Right well its finally time to get it onto a track and I could do with some advise as this will be my first outing on a track. I'm going to book an airfield day where there is lots of run-off, no armco, and hopefully less competition. Being young I don't want to get caught up in racing the bollacks off a car on a real track only to find my skills arn't as good as my ego and battering the car or even worse someone elses.
So what should I know i'm letting myself in for? I'm not going to be red-lining every gear one because of the slush box and two because the engine doesn't need to be redlined to go quick(very torquey @ lower rpm's) I've split it into catagories as to what my assumptions are and hopefully what your experiences/views are.
Cooling
The car has very recently had a coolant change, last 200 miles so i'm not expecting to have to change much here. The main beam light will come out to allow the intercooler as much breathing as possible aswell as literally cooling the turbo. I'm thinking about 15 mins out on the airfield, then 15 mins in the pits do these seem reasonable times, bearing in mind this engine will get hotter than your standard m20.
Braking
Again as this is my first time time i'm not going all out for heavy last minite braking, but was still thinking about changing the fluid to something a bit better so it doesn't boil off. I've heard good things about MOTUL RBF600. Can anyone tell me whether the stuff in the link below is the same(as it seems to have the same boiling point) http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... MOT8069/HB
It just seems quite cheap compared to other "racing" fluids which can be as much as Ԛ£40+ a litre. Also another thing what quantity does it require, is 500ml enough?
The pads and disks are original equipment and I think thats how I will leave them, can anyone tell me if this is a dier move? There is plenty of meat on both.
Tyres
On a set of hartge wheels I have they are running 205/55 r 15 with asymmetrical perellis, which look more like off road tyres to be fair(i didn't choose the rubber they came with it)
The other set is some team dynamics wheels with 195/50 r15 rubber. These have goodyear eagle F1's on one axle(mint) and BF goodrich on the other(well worn). The problem with the team dynamics is they need a spacer and the bolts don't go that far into the hub which is giving me reservations about using them.
My question will I notice the tyre grip difference between the makes of tyres, one set obviously being better make than the other. But at the same the other set is a 1cm wider.
Misc
What other things should I take/be prepared for? eg fire exting./jacks/tools/driving license.
Sorry for the rather long post much appreciated if you have got this far.
Jon
Track time has come, help needed.
Moderator: martauto
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Jon_Bmw
- Dangerous when thinking
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- Location: Salisbury
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Ceeman
- E30 Zone Newbie
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:00 pm
I can give you my humble opinion as i have just started doing track days myself in a 325i Sport after a few modifications.
My first track day was last month at Silverstone, and it was fantastic, an awesome circuit and the car was faultless, even after 4 hours of pounding.
I will answer you queries, and not bore you with the mods that i have made.
Cooling, i too had some work done here, a new water pump and radiator, meant a fairly clean system, so cooling was not an issue, in fact, it was below half almost all of the time.
Brakes, well i have also used Motul RBF600, a complete refresh was about 750ml. I used Pagid fast road with ATE power discs up front and standard discs and pads at the rear. They performed very well with no fade what so ever, although i would recommend better pads for the rear. Under no circumstances skimp on braking, you soon realise that your brakes are more important than engine power. Approaching a bend at 120mph and relying on my brakes is fairly high on my priority list, this is why i had new brake lines, braided hoses, calipers, discs and pads all round. You will be amazed when you come off a session how hot they get. After 1 day my alloys are slightly discoloured!!!
Tyres.
Wet or dry?
I had brand new Pirelli P6000's fitted and had no choice but to use them. They were pretty good actually, i expected them to get ruined but they didn't, thankfully. These will be my wet set, and i will be getting some Colway F2's for the dry. I'm sure these will be a great improvement. It comes down to how much you can afford to waste really, as motorsport tyres are always expensive. As a general rule, i think you should run a road tyre with as little tread as possible to get best performance.
As far as other things go, i take tools, trolley jack, oil, water can etc... Check wheel bolts after every session, check tyre pressure regularly (they will obviously change with temperature) and oil too. Also, don't forget to tape the lights and fit your towing eye.
