Worlds longest Resto, my C2 2.7 19/3/18 Vent guage action

[beardymat]

Have you got a good strong battery on there Si? Ive had it before where a battery will spin an engine but not fast enough for it to catch, Usually on something thats been messed with. Put a booster on them and they usually fire up.

If not since its got fuel and a spark then you have to assume it should start or that the two arent happening at the right time, could be time to go back to basics and redo all connections and check ignition leads are in the right places on the cap etc.

You probably dont need telling put chucking fuel into those nice new bores and churning it over wont do them a whole lot of good. Get this sucker running

[DanThe]

Needs Eazy Start innit

[Simon13]

fu*king piece of sh!t. I just don't get it, its timed up. it has spark, it has fuel, it has compression. And it won't bloody go

Dead as a f**king dodo. This has stalled big time.

[Sanchez]

Long shot but immobilizer hasnt been mentioned it there is one.

[Simon13]

theres an alarm but its turned off.

I'm gonna tow the c**t up the road till it starts!

[e30topless]

if it's cranking has fuel and a spark then i would rule an Alarm out...

a few things i would check, which you probably have already

CPS is plugged into right plug on the engine loom (something I always mix up )
Fuel pipes are right way around,
change the DME relay just incase, I have had them fail a few times when disturbing them no doubt you gotta spare,

firing order on the HT leads is right

you using the Bronzit injectors si or a set of refurbed one's ? re-furbed injectors can stick if they have been left standing

this thing will be as tight as a gnats chuff with the new internals so a decent tow up the road might help crank it over at a decent speed !!

have you checked the plugs are they wet ?

[Simon13]

plugs end up soaked. HT leads are right.

fuel pipes right. i've not done the DME because its not faulty in this case. The injectors are refurbed and have sat a while but i got them done in sept/oct i think.

Oil pressure is up the light goes out after about 3 cranks now even after a few days like today. So there is something good!

[E30BeemerLad]

You haven't taped up/covered the inlet or exhaust and forgotten to remove it before fitting?

[Simon13]

No i don't do that

[DanThe]

Got to be a timing problem then??

[E30BeemerLad]

This just seems the same thing as Trev had with his cab, sure that disc in the dizzy is the right way around?

[Karan]

Wow just reading through this awesome stuff Si!

[glenn]

i dont know much about m20's, you say you've got spark, and fuel, is it possible to have the cam 180 degree's out on a m20?

[e30topless]

they can be 180 out but still turn over ok,
looking at the build pics It looks good 1+6 are tdc, valves closed on no1 and everything looks lined up, plugs are wet so fuel should be ok my guess is spark is out

Crank sensor has to be at fault or plugged into the wrong plug ?
there's 2 plugs identical next to each other under the diagnostic plug one is CPS one is the pulse from the Ht lead, definatly worth trying them the other way round

[Speedtouch]

What ECU are you using, and have you verified that it has the correct chip fitted?

[B7]

Si. Does it sound the same as mine when you turn it over? i.e. firing in the wrong order, or it is not firing at all? It does sound timing related. Unburnt fuel, spark but won't run.

Be mindfull though. If it's pumping that much fuel through, the sump will be contaminated. Once it does run, change the oil ASAP. Mine stank of fuel on the dipstick.

[bss325i]

First thing i said was timing, be it ignition or cam but....

Simon has been though all of these things people are suggesting.

Checked and double checked the cam timing, there is a mark on the crank and one the cam and they both line up so the cam timing is right. Tried 2x C2 2.7 ECU's, tried 2x sets of leads and plugs and checked they are the right order. The two plugs for the CPS and pulse generator have been checked and swapped plus all the other things he has mentioned.

So i'm told.

[Simon13]

Thanks Karan,

i've stripped it down twice now on the front to check timing. I've got the photos to prove its timed up right. If it wasn't there would be no compression or certainly not 190PSI average it has. The timing on the crank and cam is 100% the vibration damper was 180 degrees wrong so thats sorted. The rotor is pointing at about 5 o'clock when your looking at the engine like it should. That plastic plate is on right!

I've tried 3 ECU's! the stock 2.5 one my alpina touring one, and the alpina one for this engine. They are all working ECU's.

I've tried the 2 plugs for the crank sensor as i've done this myself before! Trevor i haven't cranked it anywhere near as much as we did on yours! purely for that reason. If it carries on i shall have to change the oil.

