BMW Production Cup Advice....

[hazd31]

Ive been racing karts for years (since Having just done 2 years of european racing have decided its probably time to dive a little seeper into car racing.

Obvously i would love to jump into Fford Or Renault but i dont have a £150,000 budget!

I am either concidering having another go at racing in europe with everything we learnt this year and hopefully getting into the top 3.

Or Having a go at some budget racing.

Ive had a few offers for Fiesta Zetec and Mk1 MX5 racing, Thes mazda one being a very nice offer indeed.

But being an e30 owner thought it was worth looking into the E30 champs as ive heard the cheating is not too bad!


Havent seen many outfits for sale, was wondering if also anyone does arrive and drive or even just rental for a test day?

Would build my own car, but as it usually is with these things, better to buy a pre built wagon.

What do you recon the costs are, Brand new mx5 build is about 5k, simular for a used fiesta, is it the same for the e30?

[grayday1810]

Currently in our secon season in PBMW. price of a car depends on what you want really. A really nice built race winning car is over £10K but cars can be bought for 4 or 5. It is a great series with big grids. We are looking at setting up a arrive and drive package as it hasn't been explored yet in th championship. The names down your way are rob at RAW Motorsport or Matt swaffer does a trackday experience at brands hatch. (Pbmw Track Days on Facebook). We are based in Nottingham but should be doing every round next year.

Regards
Fred
ArkAutomotive

[rix313]

I'd personally always be a bit wary of buying a prebuilt club car. There is the obvious advantage of it being a lot cheaper but you never know who's built it to what level of detail, skill or maintenance during the season.

I'm aiming to do the TTRS next year, mainly because the parts I've got fitted are eligable for it, just need to get some better suspension sorted.

[hazd31]

Sure, im used to a game where everythings brand new and thats best (except barrels on engines and carbs)

So is there a large discrepency in the cars? Is there a spec/ standard setup to go for?


Would be very interested in a test!

[rix313]

PBMW regs are very tight to obviously keep the costs as low as possible: http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/PBMWC_ ... ue_ONE.pdf

TTRS regs allow a little more to be done to the cars, allowing LSD's and bigger brakes for example:
http://www.pbmwc.co.uk/downloads/2010TO ... sueONE.pdf

[miniblob]

Soooooo...... prob a really stupid question, but......

How small a budget do you reckon you could do a PBMW season on???

I mean, after you've got the car setup (the main cost obviously), are we just talking tyres, brakes, fluids and filters??? (Obviously assuming you're lucky enough to have no significant damage and no big mechanical failures!!)

Also, how many rounds are there??


Anyone know of any other really low budget racing series????

Just wondering, 'cos I might have some time for this next year

[hazd31]

Soooooo...... prob a really stupid question, but......

How small a budget do you reckon you could do a PBMW season on???

I mean, after you've got the car setup (the main cost obviously), are we just talking tyres, brakes, fluids and filters??? (Obviously assuming you're lucky enough to have no significant damage and no big mechanical failures!!)

Also, how many rounds are there??


Anyone know of any other really low budget racing series????

Just wondering, 'cos I might have some time for this next year

You must be a motorsport noob

The running costs will far outweigh the purchase cos of the car!

[Brian28]

PBMW is about as budget as it gets, and the season costs really depend to a large extent on how much you want to spend. First season is the most expensive, as you have to get licence, racing kit etc as well as getting the car up together. Somewhere around 7 to 10 meetings usually between March and September.

If you want to go out and have a good laugh without worrying about being competitive, consumables arent too bad. About eight tyres (less if you don't do every round), couple of oil changes, mebbe brake pads, and race entry fees. And you won't be the slowest, tight racing with other people is the good bit, regardless if you're racing for 3rd or 30th. Is done by quite a few people in road legal cars, spares in the boot and drive to the track so no additional trailer or transport costs.

If you want to be more competitive then the costs will more or less double as you'll likely do a test day for each meeting, use twice as many tyres, twice as likely to wear things out that need to be replaced. Even the travel costs to meetings stack up over a season. Don't add up the costs, just do it.

