B3 3.2 Touring its suddenly getting old

[DanThe]

Generally its only engines that have had long service intervals and shite oil that have worn sprockets

[Andyboy]

Indeed - a new chain on the existing sprockets will see it right. On my 730i (with 295'000 miles), the cam sprocket looked fine and there was only slight wear on the crank sprocket. I replaced the chain and tensioner rail only. On the 318iS (with nearly 180'000), again the sprockets looked perfect.
It's the crank sprocket that wears first - post up a pic of yours....but I'm sure it'll be fine.

[Simon13]

The machine shop phoned tonday guess what?!......................................the heads cracked.

My money is now is this is why the engine ran fine when first started and then started to run rough as it cracked when it heated up.

Anyhow i'm kinda happy about that really, as my gut feeling was i hadn't found a real cause for it to run rough but this one will do me! And i've a good spare head from M52 323i

Next step? headwork or not bother on the stock head

[DanThe]

Id probably just have the casting seams smoothed out

[Simon13]

hows the ECU?

[DanThe]

Still a virgin, but not for long

[Dezzy]

hows the ECU?

Don't ask mate

[bss325i]

Take it to Ike and see what he will charge to replicate it like the C2 head.

[darren_mk]

Take it to Ike and see what he will charge to replicate it like the C2 head.

Seems the right thing to do now its all stripped down

[Simon13]

So i've picked up the cracked pina head and compared it with another head i've got



Alpina head





Donor M52 2.5 head from a 65k 323i nikasil failure. They have the same casting numbers. The trader i bought the car from also gave me another head from a 328i, its again the same.


They appear to me to be the same, bar the port work. So from my genius i think that the heads are the same for the following engines M50 2.5 vanos M52 2.5 and 2.8 vanos and this US spec donk.

The heads must be good? the 325i was 190bhp and this pina 265, so the heads must flow very well is my thought on these engines





Donor head stripped down, i dropped it at the machine shop today for a clean up, my dad can re face it. The head doesn't need a pressure test as i stripped it from a nikasil failed engine that had been in the familly from new. The car it came from was the same colour so i hope its a good omen!





I've also stripped the alpina head down and heres a better shot of the weld (lower left port) and this is where its cracked. I guess the repair didn't hold very long if at all.





Now i'm being a bit pikey but these are very very clean if not new valves taken from the pina head. Can i use them in the other head?! Doing some reading from the history revealed that munich legends took the head off in 2009. Head gasket failed and the valve seats were all cracked on the exhuast side. So they had new seats fitted and valves. I'll need to carry the valve springs over as RealOEM tells me different part numbers compared to a stock M52. Makes sense as the camshafts are differen specs on each engine.


This is the 3rd time in 3 years the head has been off. 3rd time lucky? i hope so







Some shots of the inlet port "work" best i can do.







And the exhaust side. Alpina make a lovely job of their head work! I'll get some shots of the stock ports once the donor head is clean. Then i need to get the same replicated on to the donor head. I'll need this if we want it to make its factory power which we do!!




is now the time to change any seals etc in the vanos? do i undo these 10mm bolts to get into the unit as such?!






Stripped this lot off earlier, now BMW want £42 for the chain and £37 and £11.74 for the guide rails - which are made by bosch

GSF will supply a chain and rails for £70 made by febi bilstein, gotto go for this i think.





spare sprocket compared to the current one, i can't see any difference. The spare has covered 65,000 this current alot alot more!! What do we think?




cleaned the cover up, i've done some other donkey work cleaning other stuff a tickle







It bit worn, i guess this wears down the chain links a bit also?

[e301988325i]

Loads of VANOS wrote ups on the web

http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures ... cedure.htm

[Andyboy]

The sprockets are perfect, and I daresay the chain will go again. Make sure the new chain (if you bother) is a Jwis one - look for the logo on the links. I've had plenty of Jwis chains in Febi boxes - I think Febi just act as distributors for other stuff rather than actually make it.

I'd leave the Vanos unit alone if it didn't rattle.

[Kos]

get some vanos seals from dan

[Simon13]

i've got some he sent them with the headgasket.

[Simon13]

Well today i went to the machine shop about getting the head work re done. This lot don't do halfs and have said. Alpina made a good job/know what they are doing but it could be improved somewhat. Its not cheap to do properly, but we'd all guess that. The stock chamber shape is very very good and the heads overall are pretty good. Well done BMW in the 24 valve heads then

He thought looking at the 2 heads there could be a difference of upto 30HP in terms of what could be gained lost with the right camshaft also.

