If you had to build??

[6potWil6pot]

dont ge tme wrong

id choose an s14 over an m30 anyday of teh week

but its the cost of the things, you need new prop and diff and box etc and they guzzzle fuel too an where the fuck do u find someone breaking an m3!?

You'll be surprized! M3 S14s do come up for sale Its more the price of buying/fitting one!

[d6dph]

bloody hell adam. calm down fella.

[Fushion_Julz]

dont ge tme wrong

id choose an s14 over an m30 anyday of teh week

but its the cost of the things, you need new prop and diff and box etc and they guzzzle fuel too an where the fuck do u find someone breaking an m3!?

Keep your eye out...they ain't *that* rare!
My M3 is more econeomical than my M20 engined 325....
True...
I get well over 25mpg from the M3 (nearly 28mpg on a recent trip to Normandy), but it takes a long motorway trip to get the average on the 325 even close!

If you go for an M30 you'll need prop, box, diff, etc, too...plus struts, brakes rad, etc...

Just buy a M3 "breaker" with a half-decent motor and all the parts are there already.

[Dan318-is]

the thing is also, i want to work my way up through the power ranges rather than jump striaght in at the deep end if you get me? iv only got a poxy little m42 engine at the moment (well i had one), and dont get me wrong the thing goes some but i still crave an s14 over anything else

except s38

an m30 is also a lot cheaper to buy than an s14 is it not?

[6potWil6pot]

Hmm just wondering if i had the Ԛ£ for an M5 or TVR, id probably pick the M5 as its a more "balanced" car and im not that concerned with smoking anything less than a Hypercar. Both would have silly running costs tho, altho TVR probably that extra bit more

Personally rwd doesnt matter to me all that much so realistically id look for a hot hatch, e.g Mini Cooper S or new Golf GTi, maybe even Mazda RX-8 if i wanna draw some lines in the road Mind you i remember beating one on the way home after buying that Red M50 E30 of mine...

[6potWil6pot]

the thing is also, i want to work my way up through the power ranges rather than jump striaght in at the deep end if you get me? iv only got a poxy little m42 engine at the moment (well i had one), and dont get me wrong the thing goes some but i still crave an s14 over anything else

except s38

an m30 is also a lot cheaper to buy than an s14 is it not?

Na! I went from a 318iS to a M50 engined E30 with 192bhp+, just respect the power! I'll be honest i DID fall off the road a few times, didnt hit anything (apart from shattering my rad that time...) but i was being silly so i deserved it!

[Andy335Touring]

produces more power (and more than a std M30 which it is significantly lighter than)..It also means you can loose more weight from the car rather than put it on...

How does an S14 put out more power than an M30 ? Unless your talking 2.5 S14 which is very rare and/or expensive ?

Your not comparing like for like engines, M30 is a cheap torquey(sp?) engine, S14 is comparabley very expensive and lacks the grunt of the M30 that makes it such a good engine for day to day driving.

The weight diffrance is only about 35-40kgs

http://forums.mwerks.com/zerothread?id=912412

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... adid=89822

http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/topic.a ... C_ID=10493

[Dan318-is]

i jsut love the whole way the s14 was bred

but your rite andy, an m30 is a much more realistic cheap option that you can live with day to day and still have some fun

40 kilos is like another passenger isnt it? so not that much really

[Andy335Touring]

40kgs is about 6 stone in old money.

Sorry if i sounded negative or if i was having a go in my last post, the S14 is cracking little engine but the person who started this thread was trying to compair 2.7 with 3.5 not an S14 which is a very differant engine.

[Dan318-is]

i completley agree

someone like me is a perfect example

i really would love to do an s14 conversion but honestly can i affford it? its so many parts and exotic costs. im not the birghtess spark when it comes to cars. m30 information and parts are readily available and are not too hard to come bye, and the advice from people on here is superb

plus also it would be good to do a first conversion on somethign that people are familier with rather than do an s14 drop an fuck it!!

i also prefer the m30 as its chain driven

[stevetigger]

40kgs is about 6 stone in old money.

Sorry if i sounded negative or if i was having a go in my last post, the S14 is cracking little engine but the person who started this thread was trying to compair 2.7 with 3.5 not an S14 which is a very differant engine.

It was me, yes s14 is a great engine but you hit the nail on the head there Andy............2.7 or 3.5?? That was the question. I still think 3.5 is my best bet!!

[Jhonno]

s14 is chain driven..

[stevetigger]

wtf? m30 doesnt weigh 300kgs more

Nope, it doesn't..but by the time you add the extra weight for the suspension, brakes, cooling, etc, it will come to more than a lightened standard car....

I didn't know you needed new suspension or brakes with a 3.5 conversions??

[Andy335Touring]

You don't, i have standard discs/pads and is fine for road use, you will want(but not need) some better springs and shocks like H+R, Spax, etc nothing fancy or expensive unless you have the buget for it ?

