hi
as per title really.
i have confermed that there is no spark at the plugs.
i have shorted the fuel pump relay and the pump made a noise.
not 100% sure if the car has an imobiliser or not.
any ideas or test i could try would be appriciated.
thanks carl
316 not starting
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Brianmoooore
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Use a 12 volt bulb connected between the coil + terminal and earth to confirm the presence of power with the ignition on and when cranking.
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Grrrmachine
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Multimeter's not good enough - it'll detect tiny current which might be feeding back through the system, but not the sort of amps needed to fire a spark plug... or glow a bulb! Hence the bulb test, to eliminate false positives.
also, does the ICV buzz with ignition on?
also, does the ICV buzz with ignition on?
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
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Grrrmachine
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Next step would be to remove a spark plug (or use a spare), and connect the king lead from the coil directly to the spark plug, bypassing the distributor. If you don't get a spark that way, then you've got a dead coil. If you do get a spark, then either your distributor is broken somehow, or your camshaft isn't spinning... broken belt!
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
just did that actually and didnit get a spark, so i guess its looking like a dodgy coil,
just to check brian said connect the bulb to the positive and earth is that the negative coil terminal or chassis earth or does it not matter??
thanks again really appriciate the help.
carl.
just to check brian said connect the bulb to the positive and earth is that the negative coil terminal or chassis earth or does it not matter??
thanks again really appriciate the help.
carl.
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Grrrmachine
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Best would be battery earth, or the earthing point on the turret next to the coil, but it doesn't really matter.carl21 wrote: just to check brian said connect the bulb to the positive and earth is that the negative coil terminal or chassis earth or does it not matter??
Try a new coil if you can, and report back.
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
just tryed a different coil and still no spark?
and yet iam getting the bulb lit when testing i guess i could of got another dodgy coil.
there is a way to check them in the haynes manual using a multimeter on the ohm setting but i wasnt quiet sure if i was reading the numbers correctly.
so any more ideas???
thanks carl
and yet iam getting the bulb lit when testing i guess i could of got another dodgy coil.
there is a way to check them in the haynes manual using a multimeter on the ohm setting but i wasnt quiet sure if i was reading the numbers correctly.
so any more ideas???
thanks carl
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Brianmoooore
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This was just an initial test to establish that ignition live is getting to the engine loom - nothing whatsoever to do with testing the coil!
Next test: Remove the rear seat cushion and the RH access cap over the fuel pump, and crank the engine. You should easily hear the fuel pump whining as the engine turns. Does it?
Next test: Remove the rear seat cushion and the RH access cap over the fuel pump, and crank the engine. You should easily hear the fuel pump whining as the engine turns. Does it?
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Brianmoooore
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First of all, you said your car was a 316. I'm assuming you mean a 316i, as this is a very different car.
Check fuse 11 is intact.
Beginning to look like a duff crank position sensor.
Disconnect its plug (buried under the inlet manifold - remove the air filter for access) and measure the resistance between the two terminals nearest the lead. Should be about 540 ohms.
Check the lead for damage where it passes behind the water pump pulley.
Check fuse 11 is intact.
Beginning to look like a duff crank position sensor.
Disconnect its plug (buried under the inlet manifold - remove the air filter for access) and measure the resistance between the two terminals nearest the lead. Should be about 540 ohms.
Check the lead for damage where it passes behind the water pump pulley.
hi the car is a 316i (M40)
just checked that sensor,there where three pins in it. i checked the two nearest the lead they where marked 2/3 and got no reading at all.
i checked pins 1/2 and got a reading of 513ohms.
hope that makes sense.
thanks again.
carl
just checked that sensor,there where three pins in it. i checked the two nearest the lead they where marked 2/3 and got no reading at all.
i checked pins 1/2 and got a reading of 513ohms.
hope that makes sense.
thanks again.
carl
hi there,
still cant start the car, getting a bit annoyed
with it to be honest as was planning to sell it at the weekend and i have a feeling the fact it wont start may decrease its value!!
so anymore tests or avenues i can try would really help.
thanks again carl
still cant start the car, getting a bit annoyed
with it to be honest as was planning to sell it at the weekend and i have a feeling the fact it wont start may decrease its value!!so anymore tests or avenues i can try would really help.
thanks again carl
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Grrrmachine
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From the Igntion Wiki:
If you want to test your coil, follow these steps:
Disconnect all cables from the Coil
Using a multimeter, measure the resistance between the two Primary terminals. You should get a reading of 0.5 Ohms.