Most importantly though, have fun, it's a ball you'll love it.
My first track day was last month at Silverstone, and it was fantastic, an awesome circuit and the car was faultless, even after 4 hours of pounding.
I will answer you queries, and not bore you with the mods that i have made.
Cooling, i too had some work done here, a new water pump and radiator, meant a fairly clean system, so cooling was not an issue, in fact, it was below half almost all of the time.
Brakes, well i have also used Motul RBF600, a complete refresh was about 750ml. I used Pagid fast road with ATE power discs up front and standard discs and pads at the rear. They performed very well with no fade what so ever, although i would recommend better pads for the rear. Under no circumstances skimp on braking, you soon realise that your brakes are more important than engine power. Approaching a bend at 120mph and relying on my brakes is fairly high on my priority list, this is why i had new brake lines, braided hoses, calipers, discs and pads all round. You will be amazed when you come off a session how hot they get. After 1 day my alloys are slightly discoloured!!!
Tyres.
Wet or dry?
I had brand new Pirelli P6000's fitted and had no choice but to use them. They were pretty good actually, i expected them to get ruined but they didn't, thankfully. These will be my wet set, and i will be getting some Colway F2's for the dry. I'm sure these will be a great improvement. It comes down to how much you can afford to waste really, as motorsport tyres are always expensive. As a general rule, i think you should run a road tyre with as little tread as possible to get best performance.
As far as other things go, i take tools, trolley jack, oil, water can etc... Check wheel bolts after every session, check tyre pressure regularly (they will obviously change with temperature) and oil too. Also, don't forget to tape the lights and fit your towing eye.
Most importantly though, have fun, it's a ball you'll love it.
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GavinJ
- E30 Zone Regular
- Posts: 869
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
I only started going on trackdays this year and i'm doing my 5th next month so its highly addictive!
My first bit of advice is take it easy and don't rush into going quick - sometimes this can be hard when quicker more experienced drivers are on the track but you just need to ignore them- at the end of the day they were slow when they started......
I use my old '78 MGB GT and I just ensure i give it a good service, oil and filter change, make sure all your belts are in good nick no cracks, check pads discs, basically give your car thorough looking over before each trackday. This is all i've done and touch wood i've had no break downs yet....
Make sure you get a decent fire extinguisher, they can be bought from Halfords and a decent size one with mounting bracket is about Ԛ£30.
As for tools i don't usually take many apart from the standard tool kit for the car...but again then some people seem to empty there garage into there boot and then take them all out when they get to the circuit...so it's upto you? how much faith do you have in the car
As for tyres/wheels why not take both sets and swap them on the day see what you prefer?
As for brake fluid i shouldn't see the need to change the fluid if your not planning any very heavy braking and your original discs and pads should be up for the job - you could look at upgrading them once there due to be changed? if you feel the need to.
You'll need both parts of your driving license - plastic card and green paper bit.
You'll need to empty your car of anything that could fly about inside, maps etc...
Bring a helmet or arrange to hire one although if your planning on going regular its worth buying one as the hire can be expensive.
One tip is once you have finished your session don't leave your handbrake on as your brakes will be hot and can sometimes stick.
As for cooling time i think it all depends on how hot it gets, obviously if you can see its getting very hot on the guage then its going to need a while to cool down. When i do open pit lane days my general rule is to let it cool down for the same amount of time you have been on track ie. 20 mins on track - 20 mins cool down time.
Make sure through the day you keep an eye on your oil level and also for tyre wear as i've heard some of the airfield surfaces can eat through tyres so you need to make your going to be driving on road legal tyres!
My first bit of advice is take it easy and don't rush into going quick - sometimes this can be hard when quicker more experienced drivers are on the track but you just need to ignore them- at the end of the day they were slow when they started......
I use my old '78 MGB GT and I just ensure i give it a good service, oil and filter change, make sure all your belts are in good nick no cracks, check pads discs, basically give your car thorough looking over before each trackday. This is all i've done and touch wood i've had no break downs yet....
Make sure you get a decent fire extinguisher, they can be bought from Halfords and a decent size one with mounting bracket is about Ԛ£30.
