Single or double adjustables

[rix313]

I'm looking at entering some TTRS races next year and am costing up a rebuild for my car.

Seeing as the engine side of things is fairly restricted it free's up some cash for the suspension. Of course there is are the GAZ single adjustable coil overs, I've also been looking at AST single ajustables but they are double the price of the GAZ suspension. Now I'd like to think you're getting a product that is twice as good but is this the case? I know there are some PBMW cars that run AST, does any of have experience with what they're like compared to the GAZ units?

Also up from this AST do a double adjustable kit and this is around another £1k ontop of their single adjustables. So I ask again whether any one has any experience with them or has any advice on whether it's worth spending all that extra money? Seeing as the car is only circa 130bhp I wonder whether double adjustables might be over doing it?

I'm 99.9% sure that the Moton 4 way adjustables which I was quoted £10k for are probably overkill

[Kos]

Demlotcrew has AST's and he rates them very highly

The only down side im aware of is that the Uk importer is not so great with service back up.

The likes of ast intrax nitron penske are a serious step up from the options available from gaz Leda spax

[Black_Potato]

GAZ will make you any combination you want, but it may not be on the default product list.

I'm using 2 way adjustable GAZ with remotes.

[anton89]

Two way adjustables are great but unless you spend big money a change in bump will always have an effect on the rebound, if you spend the same on singles as the gaz doubles you'll end up with more control because you dont requre any telemetry to know what you should be adjusting. to trully set up two or three way adjustables you need data from the car, unfortunatly fetling it wont get you anywhere 9 out of 10 times.

thers a company called nitron who can build you a shock depnding on budget. there excellent systems and they will actualy look at your car befor selling you a shock.

optimising your damping will gain you big times on the circuit, also get yourself a g-g telemetry device and ask your tyre manufacturer for a g-g diagram for the tyre, using these two pieces of data you can optimise your driving style as well as set up.

dont know if this helps

[rix313]

Thanks for your response.

Nitron used to build a kit for the E30 but due to lack of demand they stopped making them and didn't seem interested in making anything bespoke, not that I'd be able to afford it any way to be honest

[Jhonno]

You get what you pay for.. I'd be inclined to spend the extra. Running Intax on my 328i and had them on my S50'd E30 and they are awesome.. Great handling of bumps (or kerbs in your case), but remain flat and composed.

Suspension is an area where the more expensive stuff is more expensive for.good reason. Are you a good enough driver to do them justice though..?

[UweM3]

Two way adjustables are great but unless you spend big money a change in bump will always have an effect on the rebound, if you spend the same on singles as the gaz doubles you'll end up with more control because you dont requre any telemetry to know what you should be adjusting. to trully set up two or three way adjustables you need data from the car, unfortunatly fetling it wont get you anywhere 9 out of 10 times.

thers a company called nitron who can build you a shock depnding on budget. there excellent systems and they will actualy look at your car befor selling you a shock.

optimising your damping will gain you big times on the circuit, also get yourself a g-g telemetry device and ask your tyre manufacturer for a g-g diagram for the tyre, using these two pieces of data you can optimise your driving style as well as set up.

dont know if this helps

+1
super duper adjustable is only as good as YOU adjust it.
Adjust them wrong --> driving wrong.

this is one of these "how long is a piece of string" questions. Better shocks will always result in better laptimes. If you get the settings right.

Don't want to sound harsh or rude, but how high do you think the level is in your race series? I am sure a good driver with worse hardware than others, can still be faster on track as nobody at that level of racing is really maxxing out the hardware.

[staley_turbo]

Ast`s are cool, just looking at a set for my 306. I think there a good value for money shock.

[rix313]

For me it's wanting to get out there and experience what it's like to be on the otherside of the pitwall and have some fun. As a race mechanic, I have a good and knowledge of what adjustments mean and what effects they have. As questioned above and I totaly agree, as a driver, I'm not going to be reaping the benifits of the extra adjustment.