I'm thinking there is too much fuel? the plugs end up soaked so what would cause too much fuel?! I know the cam choice won't help but on the touring it literally fired straight up after its rebuild.

If someone wants to come round sunday be my guest i'm not to proud!

[bss325i]

I may have some spare time this weekend, will bell you tomorrow.

[e30topless]

it's a wierd one Si my suggestions aren't aimed at you not knowing, just sometimes things get overlooked
I know you can probably fit an M20 with your eyes shut !! and it seems everything has been covered

does it not fire at all not even a backfire ?

what do you think it is Barry?

[Speedtouch]

Try temporarily disconnecting the fuel inlet or removing the fuel pump relay to burn off any excess fuel in the pots - maybe you've just flooded it?

My Fiat twin cam can sometimes be a b*tch to start - a squirt or two of brake or carb cleaner down the carb intakes soon sorts it.

[gareth]

On the off chance it's simply running very rich and has flooded, try pulling the fuel pump fuse off and cranking. with an assistant on hand to refit the fuel pump fuse while cranking listen for a kick, if it catches, shove the fuse in and let it clear it's throat.

My M30 has done this in the cold before now but i have the luxury of switching to LPG. that doesn't pool like petrol does!

[gareth]

haha, good plan mr speedtouch, beat me to it by seconds!

[Simon13]

On the off chance it's simply running very rich and has flooded, try pulling the fuel pump fuse off and cranking. with an assistant on hand to refit the fuel pump fuse while cranking listen for a kick, if it catches, shove the fuse in and let it clear it's throat.

My M30 has done this in the cold before now but i have the luxury of switching to LPG. that doesn't pool like petrol does!

i've tried that as its worked in the past.

Without trying to sound like a total tosser i know most of the tricks on these and its not working!

[Demlotcrew]

Got spark?

[E30BeemerLad]

Have you tried a can of autostart?

Is the spark a good healthy blue colour? I believe that a spark under compression is totally different to one at atmospheric pressure, so if it's a yellow colour spark when you are testing it on the rocker cover, it may not be sparking once installed.

Just offering suggestions/ try a different coil

[bodger]

[gareth]

Without trying to sound like a total tosser i know most of the tricks on these and its not working!

Haha! I thought so, hence starting back at the really stupid things that could easily be overlooked

[Speedtouch]

Why not rig up a spark plug test rig like leeparkes did, to get some idea of the sparking patternation?

[aze30]

On the off chance it's simply running very rich and has flooded, try pulling the fuel pump fuse off and cranking. with an assistant on hand to refit the fuel pump fuse while cranking listen for a kick, if it catches, shove the fuse in and let it clear it's throat.

My M30 has done this in the cold before now but i have the luxury of switching to LPG. that doesn't pool like petrol does!

i've tried that as its worked in the past.

Without trying to sound like a total tosser i know most of the tricks on these and its not working!

im no mechanic and you will know alot more than me but i had this problem with a cossie, i had fuel spark etc after we fixed the alarm but from so much cranking the plugs were shot even after cleaning it wouldnt start
so i tried a new set of plugs without touching the throttle and boom it fired up after a few turns

[goosiegander]

Probably stupid but is the ECU getting power?

[Speedtouch]

If he's getting sparks then it must be, as without CPS input to the ECU and corresponding ECU output to the ignition coil, there won't be any.

[e30topless]

I reckon the superior/snobby C2 donk is sulking and refuses to co-operate after being wedged into a rotting Bronzit turd

worth checking power in and out of the DME and that the relay is working/doing it's job

[Simon13]

Barry and powelly are coming over later see if we can coax it into life.

[Andyboy]

Could be a few things. Is the carbon plunger contact in the cap okay? TDC pulse generator on the plug lead present, correct and plugged into the right loom connector? Upper and lower loom halves free of corrosion at the screw connector under the manifold? Test for power at the coil.
It could be knackered or not recieving a signal. Set your multi meter to DC 0- 20V scale, switch on the ignition and you should see 12V between the Plus (+ve or 15) terminal of the coil and earth (battery minus). If nothing there, then the coil isn’t getting a signal from the ECU - you can test this at terminal 1 of the ECU (black wire iirc). If you have 12V at the coil plus terminal then the ECU is giving power and it's probably a coil fault. With the ignition on and your multi-meter set to Ohms test between coil plus and minus - you should see 0.5 Ohms. Test between coil plus and the end of the coil where the HT lead plugs in you should be seeing 6000? If not, try another coil.

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