As for tools i don't usually take many apart from the standard tool kit for the car...but again then some people seem to empty there garage into there boot and then take them all out when they get to the circuit...so it's upto you? how much faith do you have in the car
As for tyres/wheels why not take both sets and swap them on the day see what you prefer?
As for brake fluid i shouldn't see the need to change the fluid if your not planning any very heavy braking and your original discs and pads should be up for the job - you could look at upgrading them once there due to be changed? if you feel the need to.
You'll need both parts of your driving license - plastic card and green paper bit.
You'll need to empty your car of anything that could fly about inside, maps etc...
Bring a helmet or arrange to hire one although if your planning on going regular its worth buying one as the hire can be expensive.
One tip is once you have finished your session don't leave your handbrake on as your brakes will be hot and can sometimes stick.
As for cooling time i think it all depends on how hot it gets, obviously if you can see its getting very hot on the guage then its going to need a while to cool down. When i do open pit lane days my general rule is to let it cool down for the same amount of time you have been on track ie. 20 mins on track - 20 mins cool down time.
Make sure through the day you keep an eye on your oil level and also for tyre wear as i've heard some of the airfield surfaces can eat through tyres so you need to make your going to be driving on road legal tyres!
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Jon_Bmw
- Dangerous when thinking
- Posts: 7604
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Salisbury
Thank you Ceeman and Gavin for your very comprehensive answers, must have taken a long time to write that lot if you are anything like me on a keyboard.
I'm taking a couple of cars, one support vehicle shall we say(lift home if the other one doesn't make it
) so i'll be able to have plenty of tools and spare wheels, i may take both sets of wheels, i've heard nothing but good things about eagle F1's and they are supposed to be good in the wet too.
Fire extinguisher wise, Co2 or foam?, i presuming not water because of all of the electrics under the bonnet.
I've got a couple of helmets so thats good, one is a motocross one-will have to see what they say about that
Thanks about reminding me about both bits of the license, I would have been bound to turn up with one bit!
Do towing eyes have to be fitted then, not a problem as i've got one in the boot? That does sound a good tip about the handbrake, i don't normally use it i just leave it in park
I think i'll change the fluid and leave the rest of the braking components and see how we go, it does have large runoff which could prove advantagous(lets hope not) So i'll order 2 bottles of that.
Checking wheel bolts after each session is another good point, something that easily overlooked after you are buzzing from racing about. These are the sort of little tips i'm after, keep them coming guys.
Thanks for answering you two, much appreciated.
Jon
I'm taking a couple of cars, one support vehicle shall we say(lift home if the other one doesn't make it
) so i'll be able to have plenty of tools and spare wheels, i may take both sets of wheels, i've heard nothing but good things about eagle F1's and they are supposed to be good in the wet too.Fire extinguisher wise, Co2 or foam?, i presuming not water because of all of the electrics under the bonnet.
I've got a couple of helmets so thats good, one is a motocross one-will have to see what they say about that
Thanks about reminding me about both bits of the license, I would have been bound to turn up with one bit!
Do towing eyes have to be fitted then, not a problem as i've got one in the boot? That does sound a good tip about the handbrake, i don't normally use it i just leave it in park
I think i'll change the fluid and leave the rest of the braking components and see how we go, it does have large runoff which could prove advantagous(lets hope not) So i'll order 2 bottles of that.
Checking wheel bolts after each session is another good point, something that easily overlooked after you are buzzing from racing about. These are the sort of little tips i'm after, keep them coming guys.
Thanks for answering you two, much appreciated.
Jon
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Taylor325i
- E30 Zone Camper
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland. Brilliant Red Tech II 325i.
Jon_Bmw wrote:
The problem with the team dynamics is they need a spacer and the bolts don't go that far into the hub which is giving me reservations about using them.
You should get longer wheel bolts for these wheels - you'll get away with bolts that are a bit too short on the road but it's just asking for trouble on the track. iirc they are only about Ԛ£1 / Ԛ£1.50 each.
Taylor.
The problem with the team dynamics is they need a spacer and the bolts don't go that far into the hub which is giving me reservations about using them.