[Black_Potato]

Uwe, thanks for being condesending but the standard is quite high, for instance this guy failed to win many races this year despite the best prepared car and racing pedigree, others have won national series or are just semi retired.

http://www.benwinrow.co.uk/

Others have spent 1000's on custom ohlins and buttons, then days testing and developing with Aurok.


Personally I would get a set of one way adjustables, GAZ, AST, you choose. Spend some months, maybe a season getting the springs & car 95% right and reliable, then if you feel you can get more out of your self or the car with better suspension go for it.

On a side note, 2 way's are not allowed in PBMW.

[rix313]

I've got an LSD, 4pots and M42 so the car isn't very PBMW friendly as is

BTW I spoke to GAZ about 2 ways but the chap I spoke to didn't seem very informed on the matter.

[Black_Potato]

I've got an LSD, 4pots and M42 so the car isn't very PBMW friendly as is

BTW I spoke to GAZ about 2 ways but the chap I spoke to didn't seem very informed on the matter.

Cool.... We will be in the same class next year then.



I'm testing at brands on sat on the unlikely event your in the area.

[CorneringForce]

Hi

In my experience getting the right damping is more important that the choice of damper brand.

Setting this is not easy without datalogging but when it is as close to right as possible (albeit for a given track on a given day etc etc) then the car will carry more corner speed and be better balanced right through the corner.

The more adjustability the damper has then the more you can tailor them to suit the combination of car set-up/driver and track. Again datalogging is the key but also having good damper dyno data to understand the effect of the changes you are making. So often we see a change in rebound making significant changes to the bump - if you have this data to hand at the track the changes you make are much better informed ones.

Everybody has a budget but i would recommend spending some of your damper budget on setting them up rather than all of it on the purchase!

Hope this makes some kind of sense!

Simon

[GeoffBob]

Rich,

I think there's some good advice posted above. I have to agree, in particular, with the posts of Uwe, Anton89, BlackPotato, and CorneringForce.

A set of expensive two-way dampers will only aid you in as much as you are able to set them up properly, in which case you will need to set aside a portion of your budget for telemetry equipment. You will also need to know how to interpret that data in order to decide what adjustments to make. Also, if an adjustment to jounce has an effect upon rebound, as pointed out by Anton89, then you'll need a measure of that effect to hand, as pointed out by CorneringForce, in order to intelligently adjust both settings.

I honestly do think you would be better off starting out with a good quality set of one-way adjustable dampers since they will, by definition, only afford you one variable to fettle with.

Do also look at what other suspension modifications you can make (within your rules) to improve your dynamic suspension geometry. Sometimes a little intelligent work with a TIG welder and some bits of CrMo tubing can gain you as much of an advantage as a set of ultra expensive dampers.

At least that’s how I see it. No offence intended to anyone whose opinion may differ on the matter.

Geoff

[rix313]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I ordered some single adjustable AST's this morning at a price I couldn't say no to, hopefuly picking them up at the end of this week

I'll be looking to get a DL1 data logger at some point next year to start gathering data and getting to grips with the car and setup etc.

[staley_turbo]

Did you email ast and speek to curt? Or ring, Im looking at buying some aswell. Get some pics up when you get them

[rix313]

Called Curtis and had a chat with him about it. I can't wait to collect them

[Black_Potato]

I have some DL1 data traces if and when you record some you can review.

[Demlotcrew]

Called Curtis and had a chat with him about it. I can't wait to collect them

So have you gone for an Off the shelf kit?

[rix313]

He's building me up a kit as used and tested in the PBMW I believe. If I want anything changing I can drop them off with him. It will be an interesting enough change going from my uprated damper and spring set up to this as it is. Once I've got to grips with it I'll look to make improvements and modifications.

[rix313]

Whats the equation for converting N to Lb for the spring stiffness and vise versa?

[Demlotcrew]

You can use the calculator on this page: http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/converter.htm