I don't "see").. Comments welcome!

[turk]

/\ I too am curious about this.

[davethegoat]

So is position 1 with the mounts in the forward "engine arm" mount hole, and position 2 in the rear hole? S what's position 3? and 2.5 come to that!! (The E39 mounts I have at the moment have zero offset if that's the difference?)

I'm hoping that with 55mm mounts I'll be able to run without spacers, though I've not test fitted the gearbox/checked alignment yet. I might well modify the front of the transmission tunnel anyway to ease exhaust fitment and maybe be able to remove the 'box with the engine in situ, so a bit more modding to get it aligned if needs be might not be the end of the world.

Jonsku, regarding the "X5 adaptor plate", were you taking about the oil feed/return housing? If so, mine is a cut down stock M5 mount.

Do you think 30mm (ish) less sump clearance might be a problem Turk? I might make a sturdyish sump guard/brace for mine I think.

[turk]

Sump guard is defo the way to go mate. Especially for me!

[Jonsku]

So is position 1 with the mounts in the forward "engine arm" mount hole, and position 2 in the rear hole? S what's position 3? and 2.5 come to that!! (The E39 mounts I have at the moment have zero offset if that's the difference?)

The "position 1-2-3" thing is coming all the way from e30.de M30 swap mounts.

Position 2 means M60 "more forward" placement, whereas Position 3 means the rear placement.

[davethegoat]

Thanks Jonsku. I was thinking of seeing how much work's involved in fitting mine in position 3 when my engine mounts turn up. What stops it being straightforward?

I've not done much more since my last update as I've been to Chamonix doing one of my very favorite things. Snowboarding. Drove into Switzerland on the last day to go heli-boarding. The heli part was mega , but it hadn't snowed there for 10 days. The snow down 'till nearly half way was wind raped. Further down it was tracked out and icy, so generally a bit cr@p!

Anyway, back on topic, I made these today:


Then welded them on the front crossmember here:


My welder decided to have a bit of a wire feed fit, and I had a bit of brain fade for some reason, so the welding's not the best I've ever done!

I'm not sure whether the mounting points need additional bracing underneath them... Has anyone had any expierience (or heard) of them failing?

Cheers.

[Jonsku]

Thanks Jonsku. I was thinking of seeing how much work's involved in fitting mine in position 3 when my engine mounts turn up. What stops it being straightforward?

You'll have issues with heater pipes, oil pan will be hitting steering rack etc..

BUT, when you do it give us couple of comments what really had to be changed and by how much

Has anyone had any expierience (or heard) of them failing?

There's quite a lot discussion on those at s14.net. They have reinforced the whole thing (e.g. Ireland Engineering has example pictures on their website).

It might be a good idea to reinforce the stabilizer support points at the same time.. I did that along with the subframe reinforcements as I've Powerflex bushes and the original support points were bending quite a lot...

[davethegoat]

Hopefully my heater pipes won't be an issue as I'm relocating their exit position... unless my bulkhead mod gets in the way.
I'll see if I get time to bolt the crossmember to the engine tomorrow to get an idea of steering rack/sump clearance.

I just had a look at the Ireland Engineering site. I'll have to pay a visit to my metal stockholder. I'd happily pay $27 for those if they were in the UK!

I'll check out the stabiliser supports too.

Thanks Jonsku!

[davethegoat]

I hung the crossmember from the "engine arms" today. You were right Jonsku, the front of the rack doesn't clear the sump. There is perhaps a chance that if the rack mounting points were elongated so that the rack could sit back a little, it might work in position 3 (just), but then there would more than likely be problems with fitting the steering pipes.

Position 2 for me!

I made some brace plates today. I'll strengthen the stabiliser mounts tomorrow, then the crossmember will be a coat of paint away from being finished.


It'll be good to actually finish something! I need to do a second test fit of the engine to figure out where my brake lines, heater hoses ect need to exit the bulkhead, where the engine loom needs to go through the bulkhead, how much room there is for brake fluid reservoirs, whether to modify the gearbox tunnel/floorpan to free up exhaust design etc etc.

Cheers. Dave.

[Jonsku]

Damn, I wonder how this guy got the engine that far back (Position 3?)





Btw, have you lowered the LHS steering rack mount already? It gives you bit more room to drop the engine even more as I guess the S62 intake "manifold" is quite high

[davethegoat]

That does look a long way back! Maybe it has a dry sump kit? (Position 5 or 6?!! )

I've not done anything particularly groundbraking in the last few days, just finished off the crossmember (I modified the top rack mounts a while back ):


Put a back on the (shortened) glovebox:




Started on some brake pipes. I managed to use the standard front brakepipes which I bent and cut to fit into a "T" piece, as my new master cylinder has just 2 outlets. The pipes run through the grommet where the headlamp remote adjuster pipes used to live. One was handily ready cut for me, and they had no fluid in them, so no great loss!


Also I made up a shim to space the master cylinder away from the servo. I've got around 0.4mm of freeplay with a 2mm shim at the moment, but seeing as this'll be amplified by linkages and wot-not, I might reduce this depending on how the pedal feels when it's all bled up.


That's about it for now! .....

Oh yea, except, I've been wondering for a while whether an S65 exhaust manifold will fit the S62 heads. So, I found a used one at a half decent price and bought it! Obviously I never thought it'd be a straightforward bolt on job (some of the flanges need rotating for a start), but it's not until you offer these things up that you'll truley know!

[Jonsku]

S65... sexy pieces and it'll be very interesting to see how they fit in there

Is it from RHD or LHD (are they different anyways)?

[davethegoat]

From the images I've seen, the manifolds are the same whether left or right hand drive.

