1.1 TO 1.3 Motronic on a 1986 325i

[m_jermyn]

Yeah good idea mate...

Might put a note in the bottom saying if converting a 325e to later motronic the AFM will need swapping too.

[clarko74]

I too have been meaning to do write up of this but haven't found the time yet, and due to me recently becoming a dad for the first time am unlikely to in the near (or distant!) future.

For those of you who are doing the write up, I had a few threads about this so if you search for 'motronic' and posts by me it'll bring up some stuff that might be useful.

I was also working on an easy to read image showing the 1.3 engine bay loom (based on Mike's photo) and all the various connections, I'll see if I can dig it out.

[clarko74]

Here it is:



It's just a tidied up version of Mike's photo in this thread: >>clicky<<.

Here's the key from the same thread:

Jamese30 Cheers mate

# 1 ECU
# 2 Battery +
# 3 Oxygen sensor
# 4 coil -
# 5 Coil +
# 6 Ground
# 7 Starter
# 8 ICV or TPS
# 9 ICV or TPS
#10 Starter
#11 alternator
#12 alternator
#13 oil level sensor
#14 C191
#15 Speed or cyl ID sensor
#16 Speed or cyl ID sensor
#17 Diagnostic plug
#18 Oil pressure switch
#19 C101
#20 AFM

I have the original Illustrator file of this image so if any amendments are needed let me know and I'll sort it out.

HTH

[clarko74]

The above needs checking really as number 1 isn't quite right, the ecu plug is obviously the big one on the end!

[Kedge]

#1 in that pic is the C104 connector.

[m_jermyn]

Thanks Clarko.... I will send you a PM tonight (my time) mate...

Might need some amendments on that image...


When I did the conversion I checked everything off against the diagram to be absolute sure on what the connectors were using the wire colours..

[m_jermyn]

Thanks Clarko.... I will send you a PM tonight (my time) mate...

Might need some amendments on that image...


When I did the conversion I checked everything off against the diagram to be absolute sure on what the connectors were using the wire colours..

[Grrrmachine]

Thread Revival:

I'm writing the Wiki article for this, and need some input from the experienced users.

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... tronic_1.3

Kedge has been wicked so far, thanks . But I need help from others who are experienced with all the conversions; from Jet, M1.0 and M1.1.

So take a look at the existing page please, and if you can add anything to it then type it all in this thread.

Cheers

[bss325i]

On the E30 Bosch Motronic 1.3 came out in sept '87, not '88.

[Grrrmachine]

Useful stuff Barry Anyone else?

[Kedge]

My understanding is that the only difference from M1.1 to M1.3 is the ECU. M1.0 is the one with the twin flywheel sensors, taken from here;

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=210912

[Grrrmachine]

I've heard that from a few places, but I've equally heard of M1.1 being a more involved swap. Some US sites have even mentioned M1.0a, which is unheard of over here. Hence the need for definitive answers.

Call in the cavalry!

[Kedge]

The reading up i did on M1.3 was always mentioning M1.1 in the same breath so i tend to believe it.

This is a direct qoute from a tech doc i have which backs this up;

Motronic 1.1 and 1.3 are an evolution of the early Motronic EMS fitted to previous BMW vehicles during the early to middle 1980's. Motronic 1.1 was first fitted to some 6 cylinder models in 1987 and was superseded in 1988 by Motronic 1.3. The main differences between 1.1 and 1.3 concern the SD feature. 1987 versions of M1.1 contained some small differences to the 1988
version. The Motronic EMS is a fully integrated system that controls primary ignition, fuelling and idle control from within the same ECU. Although only 6 cylinder engines were equipped with M1.1, when M1.3 was introduced, both 4 and 6 cylinder engines were equipped with this later version.

[clipper]

The reading up i did on M1.3 was always mentioning M1.1 in the same breath so i tend to believe it.

This is a direct qoute from a tech doc i have which backs this up;

Motronic 1.1 and 1.3 are an evolution of the early Motronic EMS fitted to previous BMW vehicles during the early to middle
1980's. Motronic 1.1 was first fitted to some 6 cylinder models in 1987 and was superseded in 1988 by Motronic 1.3. The main
differences between 1.1 and 1.3 concern the SD feature. 1987 versions of M1.1 contained some small differences to the 1988
version. The Motronic EMS is a fully integrated system that controls primary ignition, fuelling and idle control from within the
same ECU. Although only 6 cylinder engines were equipped with M1.1, when M1.3 was introduced, both 4 and 6 cylinder
engines were equipped with this later version.

I have read this too and it seems correct. It also ties up with the Pelican Parts write up of ECU numbers for each system.

The problem with the Pelican Parts list is that it ignores EU part numbers, for example they say that M1.0 was only with ECU 081 but we know that there there was a M1.0 on an 073 ECU...

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techart ... Repair.htm

Maybe it would be a good idea to do (or find) a UK / EU version of the Pelican chart

[Grrrmachine]

I've written off the Pelican Parts articles as worthless; too many times they've conflicted with all the stuff that's said on here.

I'll move the current info on swapping from M1.1 to M1.0, but we still need a clear list of parts and differences from Jetronic to M1.0, then M1.0 to M1.1.

[gooner1]

Motronic 1.1 was first fitted to some 6 cylinder models in 1987 and was superseded in 1988 by Motronic 1.3.

Not sure about the above. My Cab's an 86 build 6 cylinder and has the 1.1.

Also as Barry states. On the E30 Bosch Motronic 1.3 came out in sept '87, not '88.

[Kedge]

From my experiance of going from what we now know as M1.0 to M1.3 i changed the following parts;

Engine and injector loom.
ECU.
Oil Level Sendor.
CPS sensor and mount.
Toothed crank pulley.