Edit - A few PBMW cars will be racing at Brands this weekend so worth a day out if you are anywhere half close.

[hazd31]

Im racing saturday in the club msv thing! is that what there entered in?

[Black_Potato]

Saturday is the last TTRS round and the end of season handicap.

Re costs.... Buy a good used one for £5k as above and allocate around £5k for a years racing if you do it on the cheap. That money will be split 3 ways, entries, travel, maintinance.

With racing don't go into it unless you can afford a total loss.

Safety gear, licence etc... £1k

[hazd31]

Championship winning budget?
Theres no point competing unless your gonna win right?

[Brian28]

With enough talent that 5k will win you a champonship, without enough talent start adding more money

[podiumprep]

Im racing saturday in the club msv thing! is that what there entered in?

What are you driving? Photo

[Black_Potato]

Championship winning budget?
Theres no point competing unless your gonna win right?

Complete nut and bolt rebuild, blue printed engine, custom dampers by say Ohlins setup with Aurok (one of the few performance loop holes in the regs) Say £15k-20k for the car

Then a test day at least before every event and a handfull before the start of the season along with decent trackside support. Then 10 rounds. Probably around £15k again

Then only you could loose it. To be honest I dont think anybody has gone quite this far in all aspects yet but a few have probably come close and still only made it into the top 10. Other have competed on the £5k &5K budget and finished on the podium most races.

[miniblob]

Motorsport noob - yeah, kinda. I watch a lot and am no stranger to track days, but have never raced!!!!!
Did a day in Elise & Exige race cars a couple of weeks ago and feeling the need for a lot more track time!!!!!!!

Some great advice there guys, thanks!!!

Basically wanted to confirm I could see a season through for £10k (barring any incidents!!) - Just making sure it wasn't a ridiculous idea that would end up costing me £30k!!!
Very encouraging to hear Black_Potato has stuck near a 10k budget and been on the podium!!

I know what you're saying about a championship winning budget and I would normally wanna go for that, but for a first year of competitive (hopefully!) racing, I would be keeping to as small a budget as I can, to just try and take part in as many rounds as poss, find my feet, etc!!! And see if I've got talent worth spending more on!! Lol!!

As much as I'd love to build my own car, it's gotta be a lot more expensive than buying a used one???

Also, does anyone just turn up on their own? A one man race team, lol!!

Saturday at Brands is a test day?? PBMW cars having a play??
Sunday is the Victor Meldrew - might be able to make it for that!!!

I'll have to have a proper read of the rules, regs, etc and have a little think about it!!!!!

[Black_Potato]

One man race teams are common

Its a few years since I ran in PBMW but when I did I drove to the race meets in the racing car with all my stuff in the back. As its a one make "Budget" series there is generally a good vibe in the paddock and most parts are availbale if needed.

Your only real risk is not being able to get home with a dead engine or big accident but if you stick £500 in your savings account for recovery you probably wont use it. the other option is to trailer yourself but then you need to havea tow car, trailer etc.. and fuel will be more. Finally you can have the car manged for you but thats more expensive again.
On the one occasion I couldnt drive home in around 3 years of racing somebody let me use their tow car and trailer to transport it back.

Winning.. lots of people think this is a soft championship and think they can win it 1st time. However its far from easy, the guys at the front are very quick (I dont class myself as one of them) and very commited to racing in this series. to give an idea Ben http://www.benwinrow.co.uk/home/ has won a few races but has frequently been beaten fairly and squarely.

[Brian28]

To be honest I dont think anybody has gone quite this far in all aspects yet but a few have probably come close

B_P, somebody has upped the ante. You now need to add acid dipping the shell prior to prepping it to the list .

Saturday at Brands is a test day?? PBMW cars having a play??
Sunday is the Victor Meldrew - might be able to make it for that!!!