You should get longer wheel bolts for these wheels - you'll get away with bolts that are a bit too short on the road but it's just asking for trouble on the track. iirc they are only about Ԛ£1 / Ԛ£1.50 each.
Taylor.
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Jon_Bmw
- Dangerous when thinking
- Posts: 7604
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Salisbury
Where would I get these, I can't imagine the dealer stocking them, south coast wheels or the like?Taylor325i wrote:Jon_Bmw wrote:
The problem with the team dynamics is they need a spacer and the bolts don't go that far into the hub which is giving me reservations about using them.
You should get longer wheel bolts for these wheels - you'll get away with bolts that are a bit too short on the road but it's just asking for trouble on the track. iirc they are only about Ԛ£1 / Ԛ£1.50 each.
Taylor.
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Lloydie38
- E30 Zone Regular
- Posts: 732
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Douglas, Isle of Man
All of the above are good advice re technical set up and running.
My first trip out in my car (E36 328is) was with an instructor driving and one thing he showed me was to keep it smooth, no sharp turns on the wheel or altering the ballence of the car without planned intension (easy to say !). It's well worth paying a little more for an instructor first time.
Don't get pulled in by the fast guys, go at YOUR speed for a beginer and get used to the track and your car first. Then you can start upping the speed and it just makes it more enjoyable when you have confidence in your own abilities.
Usually the guys at the track are really helpful and friendly and you won't be the only learner out there I'm sure.
Good luck and have fun - warning - it is v-addictive!!
My first trip out in my car (E36 328is) was with an instructor driving and one thing he showed me was to keep it smooth, no sharp turns on the wheel or altering the ballence of the car without planned intension (easy to say !). It's well worth paying a little more for an instructor first time.
Don't get pulled in by the fast guys, go at YOUR speed for a beginer and get used to the track and your car first. Then you can start upping the speed and it just makes it more enjoyable when you have confidence in your own abilities.
Usually the guys at the track are really helpful and friendly and you won't be the only learner out there I'm sure.
Good luck and have fun - warning - it is v-addictive!!
The Isle of Man: No National Speed Limit, No Gatso's, No Nanny State, a disused airfield track 1.5 miles long, the best mountain road to drive on...Come and Play!
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Jon_Bmw
- Dangerous when thinking
- Posts: 7604
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Salisbury
Yes I can imagine it is very addictive, really looking forward to it now. I will try not to get sucked in by the big boys but build up slowly to a speed i'm comfortable running at. I used to have to do this when i started riding motocross - put up with damn 10 year olds hurtling past you doing insane things.
These are the things i've thought of taking so far, please add anything you think i might need:
2 or more cans of super unleaded(BP ultimate)
2 socket sets
Toolbox, Stanley knife, electrical tape, duct tape
Car with Ԛ¾ tank of fuel
Blankets
RAG!
Water and extra coolant
Oil(5 litres)
Trolley jack and two scissor jacks
Spare front brake pads
Copper grease
Wire?
Brake fluid
Auto tranny fluid
Foot pump, spare wheels/tyres?
Axle stands
Camera
Helmets x 2
Driving licenses x 3(both bits)
MOT cert.
Fire extinguisher
These are the things i've thought of taking so far, please add anything you think i might need:
2 or more cans of super unleaded(BP ultimate)
2 socket sets
Toolbox, Stanley knife, electrical tape, duct tape
Car with Ԛ¾ tank of fuel
Blankets
RAG!
Water and extra coolant
Oil(5 litres)
Trolley jack and two scissor jacks
Spare front brake pads
Copper grease
Wire?
Brake fluid
Auto tranny fluid
Foot pump, spare wheels/tyres?
Axle stands
Camera
Helmets x 2
Driving licenses x 3(both bits)
MOT cert.