Now measure the resistance between terminal 15 and the King Post. You should get a reading of 5000 Ohms.
To test it is receiving power, ensure all cables are correctly attached, and then use a bulb to ensure you are getting 12V between earth and terminal 15.
The King Post connects to the distributor via one large HT lead. To test the condition of this lead, measure its resistance. It should read 2000 Ohms
If you want a very quick test, then run a length of wire from the Battery + to the Coil +. Then use pins 11 and 14 of the Diagnostic plug to crank the car engine. This will be bypassing pretty much everything in the cabin, and should make the car start. If it doesn't, you're missing either Spark or Fuel and you need to find out why.
Have a read of these two wiki pages:
http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Ignition
http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Fuel
If you want to test your coil, follow these steps:
Disconnect all cables from the Coil
Using a multimeter, measure the resistance between the two Primary terminals. You should get a reading of 0.5 Ohms.
Now measure the resistance between terminal 15 and the King Post. You should get a reading of 5000 Ohms.
To test it is receiving power, ensure all cables are correctly attached, and then use a bulb to ensure you are getting 12V between earth and terminal 15.
The King Post connects to the distributor via one large HT lead. To test the condition of this lead, measure its resistance. It should read 2000 Ohms
If you want a very quick test, then run a length of wire from the Battery + to the Coil +. Then use pins 11 and 14 of the Diagnostic plug to crank the car engine. This will be bypassing pretty much everything in the cabin, and should make the car start. If it doesn't, you're missing either Spark or Fuel and you need to find out why.
Have a read of these two wiki pages:
http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Ignition
http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Fuel
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
hi.
just used the multimeter to test both of my coils and got a reading of 1.1ohms across the primary terminals and 5940ohms from the king post (both coils gave simmilar readings)
tried running a line to the coil from batt and shorting the terminals 11-14 in dign socket to no avail.
does that last test rule out a rouge immbiliser?
could it be a faulty ECU? and would an identicle SH one just fit in or would it have to be programed??
so once again any other tests i can do??
thanks carl
just used the multimeter to test both of my coils and got a reading of 1.1ohms across the primary terminals and 5940ohms from the king post (both coils gave simmilar readings)
tried running a line to the coil from batt and shorting the terminals 11-14 in dign socket to no avail.
does that last test rule out a rouge immbiliser?
could it be a faulty ECU? and would an identicle SH one just fit in or would it have to be programed??
so once again any other tests i can do??
thanks carl
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Grrrmachine
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When you say "to no avail", what do you mean? No cranking, or no spark?
If you've bypassed everything in the engine bay, and the spark plug is directly connected to the coil, and cranking still doesn't make a spark, then there really isn't very much left to go wrong.
It's now looking likely that the ECU isn't turning everything on, which is why Brian asked you to listen for the fuel pump. If the fuel pump turns on when the car is cranked, then the Crank Position Sensor is telling the ECU to start the car circuits. The ECU then turns on the DME relay, which sends power to the injectors and fuel pump.
A proper test of the fuel pump is to get access to it, take off its connectors and bridge it with the same bulb you used to test the coil. When you crank the engine, the bulb should glow.
You can also test this at the fuel pump relay if you can get the wires into the socket with the relay still fitted, but it's not recommended. If the bulb doesn't glow, then your fuel pump isn't getting power, which means it's either the CPS, the ECU or the wiring in between.
If you've bypassed everything in the engine bay, and the spark plug is directly connected to the coil, and cranking still doesn't make a spark, then there really isn't very much left to go wrong.
It's now looking likely that the ECU isn't turning everything on, which is why Brian asked you to listen for the fuel pump. If the fuel pump turns on when the car is cranked, then the Crank Position Sensor is telling the ECU to start the car circuits. The ECU then turns on the DME relay, which sends power to the injectors and fuel pump.
A proper test of the fuel pump is to get access to it, take off its connectors and bridge it with the same bulb you used to test the coil. When you crank the engine, the bulb should glow.
You can also test this at the fuel pump relay if you can get the wires into the socket with the relay still fitted, but it's not recommended. If the bulb doesn't glow, then your fuel pump isn't getting power, which means it's either the CPS, the ECU or the wiring in between.