Saturday 12th is race day, qually 9 to 11ish, racing 12 to 4ish. A few PBMW cars will likely be out in TTRS (Project8 Saloons) and/or the Victor Meldrew trophy. The VM is worth watching if you can make it just for entertainment value, it's an end of season not too serious affair. It's a handicap race (of sorts), slowest cars start in pole and get a 10/15 sec start, then the next wave go, 10/15 seconds later the next bunch go, and then the cossies/M3s etc start from the back to make their way up through the field.

[hazd31]

Im racing saturday in the club msv thing! is that what there entered in?

What are you driving? Photo

Fiesta 1.4 thing, no pics, its a borrowed car!

[miniblob]

Was planning on having a tow car and a dolly or trailer anyway tbh!!
I'll need another car anyway and a mate has a dolly i can usually borrow too!!!

Soon find out if I've got any talent racing people like Ben!!!!!

I'll have to see what the weekend brings - out for a big one friday night though so I don't think I'll make saturday!! Lol!!

[hazd31]

Minibob you sound like your friday night is on a racing drivers daily schedual

So whos there saturday? Ill be in a blue fiesta with lime green bumpers (barton motorsport)

[Black_Potato]

I'd be interested in the legality of useing a dolly... always something I have been wary of as I believe they are only for recovery but would be happy to be corrected.

Talking of Fiesta's... I wonder if its this one

[hazd31]

Cant get on youtube at work!!
Some loon getting masses of lift off oversteer and a huge tankslapper down the road??

For the price of a dolly surely you might as well spend an extra few bob on a trailer, you wont be towing a damaged car home on a dolly!

[hazd31]

I'd be interested in the legality of useing a dolly... always something I have been wary of as I believe they are only for recovery but would be happy to be corrected.

Talking of Fiesta's... I wonder if its this one

I dont think it is, its a bit younger than that one!!

[Black_Potato]

And with more bits of metal still in the engine block I hope ;)

[miniblob]

Not sure about the legality's of the dolly - I'm always recovering something when i borrow it!! Lol!!

True about towing a damaged car on it though - hadn't thought that through, though a trailer would be my aim anyway!!

[Brian28]

How'd the Fester go in MSV club? Meldrew was a good laugh, usual handicap race chaos with the running order.

[hazd31]

not great, the car had less than 90bhp so was the slowest thing on the track by nearly a second. we ended up 18th on the road out of 32 but got excluded and 4 points for going through a red pit lane light along with 2 other cars (one of which was an msa official)

the caos looked quite exciting! we had a rushed repair on a white 205 that was in our awning

Ive been offered a full time job working the british and euro champs in karting so a championship is out the question but my plan is to get enough races in to upgrade to a national a for an attack season in 2013

Got my dad all excited about the cheapness of the car idea, even though it was boring and slow!

[randomspeedfreak]

Ive been offered a full time job working the british and euro champs in karting so a championship is out the question but my plan is to get enough races in to upgrade to a national a for an attack season in 2013

who you working for mate?

have a look at formula jedi. quick single seaters, with downforce, for not too much cash..thats where im going when i get back in the game!

[hazd31]

Tatum racing, we have a wealthy french driver whos investing a bit of money.
Done a bit of work for him in the past and i drove his van to a couple of the further rounds in exchange for awning space and free diesel

[Brian28]

Bit of in car from the Meldrew race, this was from a car on grid drop five (the fifth group to start the handicap race, four groups had already gone).

[hazd31]

that poor mk2 escort

[Brian28]

that poor mk2 escort

Great in car of it here, scrapping with the Escort then the contact that put the Escort out (Dan Croft, awesomely quick Clio Cup car). Haven't met the guy tho from from the comments he sounds like an ar5e, calling the escort a grey bucket if sh!t. There is a bit of my E30 at the start, in the rear view I'm starting from the back of the grid inside row behind the white M3 (hidden by the M3), and very briefly get in front of the Clio on the run to Paddock (RWD Vs FWD on a cold track )

[Hoobs]

My local hire services do a transit & trailer that total about £90 for a weekend and you can sleep in the back. Dolly's are ok but not really much use if you bend it.