Understanding the E30 shell - Rust

[skipunda]

Been having a natter with Phil today again, mainly about rust or the M20 engine. We reckon there's enough people who don't truly know what to look out for when buying an E30.
Worse still are those who soldier on for 5 years oblivious to the 6 inch rusted gap appearing near the steering column. A festering pig of a car is sometimes not easy to spot from behind the wheel!

A few of us then have spent a bit of time understanding why these things rust in the first place. The same guys likely have a book or two on the subject or know exactly which part of which thread to look at.

But no complete thread with colour photos covers the subject in great detail it seems...

If you know where to look it IS possible to get a really nice shell. Understanding every part of the E30 shell then at least on a simple level is a very neat trick.


We all know what a bloody scuttle looks like but what does one just getting on the turn look like, what does the same one look like from the other side? What is the cause and effect?

Some of us REALLY know these cars. Time to dig out the pics!

[skipunda]

Basic gist: Why these things rust with plenty of photos.

Links to certain pages of restorations, talk about renowned restorers, further reading etc etc.

Scuttle, Footwells, Inner arches, Boot, Sunroof drain, engine bay, chassis.....

[daimlerman]

Beardymat/e30topless are your friends here.

BTW,column....

[leeparkes]

This was on a fragger, rest of the car looked sound.






Nice air line bodge

[skipunda]

Spelling and grammar fixed (a bit) just for you mr.daimlerman!

It's one of those threads where the answer can be painfully obvious - do a search, read a resto thread. Some people though can be a little daunted by 30 pages, so a one or two page guide might help somewhat or point them in the right direction.

leeparkes - that's exactly what I'm talking about.

[mark_i]

This is a great thread you've started.

No pics at this time, but I'd like to add my observations to add to the store of knowledge.

Rusting of a steel bodyshell is an electrochemical reaction where iron (Fe) in the steel is converted to iron oxide (Fe2O3), the soft brown deposit that is rust.
The rusting process is promoted in damp environments where water collects in a car body shell and is able to penetrate any exposed metal surfaces.

As well as the presence of salt, the rusting process is also accelerated by the bad earthing of body panels.
Because the rusting reaction is electrochemical, any difference in the composition of two steel panels is also a factor... two different metals joined in a wet, salty, conductive environment will create a small electric currents (in microamps) that also causes rusting.
Steel is a fairly complex metal mixture so in addition to the brown iron oxide, we also find black corrosion from the oxidation of manganese and chromium.

Just to let you know that here in Oz we get as much rain as you guys in Europe but since the roads aren't salted in winter, rusting isnt such a big problem.

I have a 1990 325i touring that spent 10 years in UK. rusting is there on the front wings where the mudguards were attached, under the bonnet hinge and on the brake booster.
However the rust hasnt spread in the last 7 years since i cleaned off the corrosion and covered the areas with Fish oil .

i also have a 2-door 318iS that is rust free except for a hole on the left hand side of the boot channel close to the radio antenna. The hole corresponds to a spot weld where the metal bracket supporting the rear light wiring loom is attached. Probably when the shell was primed and painted in the production line, a minute area was not fully covered, water collected in the dimple, never properly cleaned out and the steel eventually corroded away.





,

[daimlerman]

Spelling and grammar fixed (a bit) just for you mr.daimlerman!

Thank you,young man!

You mods,upps,'team members' really should be setting an example to the rest of us oily fingered urchins...

And E30's do not rust,they are crafted from steel touched only by 25 year old virgins....




This one must have been telling fibs!

[gooner1]

This is what was hiding beneath a fairly straight looking rear quarter.











Unfortuanately, i employed the service of a to rectify it.

[Grrrmachine]

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, and making a subsequent Wiki page on this topic.

If it helps, have a look at the existing Bodywork page on the Wiki if it helps you remember where the rust was on your own car:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Bodywork

[skipunda]

^ It certainly does help, that wiki link but this focuses on one part of that article.
Just like the photos of the red cab above, hopefully we will see examples of a little visible rust actually being a lot worse once trim is removed. If we can get these photos they would be a worthy addition to the wiki.

I'm probably coming across a bit bone idle with lack of input myself. When I've finished working on the forum I'll see what I have in the archives and perhaps an expert can help identify the hows and whys - and part numbers.

[Grrrmachine]

Time to bring out this classic rust pic again then...

[skipunda]

That's a bit nasty!

With the wing on what did it look like?

[capri_rob]

I can help with this thread


Saloon drivers side rear inner arch - the bolt-head is holding the filler nect bracket - epic bodgery
behind the black plastic plate there was further grot and an aluminimum plate which was tiger sealed into place


Passenger side inner rear arch - plate tiger-sealed on from underneath


Saloon drivers side rear inner arch


Front subframe ARB mounting points



Trailing arm spring mounts


Filler neck/vent pipe








Behind washer bottle


Most E30's






Fookin jacking points




Throttle pedal mount


Filler neck




Behind the pedal box - you'd never have known until the pedal box was removed


The end of the line


Drivers side rear inner arch


And again


Wiring loom grommet








I had thought the passenger side was solid










Battery tray before


After


Underneath battery tray pre-waxoyl

[skipunda]

Good addition there sir. [edit]A photo of a fairly nice looking panel from the outside actually being a bit far gone from the inside would help build a good picture of what we're talking about.