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
hi
just tried the fuel pump which is under the back seat with two green and violet wires going to it? i assumed this was correct.
inserted a wire into each connector and onto a bulb and it did not light up when the engine was cranked.
by no avail i ment no spark.
thanks again
carl
just tried the fuel pump which is under the back seat with two green and violet wires going to it? i assumed this was correct.
inserted a wire into each connector and onto a bulb and it did not light up when the engine was cranked.
by no avail i ment no spark.
thanks again
carl
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Brianmoooore
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You've already established that there's no (conventionally connected, at least) immobiliser in the ignition circuits, and I'd be astounded if there was anything wrong with the coil!
The CPS is by far and away the most unreliable component that can give the symptoms you describe, and your measured resistance reading is far enough out to make it suspect.
One last check you can make is to remove the bulkhead wiring cover, and remove the two relays under it on the LH side. Remember which relay goes where!
One will be a five pin relay, and the other four. Use some short pieces of wire to link together pins 30 and 87 (marked on the relay case) of the four pin one's socket (which should start the fuel pump running), and link pin 30 and both 87s on the five pin relay socket.
Crank the car and see if it starts. If not, find yourself a CPS.
The CPS is by far and away the most unreliable component that can give the symptoms you describe, and your measured resistance reading is far enough out to make it suspect.
One last check you can make is to remove the bulkhead wiring cover, and remove the two relays under it on the LH side. Remember which relay goes where!
One will be a five pin relay, and the other four. Use some short pieces of wire to link together pins 30 and 87 (marked on the relay case) of the four pin one's socket (which should start the fuel pump running), and link pin 30 and both 87s on the five pin relay socket.
Crank the car and see if it starts. If not, find yourself a CPS.
hi
just tried a second hand crank sensor and still no spark!??
i also got the ECU from this car which is the same apart from its an automatic so can i put this ecu into mine or is it uncompatale or need reprograming/
also any other things i can try.
thanks carl.
just tried a second hand crank sensor and still no spark!??
i also got the ECU from this car which is the same apart from its an automatic so can i put this ecu into mine or is it uncompatale or need reprograming/
also any other things i can try.
thanks carl.
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Grrrmachine
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Wouldn't damage it, I shouldn't wonder.
To test the wiring, you need to locate the ECU, unplug it, and do the same check you did on the CPS, using pins 67 and 68.
To test the wiring, you need to locate the ECU, unplug it, and do the same check you did on the CPS, using pins 67 and 68.
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
hi
just tested the cps at the ecu plug and got a reading of 502 ohms. at the conector on the end of the sensor itself i got a reading of 513ohms is this difference enough to mean a fault in the wiring inbetween?? ohms are new to me!
thanks alot again
carl.
just tested the cps at the ecu plug and got a reading of 502 ohms. at the conector on the end of the sensor itself i got a reading of 513ohms is this difference enough to mean a fault in the wiring inbetween?? ohms are new to me!
thanks alot again
carl.
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Grrrmachine
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Not enough to make a huge difference, and since the CPS doesn't send an ohm-reading to the ECU, it doesn't matter; it just shows the wiring is fine.
This one's got me stumped; if another ECU doesn't work, I'm out of ideas.
This one's got me stumped; if another ECU doesn't work, I'm out of ideas.
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
well tried the new ECU and it fired up ok, seem to run a bit funny but il look at that later.
so a massive, massive thank you to grrrmachine and brian moore, without all your help i would of been like a blind man looking for a needle in a haystack!!
really appriciate all the help.
cheers carl
so a massive, massive thank you to grrrmachine and brian moore, without all your help i would of been like a blind man looking for a needle in a haystack!!
really appriciate all the help.
cheers carl
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Grrrmachine
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It might be the wrong ECU (didn't you say this was automatic), but also it will need to "learn" its settings, since all the sensors in the vehicle have slightly different values from car to car.
If this is the ECU you'll be using from now on, then fit it, start the car and idle it for 10 minutes, then turn off. Then go out for a blast and drive it like it was stolen; use the whole rev range in all gears. Once you've done that, it should run alright.
Glad you got things sorted in the end!
If this is the ECU you'll be using from now on, then fit it, start the car and idle it for 10 minutes, then turn off. Then go out for a blast and drive it like it was stolen; use the whole rev range in all gears. Once you've done that, it should run alright.
Glad you got things sorted in the end!
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install
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Grrrmachine
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No, it won't be an issue at all.
'89 325i Touring | Touring Resto Thread | In-Dash Screen install