Best and Worst Exhaust Manifolds

[Grrrmachine]

While making the Wiki page for Exhausts, I came across all sorts of comments about manifolds. Racing Dynamics, Fritz, BTB; they got named and/or shamed by various users over the years.

So I figured it was worth making a list of what Zone users do or don't recommend when it comes to Exhaust manifolds. Remember, these things sell for hundreds of pounds at a time, and while I don't want to slander any one company unnecessarily, the info is valid for people who think 800 quid for a metal squid is money well spent.

Here's the basic table to get you started. Do me proud:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... #Manifolds

[e301988325i]

I think a note should be added that the btb3 is the only one that clears the more modern quick rack conversions which are very popular!

BTB has to be the only new manifold that is worth spending money on.

[Jozi]

Would it be better to give pro's and cons of the different systems and people can make up their own mind. Maybe have price ranges also to give an idea of what's available given a budget. Rather than saying this is either good or bad?

[Grrrmachine]

Would it be better to give pro's and cons of the different systems and people can make up their own mind. Maybe have price ranges also to give an idea of what's available given a budget. Rather than saying this is either good or bad?

I'd love to, as long as people give that info. The table I knocked up is just what I picked up from reading six years of Tech posts; the non-recommended ones basically "give no improvement" or "make things worse".

[adamski80]

Iv had a fritz bitz manifold and btb both been on rolling road. Fritz with no gain over standard and btb needs no explaination.

[HairyScreech]

theres a griffin motorsport one that by all accounts was good.

[Brian28]

While making the Wiki page for Exhausts, I came across all sorts of comments about manifolds. Racing Dynamics, Fritz, BTB; they got named and/or shamed by various users over the years.

So I figured it was worth making a list of what Zone users do or don't recommend when it comes to Exhaust manifolds. Remember, these things sell for hundreds of pounds at a time, and while I don't want to slander any one company unnecessarily,

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... #Manifolds

How about only factual information, like the chap who has had a couple on the rolling road? People will always have comments about manifolds (and everything else!) sometimes based on precious little other than speculation and what was heard fourth hand from fat bloke down the pub. Or at least a bit in the table on the reasons why some are recommended/not recommended, rather than a basic table that gives the impression that "the experts have spoken, and here are the (correct) conclusions". Not knocking it as an idea, just suggesting that information may need to be filtered a bit or, as suggested above, pros and cons of each type as opposed to recommended/not recommended.

[Grrrmachine]

Couldn't agree more Brian, I just need that info. For example, I came across someone quoting FritzBitz declaring "20bhp with this manifold, mate", and then a comment that "I've had this on the rolling road, no gains at all".

Without a dyno chart from either party, there's no "proof" from either side. That's why I'm sticking with the word "recommended' until I get shown "proven 10hp increase over stock".

Iv had a fritz bitz manifold and btb both been on rolling road. Fritz with no gain over standard and btb needs no explaination.

The purpose of this thread is precisely to give that explanation. I know Sweet FA about performance manifolds, and I'm sure there are many other users out there in the same situation.

[hongkongfuey]

Ive been slated every time when ive said hottuning, but it does increase torque midrange and up power, i know its not a great deal, but for less than £200 , you get a good sound and look which is all some want, design is basically a btb copy

Some people dont have £800 to spend on a manifold, as i understand it you would still have to tune the engine to it.

So for less you could have the ht one and a remap from gunni

[adamski80]

Fritz manifold made 158 bhp on rolling road with their full system on standard engine setup. Btb 185 i have graphs somewhere for the none believers

[retroboyo]

Is that 185 with a btb manifold and a fritz exhuast or a standard exhuast system

[E30_Crazy]

theres a griffin motorsport one that by all accounts was good.

I got one of these from a zoner for around £300-£350. Needs a little bending of the center pipes to get the rest of the scorpion system to fit though. That might just be my specific example though, not all. You can make it fit, but then you get a rattling from the heat shield. Can't give any specific info, since I never got it installed until I was already doing an engine swap from a high comp 2.5 to a 2.7.

Anyone else running a griffin motorsport setup? Can't really find much about them on the web.

[adamski80]

Is that 185 with a btb manifold and a fritz exhuast or a standard exhuast system

There is a thread with actual power gains with standard systems
using btb manifold on here somewhere pal.
i think Barry posted it. Mine was with fritz full system tho

[Kedge]

Ive been slated every time when ive said hottuning, but it does increase torque midrange and up power, i know its not a great deal, but for less than £200 , you get a good sound and look which is all some want, design is basically a btb copy

Some people dont have £800 to spend on a manifold, as i understand it you would still have to tune the engine to it.

So for less you could have the ht one and a remap from gunni

Barry's was a BTB2 on a standard engine, may have been a Scorpian exhaust on his car at the time i can't remember. But that is the car the before and after run was done with the BTB manifold showing the big gains.

[Kedge]

I got a gain of 15bhp and over 20lbft with a BTB2 coupled to a sebring centre and scorpion rear.

