Worlds longest Resto, my C2 2.7 19/3/18 Vent guage action

[DanThe]

The bits have got into the other cylinders as they have been blown into the inlet manifold via the valveless No 3 inlet port.

[E30BeemerLad]

Absolutely gutted for you mate, nothing else I can say really

[Demlotcrew]

Si there is no doubt there was contact, you can tell because all of the valves have a neat dark circle in the centre and i bet the diameter difference between the OD of the valve and the OD of the dark circles = the widest part of the valve relief on the piston.



The seats are not to blame here!

Andrew

[Alex]

Bastard, what a shame, i bet your gutted after all that time and effort.

Life likes to throw us challenges i guess.

no doubt you will have it sorted in no time

[Andyboy]

I bloody knew it would be a dropped valve. What a cuntage. That head might repair with TIG and some machining, but I'm not sure I'd trust it 100%. See if the lightly marked pistons will clean up - inspect them for cracks including the underside because they're tough old things. If they aren't cracked and the ring lands aren't pinching the rings, they should clean up and go again - dare I ask how much replacement slugs are?

Arev you going to repair it in situ or pull the donk?

[Tay]

fook thats a mess, sorry to see all that mate,

this is exactly why i never get seats and guides replaced............... you can never guarentee that the job will be any good. and theres aways the chance that it'll do this.

looks like the seat under the exhaust dropped, broke up then proceeded to distroy the inlet valve knocking that seat out when it snapped?

i know you think i'm a bodger, but to be honest, just clean any bers off of the pistons and run them again, it won't make any slight difference if any at all, bottom end is definitly salvagable.

[Demlotcrew]

Just to add, I bet if you popped the big end caps off you will see witness marks on the top cap with the valve hitting the piston.

[glenn]

i'm truly sorry to hear this, you must be feeling pretty low at the mo'.

pick yourself back up, dust yourself down, and money permitting, get it rebuilt.

what a thread , talk about 'warts 'an all'

respect

[Demlotcrew]

There is no way the seats were at fault! You can clearly see there is no damage or wear on the valve to seat contact patch, forget the seats FFS, the inlet valve head broke off as it was being battered by the piston, the stem on the back of the inlet valve hit the inlet seat which shattered it and the pieces of the inlet seat pinged out the exhaust seat, and the rest is history.

If the seats on CYL 3 were to blame, why were all of the INLET clearances out after Simon got the engine running?!

Andrew

[DanThe]

If it was the seat dropping out there would be some big dents around the seat area as it would have to be broken up by the piston hitting the valve and squashing the seat against the head, chances of not breaking the valve in the process = 0.0%

The noise must have been the inlet valves getting bummed by the pistons

[beardymat]

I had seats replaced on a head on a 2.7 I built and after a short period of running it sounded noisy so checked clearances and they were all out despite being done at the rebuild. I figured that the seats settled slightly as everything warmed up and they were hammered home by the valves.

[lyricalnut02]

hard luck mate, crack on and get this sorted.

[darren_mk]

what a thread , talk about 'warts 'an all'

respect

Totally!! - Been thinking this for a week now, It takes a strong person to post all your woes , not many would do it. Total respect.

You'll get there simon.
chin up!

[Andyboy]

Si there is no doubt there was contact, you can tell because all of the valves have a neat dark circle in the centre and i bet the diameter difference between the OD of the valve and the OD of the dark circles = the widest part of the valve relief on the piston.



The seats are not to blame here!

Andrew

Agreed. There was valve to piston contact, one valve said 'f uck this', broke off and aided by the piston, chopped up the valve seat.

[beardymat]

cant see the damned pictures any more but im not convinced.

[Andyboy]

i know you think i'm a bodger




, but to be honest, just clean any bers off of the pistons and run them again, it won't make any slight difference if any at all, bottom end is definitly salvagable.

Get the kettle on, and I'll swap the cutting disc for a grinding disc.

[Dezzy]

i know you think i'm a bodger




, but to be honest, just clean any bers off of the pistons and run them again, it won't make any slight difference if any at all, bottom end is definitly salvagable.

Get the kettle on, and I'll swap the cutting disc for a grinding disc.

Am as glad to see this advise as you Andy!

[Tay]

thats on hell of a seat mark on the piston!!!!