Can't remember whether i've got the CID lead fitted yet, had a mix n match set of aftermarket leads on the engine and i can't remember whether they had the extra lead or whether i've put some OEM ones back on.

Then there was 2 or 3 wires jigged around with by the C104, would need to recheck which these were though.

I've now got another M1.3 kit (as i've listed above) in the garage i salvaged at the weekend (minus the crank pulley) so i can compare that to the 323i and see what more is needed to convert from Jetronic.

[Kedge]

Motronic 1.1 was first fitted to some 6 cylinder models in 1987 and was superseded in 1988 by Motronic 1.3.

Not sure about the above. My Cab's an 86 build 6 cylinder and has the 1.1.

Also as Barry states. On the E30 Bosch Motronic 1.3 came out in sept '87, not '88.

Rob, your cab has M1.0, same as my engine did. Anything Motronic with flywheel sensors is M1.0.

[gooner1]

In that case Dave, i'll delete my post.

[Kedge]

I thought the same for ages

You managed to do your swap yet?

[gooner1]

Strangely enough, I have a free W\E so hope to do it then.

[Grrrmachine]

So from M1.1 to M1.3 you just need the ECU.

From 1.0 you also need the engine loom, the injector loom and injectors, the CID, the CPS and mount, the crank pulley and the oil level sensor. You also need to rewire the C104 into the C101, and sort out the extra wire on the starter motor.

From Jetronic you need all the above as well as the Distributor cap and rotor, cam shaft adapter and dust cover, and the AFM.

Now we just need instructions on HOW to do each of those things. And isn't there something odd about the oil pump on jetronic engines too, cos it's driven from the dizzy?

[Kedge]

Rob, which weekend? I could potentially lend a hand depending on when. On nights this weekend but could get down Sunday afternoon.

From everything i've read M1.1 to M1.3 is just the ECU. Don't remember doing anything special regarding the starter, just connected straight up. Will get a pic Friday.

[clipper]

I thought the same for ages

Me too and it was reeding the Pelican article that set me right, they state clearly that in a 325i the only ECU is the 081, we know that that also could be the 073, anything else must be 1.1 or 1.3.

[gooner1]

Rob, which weekend? I could potentially lend a hand depending on when. On nights this weekend but could get down Sunday afternoon.

From everything i've read M1.1 to M1.3 is just the ECU. Don't remember doing anything special regarding the starter, just connected straight up. Will get a pic Friday.

This week end Dave. On Call permitting.

Though with my propensity to muller anything slightly
electric related, there will no doubt be plenty of other weekends.
Appreciate the offer btw.

[Speedtouch]

mattyb did a conversion a while back, that detailed the various wiring changes, problems, etc.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 78&start=0

[Grrrmachine]

There's lots of threads on here, but nothing conclusive. Still, the write-up is taking shape in a simplified form. I'd appreciate it if the experienced converters could read it and confirm/correct it as it grows:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... tronic_1.3

[Kedge]

Had a quick skim over, you don't need to change injectors going from M1.0 to M1.3 and one of the main differences between ECUs on M1.1 and M1.3 is the amount of fault codes they store.

[Grrrmachine]

Yeah, the ECU thing is covered on the M1.3 page itself; I want the conversion to be about the PHYSICAL differences, so that it doesn't get too overwhelming.

I'll move the injector stuff into the Jetronic bit though.

[gooner1]

From Motronic 1.0

The main difference from M1.0 to M1.3 is the Crank Position sensor. All systems before M1.1 used two sensors mounted into the gearbox, while M1.3 uses one sensor at the front of the engine. You'll be fitting this new sensor, as well as a toothed wheel that sends a pulse through the CPS to the ECU. You'll also be fitting a Cylinder Identification sensor, which tells the ECU which spark plug is firing.
Procedure
Crank Position Sender

The most involved aspect is fitting the toothed crank wheel. This involves removing the radiator and the fan before you can access the existing pulley. Once you've got those off, undo the bolts holding the existing pulley, pull it off and fit the toothed pulley in its place.

While you've got all those cooling parts removed, you'll find it easier to mount the CPS bracket.
Loom


Damn, that's going to hold me back.
Thought it was only the Pulley in font of the Crank wheel that I would need to change.

[daimlerman]

And isn't there something odd about the oil pump on jetronic engines too, cos it's driven from the dizzy?

ALL M20 engines have the oil pump driven by the jack shaft that is,in turn,driven by the cambelt.Earlier engines also had the distributor driven in the same way.Later engines had a blanking plate fitted over the distributor drive.

So when converting an earlier engine,such as an ex 525e to run the later Motronic 1.3,the distributor is removed and replaced by the blanking plate and a 'HT distributor' is mounted on the front of the camshaft.

The oil pump remains driven by the jack shaft,which is driven by the cam belt.....

[Grrrmachine]

gooner, cheers, I haven't finished that bit yet ;)

daimlerman, there were pics in another thread where the dizzy was removed and something else was poking out of the hole with two hoses to it. But I'll add your comment into the article.

[Kedge]

Thought it was only the Pulley in font of the Crank wheel that I would need to change.

That is all you need to change, you just need to remove the viscous as that overlaps the pulley. I reckon you can probably remove the pulley with the rad in place.

I checked the wiring on my starter today (have a pic if required), there are only two wires from the engine loom and the main power lead straight from the battery, don't know what this third wire is i keep seeing mentioned, will check the tourings tomorrow to compare.

[gooner1]

Dave, just to confirm, it's only part 2 that needs changing
on my set up, not part 1:?:



http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=20

[Grrrmachine]

Kedge, can I leave this one with you now, for any changes/updates?