325i no spark or fuel??? not starting??... brianmoore plzzz

[alpine316-325]

okay guys, my 325i coupe on a g reg is playing up.

its running the later motronic setup with the cps at the front

the problem occured a few weeks ago when i was driving, every now and then the car would randomly turn off while driving for a split second and then come back to life.


anyway, driving home yesterday and the car cuts off altogether, now it wont start however it turns over but will not fire.

there is no spark at any of the plugs, neither is there fuel coming to the rail, i've listened to the pump and it doesn;t want to work while cranking the car,


so far i've

changed coil with a known working one, and tried mine on another car so it definetely works.

checked fuel pump relay including the others under the cover on left arch......good

checked all fuses including fuse 11

long black relay in fusebox smelt burnt out, changed it with another our of a running car, to no avail, swapped mine into that car and it ran fine.

changed crank postion sensor with known working one...to no avail

taken apart the round screw connector underneath the inlet manifold, seems to be good with no corrosion

changed ecu, used both a 173 which is whats in the car, and a 380 out of another car.

checked inline fuse from 6 gauge wire from battery live, wired straight across to no avail

run a live to the fuel pump and the pump started buzzing away happily, so thats out of the equation.

the car has no immobiliser fitted at all, it may have done in the past but the previous owner was a good friend who owned it for years and he never had one fitted.

i'm absoloutely baffed as to what to check next.

i'm hoping someoner here has come across a similar problem and can help me get to the bottom of it.

i;ve read through countless threads all with the same symptoms and am only posting here as a last resort after exhausting everything i found in the threads.


any help apprecited.

[zaust]

Blue or white dme relay next to the orange fuel relay
Change it.

[alpine316-325]

hi zaust thanks for the reply, ive changed that relay, its under the black cover on the left turret near the airbox, ive take all 3 relays out, replaced them from a car which drove to me, nothing, ive then taken my 3 relays (including the dme relay obviously) and put them in my mates car and it fired up perfectly.

[Grrrmachine]

You really shouldn't go yanking out parts without testing things first; you might have introduced new faults to a previously working system. Still, too late now, so we'll have to start at the beginning:

1) When you turn on the igntion but DON'T crank the motor, does the ICV buzz?

2) If you connect a single spark plug to the coil and crank the motor, can you get spark?

3) Can you get the fuel pump spinning by bridging pins 30 and 87 of the fuel pump relay?

[kam-325i]

Are you 100% sure there is no immobiliser fitted ?
Even a factory fitted one.

[Speedtouch]

Does it have the OBC (on board computer), as that has a built-in immobiliser.

Also check the wiring under the dash and behind the glovebox, and the engine earth strap.

[Brianmoooore]

Connect a 12 volt bulb between the coil + terminal and earth, and confirm it lights when the ignition is on and when you crank the engine.
Has your used crank position sensor been fitted onto another engine?

[alpine316-325]

the cars a tech 2 sport so its got an obc


okay, so i cant remember hearing the icv buzz it was something i was hearing out for but it doesnt seem to be buzzing

also its got an obc, a friend told me to bridge two of the connectors going into the obc, one of them when bridged made a gonging noise in the car( something to do with temperature readings as they were flashing up on the screen) the other one i bridged didnt seem to have no effect on anything.

could the obc be causing the car to cut out randomly for split seconds before this problem occured??

how can i check if the obc immobiliser has kicked in.

[alpine316-325]

to add ive only run the fuel pump off a direct live, i haven't bridged the pin as grrmachine has stated, if someone could kindly tell me how to do this id appeciate it.

also i am getting no spark whatsoever, the fact both these things have gone wrong together i.e. no fuel or spark leads me to believe its something which has led to both cutting out completely.

[alpine316-325]

hey brian i was hoping youd come along mate, my cps is off another vehicle which was running, i can get another off a mates 325 if needs be.

[Grrrmachine]

If neither the ICV buzzes nor the bulb glows on Brian's test, then you're not getting power through the green wire from the ignition. This green wire runs through the OBC relay box.

If this green wire is broken somewhere, then you won't get Fuel or Spark. But you still need to test for fuel properly.

To do this, find the Fuel Pump relay in the engine bay, take it out, and stick a bit of wire between hole 30 and hole 87. Then turn on the ignition. This should make the fuel pump run immediately.