Fire extinguisher
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Brian28
- E30 Zone Squatter
- Posts: 1596
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Bournemouth
Tyre pressure guage. Even if there is one built into the footpump, they tend not to me that accurate. Get there as early as you can, wander around and have a gas with the organisers/instructors, they will fill you in on anything about the circuit that's worth knowing and what bits to avoid, any tips for particular corners, driving conduct etc. Something else that you already seem to have twigged onto from your initial post, don't get drawn into the b*llshit some people spout about how fast, how late on the brakes, etc etc. It's your track day, as the guys above said take it at your pace and enjoy it. If you give it ten tenths on your first session, whats left for the second session? (Assuming that you make it to the second session!!). A fifteen minute slot is plenty, much more and you will be knackered and have no concentration left. Take it really handy on the session after luch and build up slowly to speed again. If you go out and try and go just as fast straight away with cold tyres, brakes, and without giving your brain a chance to warm up again you will prob bin it.
I've never driven an automatic so this is assumption rather than fact - if you follow a (good) manual box driver who is on the absolute limit into a corner, you won't have the same throttle control that he does to balance the car so chances are that you won't make it around the corner? That's probably a question rather than a statement as I've never driven one.
Oh- the motoross lid. I wore mine because I thought better venting etc with the open face. Because of the chin guard I couldn't see any of the dash guages or warning lights, so probably not such a good idea!
Its late and I'm rambling, 4 hours sleep last night due to 3 week old little bundle of joy ......
Cheers
brian
I've never driven an automatic so this is assumption rather than fact - if you follow a (good) manual box driver who is on the absolute limit into a corner, you won't have the same throttle control that he does to balance the car so chances are that you won't make it around the corner? That's probably a question rather than a statement as I've never driven one.
Oh- the motoross lid. I wore mine because I thought better venting etc with the open face. Because of the chin guard I couldn't see any of the dash guages or warning lights, so probably not such a good idea!
Its late and I'm rambling, 4 hours sleep last night due to 3 week old little bundle of joy ......
Cheers
brian
For sale - E30 320i racer project - sold.
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lancelot
- E30 Zone Newbie
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:00 pm
The guys have covered most things, however one thing I always take now is a couple of spare fan belts. Lost one at Oulton park, which ruined my day as I then had to troll around looking for one, pain in the backside for a Ԛ£5 part.......
Oh one final point worth considering. On your cooldown lap, do just that, stay off the brakes as much as you can, if you are going to get pad transfer, this is when it will happen.....
Oh one final point worth considering. On your cooldown lap, do just that, stay off the brakes as much as you can, if you are going to get pad transfer, this is when it will happen.....
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Taffy
- E30 Zone Regular
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Cardiff
If it's your 1st time then there are a few essential you need to do. Change the fluid, there are 2 schools of thought on this, buy cheap and change frequently or buy expensive and change less frequently, personally I go for the expensive stuff, there is a reason why something like Catrol SRF is Ԛ£40 retail and Motul is less than Ԛ£10. Front pads are also a must Mintex 1166 would be a good pad to start with and get some braided hoses and leave the mods at that, standard rear pads are fine, rear brakes do very littkle anyway, part of the reason why BTCC cars have small rears and HUGE fronts.
The MOST important advice you should heed is get some Tuition, you'll progress 10x faster and you'll be safer as well, the last advice is make sure you've got plenty of credit on the Visa as you will be doing a few more from this point onwards!
The MOST important advice you should heed is get some Tuition, you'll progress 10x faster and you'll be safer as well, the last advice is make sure you've got plenty of credit on the Visa as you will be doing a few more from this point onwards!
please contact admin with regard to sig
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Jon_Bmw
- Dangerous when thinking
- Posts: 7604
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Salisbury
Some very good points in there. The tyre pressure gauge, my brothers got one, so i'll steal that off him. I thinking about 30-32 psi all round? Also once the tyres are very warm after a fair few laps won't the tyre pressues be much upwards of the 30-32 psi, so I won't really know how I should be changin them. Or is it a case of checking them after the lunchtime interval when they have cooled?Brian28 wrote:Tyre pressure guage. Even if there is one built into the footpump, they tend not to me that accurate. Get there as early as you can, wander around and have a gas with the organisers/instructors, they will fill you in on anything about the circuit that's worth knowing and what bits to avoid, any tips for particular corners, driving conduct etc. Something else that you already seem to have twigged onto from your initial post, don't get drawn into the b*llshit some people spout about how fast, how late on the brakes, etc etc. It's your track day, as the guys above said take it at your pace and enjoy it. If you give it ten tenths on your first session, whats left for the second session? (Assuming that you make it to the second session!!). A fifteen minute slot is plenty, much more and you will be knackered and have no concentration left. Take it really handy on the session after luch and build up slowly to speed again. If you go out and try and go just as fast straight away with cold tyres, brakes, and without giving your brain a chance to warm up again you will prob bin it.