If only they bolted straight on!

I had a (very) quick look at how the right hand manifold fitted today. What I found was:
The front two flanges *would* bolt up to the head. The rear two flanges would need to be rotated.
*But* The second header pipe (from the front), comes into contact with the head/cam cover and will not allow the flanges to meet the head by a fair way.
The collector looks as if it would exit somewhere close to where the rear control arm bush is (so a lot of outward angle). I was thinking that the collector could be cut off, and replaced with some bends or a pair of 2 into 1 collectors which could be angled correctly, and also be made to clear the steering shaft (which needs to run directly through the header pipes as they stand), but it looks like the bends of the header pipes are too far rearward to do this without some major fabrication.
I'll take some more pics tomorrow if anyone's interested (camera battery went flat), but it looks like starting from scratch is a better proposition at the moment.

I'll have a proper look tomorrow, and think about whether a custom steering shaft with an outrigger bearing will help, but as it stands, the S65 headers look like a no go.

Anyone want to buy a piece of modern sculpture?!

[glenn]

there's nowhere near enough clearence to get that manifold on.
even if the manifold sat on the head properly, there isn't enough clearence between the head/rocker cover, and the suspension turrets.

[davethegoat]

there's nowhere near enough clearence to get that manifold on.
even if the manifold sat on the head properly, there isn't enough clearence between the head/rocker cover, and the suspension turrets.

Thanks Glen, that's saved me some faffing about!

I wonder if it would be the same deal on an M3?

Cheers. D

[Jonsku]

there's nowhere near enough clearence to get that manifold on.
even if the manifold sat on the head properly, there isn't enough clearence between the head/rocker cover, and the suspension turrets.

Thanks Glen, that's saved me some faffing about!

I wonder if it would be the same deal on an M3?

Cheers. D

M3 is the same - no go.

They are "aimed" too much outwards, sad but true :-/

Good try and idea anyways!

[davethegoat]

Cheers. It was (nearly ) worth a try! It would have been a really good solution if it had worked!

Anyway, moving on...

This arrived in the post today:


It's an E36 model one. Mishimoto claim 30% better cooling over stock rads. I did some core volume calculations a while back (which I can't find right now), and although the E36 rad is smaller than the stock M5, it's a good deal away being 30% smaller, so *should* have enough cooling capacity.

The rad looks just about like it was made for an E30, but the lower mounts need a bit of a makeover. I *probably* could have just about got away with using 2 right hand lower mounts, but they wouldn't have been perfect as 1 of the mounts needs to be offset a touch. So I knocked up a pair of mounting cups. Sorry about the poor picture quality! :


I made them bolt on, so when I run out of driving talent, and end up upside down in a field, I'll be able to unbolt them, along with most of the other bits and bobs I've made.

Test fitted:




My camera had some sort of spaz:


From the front:


I'll know more about how the stock M5 rad hoses fit when I next test fit the engine, but it doesn't look like they'll be a million miles out.

I've got a couple of (slightly dumb) questions which I'd really appreciate some help on.

Is the EGR pipe and valve a straightforward delete, (plug pipe orifices) or is there more to it?

Also, I've had another look at my options with heater hoses... Would running the heater control valve upside down be a bad idea? The only problem I can see (though it could be a significant one) is that unless the coolant is spanky clean, it could get gunked up/jammed?

Cheers. D

[glenn]

I'll know more about how the stock M5 rad hoses fit when I next test fit the engine, but it doesn't look like they'll be a million miles out.



Is the EGR pipe and valve a straightforward delete, (plug pipe orifices) or is there more to it?



Cheers. D

the stock pipes are almost a straight fit.....iirc they just need slightly shortening

egr....just needs blanking off

[davethegoat]

Smart! Cheers Glenn.

It looked like the M5 hose spacing might be a little wider at the rad. Pretty much no bother at all in the great scheme of things though eh!

Don't suppose anyone on here has a CAD design for S62 header flanges? (I'd happily pay money )

[davethegoat]

So, I've done a few more bits and pieces.

I cut the ends off of the EGR pipe. I was pretty sure I had some aluminium bar somewhere close to the right diameter to make a pair of blanking plugs with, but it hid from me so well that when I came across one of the bearing caps that I'd previously removed when fitting one of DanThe's steering shafts, this happened: Pretty much a perfect interfearence fit. After cleaning all the crud from the inside of the pipe, with the help of a little heat and some loctite I pressed it in and centre punched the end. :


I did the same with the other pipe, then got paranoid that the caps would fire from the end of the pipes through my shiney new rad, so I made a couple of blanking discs. Belt and braces!:


Fitted :




Also, I made these (overcomplicated ) brackets:


to stop this rattling around:


The fan can be run either push or pull. Mine will be push, and sit in front of the radiator.

I spent what felt like forever scanning fleabay for heater pipes, and finally found some that looked like like they might route how I wanted them to. It's not perfect to have the pipes below the level of the heater matrix, but I'm pretty sure this is where they'll end up. I had to extend the mod I made to the bulkhead downwards a couple of inches to get a smooth path:


My engine mounts turned up yesterday.
So I dropped the engine in.


The mounts are 55mm, which gives this much (un-measured) clearance:


The mounts have 7mm offset and at the moment, will rotate, which gives the benefit a bit of fine engine position adjustment.

I had a quick look at the rad hoses too. I reckon the best solution will be to cut the hoses and have the rad inlet and outlet modified with 90 degree elbows.
Here's one I cut earlier.


I'll see if I can grab a bit more time on it before the weekend. I'm off back to Chamonix for some more snowboarding on Saturday.