[alpine316-325]

okay ill run brians test tomorrow and check for a buzzing icv, also all dash lights etc are working and there is no problems with any of the electrics inside of the car.

how do i go about finding this green wire and where is the obc relay box?

sorry for sounding like such a tool but its the first time ive had to dig so deep to sort this type of problem.

[kam-325i]

to add ive only run the fuel pump off a direct live, i haven't bridged the pin as grrmachine has stated, if someone could kindly tell me how to do this id appeciate it.

Take the relay out of it holder, look at the pins on the relay, note the numbers by the pins, and then bridge the connectors in the socket that the pins relate to.

[Grrrmachine]

You can consult the wiring diagrams in the Wiki:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... g_Diagrams

[Speedtouch]

Or check out this thread, with a similar issue:
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... green+wire

[alpine316-325]

okay tomorrow i am going to check over all the things ive learnt here now, also are pins 11 and 14 in the c101 plug? and what do these control when bridged.

[kam-325i]

can you check for 12V+ at pin 27 on the ECU connector.

[alpine316-325]

okay so ive just had a quick read through the thread speedtouch put up, this thread is linked to another thread called ''wont fire without obc loom'', it seems interesting and i seem to have been bridging the wrong wires the whole time, im hoping it is some kind of obc immobiliser problem as its easily fixed by connecting two green wires found behind the glovebox.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=


i'll report back with my findings tomorrow .

[alpine316-325]

thanks kam thats another thing to the list if the obc immobiliser bridge doesnt work.

[kam-325i]

Checking for 12v on Pin 27 on the ecu plug should check the OBC immob circuit.

[alpine316-325]

thanks for that info kam, i'll check for 12v at pin 27 and join the two green wires just to be extra sure, if this isnt the problem then ive eradicated it from the list, if it is then i'll be a happy boy.

[Tay]

Another thing to check is if you have power from the battery to the terminal in the engine bay, from the small gauge cable that runs alongside the main bty cable, this is the one that supplies the fuel and starter relays with power.

I had this the other week, I found there was no power to the larger red feed wire to the relays but once bridged direct from the bty everything hummed and worked! We traced it back to that narrow gauge black wire to the terminal and ended up bridging he pwr from the main lead to that one one the terminal in the bay! Certainly worth a look

[alpine316-325]

hi tay, we checked the wire, i dont know if it could be broken somewhere down the line, it has a battery in boot so the cable could be corroded or damaged anywhere down the length of the car, we did however bridge the wire over the inline fuse to no avail.

its just getting tiring now but i know its definetely something stupid and a small electrical fault i just can't suss it out right now.

[Brianmoooore]

Connect a 12 volt bulb between the coil + terminal and earth, and confirm it lights when the ignition is on and when you crank the engine.

Do nothing until you've done this and reported back!

[carl21]

hi
sorry to hop on the thread but my prob is simmilar i think.
its a 316 m40 engine tho.
i have just tested the coil as advised with a multimeter i didnt get quiet 12v tho but about 8v when engine was cranked.
does the 316 obc have a imobeliser too?
any other suggestions as to how to get the beast going would be great cheers
carl

[Grrrmachine]

hi
sorry to hop on the thread but my prob is simmilar i think.
its a 316 m40 engine tho.

The six-button OBC won't be immobilising anything, and if you're getting SOME volts at the coil when cranked, then the ignition circuit is being turned on. If you're only getting 8V though, battery could be flat, which is why Mr Moore suggests using a lamp rather than a multimeter to test these things.

To be fair to the OP, it might be fair to start your own thread so that things don't get confusing.

[Brianmoooore]

hi
sorry to hop on the thread but my prob is simmilar i think.
its a 316 m40 engine tho.
i have just tested the coil as advised with a multimeter i didnt get quiet 12v tho but about 8v when engine was cranked.
does the 316 obc have a imobeliser too?
any other suggestions as to how to get the beast going would be great cheers
carl

Your results are as they should be, although the 8V suggests your battery may be past its best.
All 13 button OBCs have the immobiliser function, but the 12 volts at the coil proves this is not your problem.
Feel free to start another thread or your car. It gets very confusing for me if there's more than one car on a thread, which may have totally different faults, although the symptoms may be similar.

[alpine316-325]

got to the bottom of it, it was the green wires behind the glove after all, joined these together and it cranked first time!!!1

thanks for all the help from everyone.

[Speedtouch]

Great to hear it dude!

[alpine316-325]

thanks for all the help and especially that link speedtouch!!!!