I've never driven an automatic so this is assumption rather than fact - if you follow a (good) manual box driver who is on the absolute limit into a corner, you won't have the same throttle control that he does to balance the car so chances are that you won't make it around the corner? That's probably a question rather than a statement as I've never driven one.
Oh- the motoross lid. I wore mine because I thought better venting etc with the open face. Because of the chin guard I couldn't see any of the dash guages or warning lights, so probably not such a good idea!
Its late and I'm rambling, 4 hours sleep last night due to 3 week old little bundle of joy ......
Cheers
brian
I would definatly agree with the whole balance thing with the auto, one is never quite sure what the slushbox is going to go, so i'll just have to suck it and see. Would much prefer a proper gearbox, thats the next job thats looming over my head.
Good point on the motocross lid, that hadn't crossed my mind, especially as i've got an oil pressure and boost gauge near the ashtray.
I'll have to try both helmets see which one I get on best with.Thanks mate.
Yeah I can imagine trying to get a fan belt is a bit of a nightmare, will have to check that over, make sure its good to go. Another good point about the brakes. So its best then to keep off the brakes on the final lap(cool down lap), what is pad transfer? Is it where they are so hot that, touching the discs gently glazes the pads, or have i got the wrong end of the wrong stick?lancelot wrote:The guys have covered most things, however one thing I always take now is a couple of spare fan belts. Lost one at Oulton park, which ruined my day as I then had to troll around looking for one, pain in the backside for a Ԛ£5 part.......
Oh one final point worth considering. On your cooldown lap, do just that, stay off the brakes as much as you can, if you are going to get pad transfer, this is when it will happen.....
Thanks
Some good advice aswell, I think i'm going to go for the motul to start with see how I get on and then maybe try the castrol SRF at a later date. A learning curve one could say. Problem with changing the pads is bedding them in before I get to the curcuit, I will not be able to cover sufficient milage in them before i get to the curcuit for other logistical reasons. Wheras my pads are already worn in. Decisions...Taffy wrote:If it's your 1st time then there are a few essential you need to do. Change the fluid, there are 2 schools of thought on this, buy cheap and change frequently or buy expensive and change less frequently, personally I go for the expensive stuff, there is a reason why something like Catrol SRF is Ԛ£40 retail and Motul is less than Ԛ£10. Front pads are also a must Mintex 1166 would be a good pad to start with and get some braided hoses and leave the mods at that, standard rear pads are fine, rear brakes do very littkle anyway, part of the reason why BTCC cars have small rears and HUGE fronts.
The MOST important advice you should heed is get some Tuition, you'll progress 10x faster and you'll be safer as well, the last advice is make sure you've got plenty of credit on the Visa as you will be doing a few more from this point onwards!
Thanks for all imput guys
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Taylor325i
- E30 Zone Camper
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland. Brilliant Red Tech II 325i.
Jon_Bmw wrote:Where would I get these, I can't imagine the dealer stocking them, south coast wheels or the like?Taylor325i wrote:Jon_Bmw wrote:
The problem with the team dynamics is they need a spacer and the bolts don't go that far into the hub which is giving me reservations about using them.
You should get longer wheel bolts for these wheels - you'll get away with bolts that are a bit too short on the road but it's just asking for trouble on the track. iirc they are only about Ԛ£1 / Ԛ£1.50 each.
Taylor.
Basically anywhere that sells aftermarket alloy wheels should be able to supply you with what you need. Best bet is to take one of your standard bolts with you so that you get the correct thread size and the correct collar profile.
Taylor.