[Jhonno]

yeah - you dont need anything more fancy than what you would use for a tuned m20 or what you might run anyways

[Dan318-is]

s14 is chain driven..

but an m20 2.5/2.7 isnt

[Jhonno]

s14 is chain driven..

but an m20 2.5/2.7 isnt

ahhh i thought you were still comparing m30 s14

[Dan318-is]

no engine is comparible to s14

except s38

[Fushion_Julz]

You don't, i have standard discs/pads and is fine for road use, you will want(but not need) some better springs and shocks like H+R, Spax, etc nothing fancy or expensive unless you have the buget for it ?

Andy, out of interest, what does your car weigh (kerbside) and what are the percentage corner weights?

[Andy335Touring]

I've not had it corner weighted, the 325 Touring is 1270kgs(70 kg more than the 2dr but its my only car so the Touring is more practical) so i'm guessing its now around 1300-1310kgs ?

[Fushion_Julz]

I'm impressed, chap....
If it really only weighs +40Kgs over standard, including the extra engine, plus it's extra water and oil, and the increased rad size, gearbox, etc and ancillieries I take my hat off to you!

However, having an extra 50kgs almost all over the front axle is bound to affect the handling somewhat...Have you adjusted the front geometry to compensate at all?

Forgive the questions, but I'm really interested...

[stevetigger]

I think the e30 is light enough to have a 3.5 effective of great potental!!



http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/bmwchng.html


http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/bmw.htm


Quite light compared to modern bmw's!!
Do anybody know the weight of a cab??

[Dan318-is]

i dont htink any geomery change is needed?

you have to remember that andys m30 is in position 3 which is very close to the bulkhead, closer perhaps than a stock m20 engine, so despite the weight its actually further back

if you properly tuned a 3.5 an hit 270-300 brake out of it, i think it would still handle exceptionally with a decent suspesnion/brake/tyre set up

i think it would take a driver of high prestige and tolerance to notice a change in handling of a car with forty extra kilos or so, bear in mind thats about a small person.

who notices a difference with one person in there car?

i assume we all do when theres two or three people?

[stevetigger]

I'm impressed, chap....
If it really only weighs +40Kgs over standard, including the extra engine, plus it's extra water and oil, and the increased rad size, gearbox, etc and ancillieries I take my hat off to you!

However, having an extra 50kgs almost all over the front axle is bound to affect the handling somewhat...Have you adjusted the front geometry to compensate at all?

Forgive the questions, but I'm really interested...

I think you decrease rad size for this conversion!! Weight wise I mean!!

[stevetigger]

http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/e30.html


The overall weight of e30's!!

[Andy335Touring]

I started driving it on the old M-tech suspension and it felt the same as before, may be if i could have driven a standard 325 Touring back to back with mine i might have felt a differance ?

Also the ride height at the front didn't change as far as i can tell.

I have now changed the springs and shocks to make it more sure footed, less roll in the corners, at the end of the day the old suspension was 16 odd years old so it wasn't at its best.

[Moofles]

Adam - Dont apologise for holding an opinion. Controversey leads to the best disccussions.

Interesting point about TVR engine rebuilds though. To be fair, back in the day when they were using the RV8 there was never any problem, it was only when the took the engine design in house that they started to get a few issues.

In fact, the Speed Six Cerbs were generally fine, it was a problem with the finger followers on the early Tuscan Speed Sixes that lead to the rebuilds. I'm pretty sure its been sorted by now.

haha cheers russ! i'm apologising for having a go at simon when he was joking really, not the stuff about the engines - i do stick by that i'm afraid...

i'm calm now! lol!

[Simon13]

interesting this, are we forgetting the S38 engined hartge? 6 made but the Alpina B6S 66 made and a tuned M30 in an M3 shell. What did they do to the suspension? Fitted aircon springs........And i have spoken to some priveledged individuals who have driven one of these alpinas. And they noticed no difference in handling. Or any of this nose heavyness that bmw said a 6 pot M3 would have.

So the evidence is there from the start! that hartge/alpina made cars that did exactly what bmw said they would not!

[Dan318-is]

hartge ian has a hartge h35 with the m30 lump in

he told me it handles like its on rails an that u cant tell about the extra weight

mind you that is on hartge suspension

simon got any pictures of this alpina, iv never seen it

[Toby_Unna]

I'm impressed, chap....
If it really only weighs +40Kgs over standard, including the extra engine, plus it's extra water and oil, and the increased rad size, gearbox, etc and ancillieries I take my hat off to you!

gearbox is the same mate just a different bellhousing pattern

prop, diff brakes suspension have no need to be heavier than m20 stuff

most engine ancillaries (alt, power steering pump etc) are the same physical size, and i have used a 316i spec battery for a long time with no issues

late m30 has no need for oil cooler and oil lines that the m20 2.5 has

the weight difference is due almost completely to that of the engine and fluids. (i.e. a lot less than people tend to guess at)

handling? flat out on a racetrack, i'm sure you'd feel the extra weight on the front. on the road? i doubt it.