[Demlotcrew]

thats on hell of a seat mark on the piston!!!!

Are you saying that a seat is able to circumnavigate a valve head intact?

Where are the seat marks on the exhaust valve face then?

Forget it, the seat is not to blame!

The photo again.



Andrew

[Tay]

o what i'm saying is inlet broke, and then knocked out the seat then samshed the other...... both are out

[Demlotcrew]

looks like the seat under the exhaust dropped, broke up then proceeded to distroy the inlet valve knocking that seat out when it snapped.

Im confused.

[Tay]

one or tuther dropped but it may have been the inlet first???

[DanThe]

Do you even know how an engine works?

[Simon13]

Its all about maning up and being honset. Could you honestly keep this all a secret on this thread?! No post for 10 months whilst i sorted this mess out?! No we've got to go the warts and all. No point lying it wouldn't be very interesting otherwise!

i'll have to sort out this photobucket lark.

The main thing now is to sift through the wreckage and sort what can be re used and what can't. Will we be conclusive 100% of what really went wrong?! people will go for either i expect but its in the past. Its maybe an oppourtunity to make it an even better engine!

The touring strangely enough is due a cambelt!! its done 28k now so it wouldn't hurt to do it early with genuine belt.

I think the engine needs to be pulled out bolted to the engine stand and stripped. I'll put the bronzit back togeher, clear the garage again and get re organised for rebuild no.2

Whats to be done with the bronzit. Shall i sell it on or try and stow it away somewhere for next time. Its an ideal 325 to do the job as said before.

Theres a B3 to run about in to ease the pain for a bit!

[Jhonno]

New big ends required also dude.. Gutted for you.

[beardymat]

Why do all the other valves appear to be seating correctly so arent bent and why do the pistons not show contact? for the engine to sound like a machine gun it needs some pretty good contact, same goes for a valve breaking.

Im betting if simon did a test on the remaining chambers in the head, those without seat damage from the bits of no3`s seat would still retain fluid showing straight valves.

[DanThe]

Get the turd put back together and sold I say, the weather will be here once you get round to sorting this engine

[bss325i]

As i said on the phone to Si, when he does the belt on the touring he needs to pull the cam sprocket off and see how many holes are in the end of the cam (which is the same schrick for those who didn't know).

If there is only one then why the f*ck is there two in the cam used on this engine and why was there a blind plug in the "correct" hole which needed to be pushed in or out to fit the cam sprocket?!

Be interesting to do a combustion chamber leak test with the head on the cylinders that still have valves intact to see if the valve to seat seal is any good. If the valves have hit then you would think that the seal would be poor.

Interesting that the compression test was good with the cam in the wrong position.

EIDT: Matt beat me to it with the leak check.

[bss325i]

Get the turd put back together and sold I say, the weather will be here once you get round to sorting this engine

That's what i said.

[Tay]

in answer to your question yes i do but i feel it i tried to explain it to you in even layman terms, you'd get confused even more than you are now! especially as both the seats are no longer in the head, and one valve is bust?

seat moves pushes valve into piston valve breaks, gets nipped under ex valve smashes ex seat bits knock out inlet seat complete???

considering someone told me i was wrong about the valve hiting with the cam 180 out when 1 and 6 lobes are exactly 180 oposite so turning 180 would do nothing appart from timing,

clearances way off? if they were loose then it would indicate the seat was pushing the valve or too tight showing the seat had bedded in more???

just a bit of a shame that alot of you are hobbie mechanics..........

[Andyboy]

seat moves pushes valve into piston valve breaks, gets nipped under ex valve smashes ex seat bits knock out inlet seat complete???

Sounds like an engine you built then! Bodgit&Scarper, Limited. (very).

[Tay]

100's of engines built all have never been a problem again and customers are happy and return?

[DanThe]

The difference is you call replacing a headgasket a full engine rebuild!

Hobby mechanic needs more intelligence than a grease monkey BTW!

[Andyboy]

100's of engines bodged all have never been a problem again but customers can never find me coz oi did a runner to zummerset

[Demlotcrew]

just a bit of a shame that alot of you are hobbie mechanics..........

Shame you're only a simple car mechanic.

[youtube][/youtube]

Andrew