Scorpion systems are regarded to give little gains over a standard system.

I now have a standard genuine BMW centre and rear and have notices no difference in performance, just a quieter note.

[retroboyo]

BTBs sound impressive, no pun intended.

Thanks

[Grrrmachine]

Right, I've redesigned the table to take into account all the info you guys have provided. Cheers for your input.

[e301988325i]

I'm fairly sure I've seen a magnex manifold, the primaries are far too short compared with all the others, oakey, Dave on here with a tech 1 sport, an alpina 2.7 bottom and throtle bodies has one fitted IIRC.

[Kedge]

I had a full magnex system, manifold and exhaust. Can't comment on how much difference it made as it was already on the touring in my sig pic. Sold it to Topless who has recently sold it to a Scottish zoner, can't remember who though. Will see what pics I can find.

[Kedge]

Magnex manifold,

[bss325i]

Ive been slated every time when ive said hottuning, but it does increase torque midrange and up power, i know its not a great deal, but for less than £200 , you get a good sound and look which is all some want

Fair enough if thats all you want.

design is basically a btb copy

But poorly executed. The are numerous people on here who have had either fitting issues of had the manifold fail.

Some people dont have £800 to spend on a manifold, as i understand it you would still have to tune the engine to it.

Its £650 in the group buys and no tuning required. Bolt on a BTB and reap the gains.

So for less you could have the ht one and a remap from gunni

But you wouldn't get the same gains as a BTB alone.

[bss325i]

Standard Vs BTB.

Note the huge gain of mid range torque and that the power climbs all the way to its peak at the red line.

[bss325i]

Standard vs Hottuning/Raceland

Sorry about the delay in getting the 2nd dyno run done!

Finally got it done this morning, big thanks to Paul (sheps) for the dyno runs/time.

Manifold was fitted to my 325i touring, before fitting, only mods were a full sebring exhaust system, zone chip and an induction kit.

Obviously a good strong engine to start with, engine came from an auto with just over 100k on the clock.

Red line shows pre hottuning, purple with hottuning.

No adjustments were made to the fuelling, Paul pointed out that the car is running rich at some points since fitting the manifold, and obviously a remap would sort this out.

All in all, it's shown an improvement, good increase in torque, and it looks much nicer in the engine bay than the cast manifold.

[fuzzy]

would the big difference in environment temp have accounted for a good part of that bhp rise on the hottuning manifold?

[steve_k]

Hmm a thread about the best & worst manifolds? here we go again & popcorn time

yes i know it's for the wiki but you just know there's going to be plenty of & .

sorry but it's true i'm not trying to cause a row but it (nearly) allways happens with these threads.

at the end of the day it comes down to two things, personal choice & budget.

i've got a magnex manifold (same as the one kedge has posted) & its been on the car for about 5 years & before that i had the standard log manifold so i can't comment on if it's better or worse than any others out there.

[bss325i]

In rough order of age from oldest to newest for E30 M20 RHD manifolds

Alpina
Hartge
Racing dynamics
Griffin motorsport
Brospeed
Magnex
Fritz Bitz
BTB2
Hottuning/Raceland (BTB2 copy)
BTB3
Ebay £99 Hottuning copy

[skipunda]

Steve, with respect they were doing OK until you posted that.

[bss325i]

would the big difference in environment temp have accounted for a good part of that bhp rise on the hottuning manifold?

Maybe.

Hmm a thread about the best & worst manifolds? here we go again & popcorn time

yes i know it's for the wiki but you just know there's going to be plenty of & .

No hostility or slander, just the facts.

[steve_k]

Steve, with respect they were doing OK until you posted that.

no worries delete it if you like.

it's just my opinion thats all.

like i said delete it if you want.

[fuzzy]

you can buy a hottuning copy?
i remember someone posting a graph up a couple of years back and iirc it showed about a 1bhp peak increase but losses midrange.
its purely a cosmetic part and not a serious tuning part imo.

[bss325i]

you can buy a hottuning copy?

Yeah!

Jim320i tried and failed to fit one to his car.

[Grrrmachine]

Is there any concrete info on the Alpina or Hartge manifolds? I've asked a few of the tuning homos to write 'Pina and 'ge articles for the Wiki, but no-one's got back to me yet.

[bss325i]

Here is Jim's £99 pound effort.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... sc&start=0

[bss325i]

Is there any concrete info on the Alpina or Hartge manifolds? I've asked a few of the tuning homos to write 'Pina and 'ge articles for the Wiki, but no-one's got back to me yet.

In the years that i have been into this i have never seen any back to back info on either of their gains.

TBH, the ONLY way of stating what does what is to test each one on a standard engine and we all know that sadly that aint going to happen.

[Topblag]

I had a full magnex system, manifold and exhaust. Can't comment on how much difference it made as it was already on the touring in my sig pic. Sold it to Topless who has recently sold it to a Scottish zoner, can't remember who though. Will see what pics I can find.