[daimlerman]

We really must stop refering to those square things under the front footwells as 'jacking points'.
They were installed to allow the bare shell to be mounted to the factory production line,not to be used to lift the bloody thing into the air with your trolley jack.....

[Grrrmachine]

Locations identified, template made; keep track of all the Rust developments on the new wiki page:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Rust

[Speedtouch]

This was found underneath the rear numberplate of my 1989 F-reg Tech 2 Sport:



In addition to most of the areas shown by capri_rob.

The car looked pretty sound when I bought it!

[capri_rob]

We really must stop refering to those square things under the front footwells as 'jacking points'.
They were installed to allow the bare shell to be mounted to the factory production line,not to be used to lift the bloody thing into the air with your trolley jack.....

Sorry force of habit.

What I still can't get my head around is some people re-fitting them after repairing the floor

If the floor's been repaired its not original - theres little point chasing originality if its had to be welded up so why put back the thing that was the biggest contributor to the floor rotting out in the first place when its not actually needed

There's clearly a fine line between OEM-ness, masochism and stupidity

[TPS]

Good thread this, shows what can lurk beneath, on the outside of perfectly presently looking car.

[Jozi]

Good thread/topic. If it helps, there's a good lot of pics of all the area's I repaired on my touring project (link in sig). I still have the shell on the spit and can take pics of anything really if it helps? I have a 2nd shell as well that I could take pics of as well

Just from the top of my head here's some of the area's I repaired:
Cills - jacking points and along the seam mostly
Arches - rear inner replaced (rotten on the other side on the other touring), few holes up front where the arches meet the panel behind
Sunroof panel - Removed a scabby one and can clearly see why they rust at the drains and also the cause of why the roof starts to rot
Touring boot lid - can have a look at these as I have a good one and one that started rusting
Seatbelt mounting points rot from between the bracket their welded to

There's prob more I can't think of.

[DHFiS]

Sunroof issues

[Grrrmachine]

The sunroof I took off half an hour ago is worse than that one; I only had to undo five screws, since the brackets for the other one had rusted away completely

From the top, it just looks a little bubbly, aside from the peeling laquer...


But horrors were lurking underneath

[Grrrmachine]

And some more spots:

Despite looking pristine on the outside, the tailgate can trap all sorts of nastiness underneath its plastic shroud:


Also, the seams of the rear valance, where it meets the rear wing, are rot traps. On tourings the left side is especially prone, due to the heat of the exhaust, the water from the roads and spillage from the rear washer bottle all acting in the same area. A small bubble like this:



will in reality be a gaping wound like this:

[TouringMatt]

Currently doing the rust i found on mine. These are the rear lower seatbelt mounts on my Touring, Robs pics seem to have covered the rest!

Im in the 5 year and ignorant section. Knew the car had some rust issues, mainly cosmetic, didnt realise it had gaping holes, the cars mechanically good, i've replaced pretty much evey bush and bearing since i brought it in 2005, genuinely didnt realise it was the way it was though





There is a pressed bracket that is above the subframe, i guess moisture gets in there?

[Jozi]

Mine went in exactly the same place, not quite as bad as that though. What were the brackets like behind?

[TouringMatt]

Solid, they didnt even look rusty, in fact i'd done all the work in the arches and it was only when i moved inside the car to clean up what i thought was light corrosion, that i ended up digging a load of corroded metal out, annoyingly i'd undersealed the brackets from the underside, they really didnt look bad. Story of the car!

[nickso]

I have been wanting to make a newbie rust finding Wiki for some time now. Only my lack of computer skills and decent pics has stopped me. And laziness of course.

[Grrrmachine]

Right, here's the Rust wiki rebooted:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Rust

Time depending, I'll add links to the relevant part of the Restorations threads we have so that people know how to fix the problem, but for now can we continue Skip's idea of "what the rust looked like BEFORE I attacked it with an angle grinder?"

[Kedge]

Feel free to use any pics from this thread of a very rotten Tech 1 Sport i broke.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=

[bss325i]

Promised photos of this turd on Kedges thread. We knew it was a shed but f*ck me!!!!! This is something else. the nearside front corner is virtually adrift from the reast of the car!!!!:

To think the seller thought it was savable is laughable really.

A post with wing still on!





and looking from the door shut forwards



It had allowed the car to distort enough to puss the screen out of it's seal with the trim strip still in place



With the wing off we were able to.....



making the door go.....



Roof now. first from the outside



worse from within




just for Pete, a classic bit of the old hairy mary:



Taken from the A post with the wing removed:





Inner sill



and the nearside Tech 1 sill section didn't need unbolting!!! it came away in my hands:




offside wasn't so bad



Nearside rear arch



inner arch



And finally: Why buy clear indicators when you canmake your own



Discuss!

This is going today so heres a few before she leaves!






enjoy!

[bss325i]

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... sc&start=0

[Morat]

This thread is like a chamber of horrors

[Kedge]

I forgot how bad that one was

Hopefully make people realise why a kit needs to come off and carpets up, especially on sports!

[Jozi]

Feel free to take what ever you can from my own thread, however judging by the above that won't be necessary!

I suppose they were advertised as rust free or little rust but what do yo uexpect fro ma 20yr old car

[Simon13]

i'm famous!