He'd like to look at the special inlets these engines have also. On about removing the valve guides also. Using a special machine that will allow him to get every port the same size behind the valve exactly the same size and a special thing again to cut the valve seats in a special way to get a perfect seat. which is £10 a valve and has to be done really. Its all a bit beyond me and all in its £800 he recons. So thats for all the port work, seating the valves and a refacing.

I'd like to but its alot of money and i'd also have to wait until the new year. I trust his opinion but i wouldn't mind others thoughts on this. I said i just want the engine to be as it was, they're of the opinion that if you want the work replicated/ or done as such on another head they can do a better job than alpina. He said theres more knowledge tools etc around now than in the 90's. Even with the cams being quite tame on alpinas.

He does heads for race/drag engines and often the heads are sent off to camshaft companys who flow the heads and build the camshaft to suit this. All interesting! exhaust and inlets are all tuned around the headwork and cam choices. Way beyond my understanding! Others can do the work of course for cheaper but this is a bit of dark art no?

Is it worth it? probably not but.............we could end up with something a little bit better than it started life as.

[Simon13]

A good one of these engines despite the milege is going to have a good value? especially if it makes good power once its rebuilt

[e301988325i]

A good one of these engines despite the milege is going to have a good value? especially if it makes good power once its rebuilt

That's it, gently talk yourself into it, it'd be wrong to put the head back on and end up with a lesser engine than original.

[B7]

Mmmm. Tis a lot of dough but if the work is done right then its the difference between a nice one and a truly sorted one.

Surely you have to look at the complete picture. Is the shell really nice? Could this be one of the nicest out there? If so then its worth paying the money.

If the rest of the car is tired, I'd be tempted to just tickle the new head to pina spec and put it back together?

[Jhonno]

I would say it was worth it.. IMO I couldn't bring myself to rebuild to a lower spec than factory, however I'd happily pay a little extra for an improvement. If you are going to do something...

My 2p.

[Jhonno]

Mmmm. Tis a lot of dough but if the work is done right then its the difference between a nice one and a truly sorted one.

Surely you have to look at the complete picture. Is the shell really nice? Could this be one of the nicest out there? If so then its worth paying the money.

If the rest of the car is tired, I'd be tempted to just tickle the new head to pina spec and put it back together?

Beaten to it..

[darren_mk]

I agree with the above, but i always ask myself if the car is a keeper or just a project to move on after a while.

[Simon13]

The rest of the car is far from tired! The interior is amazing for the milege. Bodywork has had a full and decent paint job bar the roof. Rims are pretty good. How it drives? we don't know!

[B7]

How it drives is no problem (apart from gearbox) as thats all easily fixed. If the shell and interior is that good, go for it

[DanThe]

I would say it was worth it.. IMO I couldn't bring myself to rebuild to a lower spec than factory, however I'd happily pay a little extra for an improvement. If you are going to do something...

This is how I would usually see it, but £800 is big bucks for head fettling! 30hp really? I would be very surprised TBH

[Simon13]

with the right camshafts, as they say the power is in the cylinder head.

The place i went are a serious place, i know everyone says this and that but i'd be very inclinded to take what they say. I'm just not good at explaining what he told me.

its really 560 for the port work and 240 to re seat the valves as i see it.

[Kos]

i've had 30-35 bhp gains out of a CVH head, i'm sure that that the head work will give the turd power better than factory

[Jhonno]

I think you might be surprised Dan..

Headwork with the right cam - I think could be the key to Lee's rather good M30 dyno figures..

[Andyboy]

Alpina tested the 3.2 engine on their dyno after experimenting with various other heads BMW gave them for nothing. They developed the 4.6iS engine in the X5 - they know what they're doing. Head porting is very tricky - on stuff like Ford Pintos, the most obvious head porting tricks don't work and actually reduce power.

This car has done 181'000 miles, and you don't yet know if it burns oil or has another bottom end issue. The £800 head job won't add 1p to the value of the car because it's not a genuine Alpina head. Just clean up the ports with a dremmel yourself, skim the face and bolt her all together.
I daresay the original head could be repaired by the likes of Corry's.

[Morat]

Andyboy makes a valid point.... it's got to be worth getting a quote for fixing the original head before you make the decision, surely? If it's not possible then fair enough, but the original head is what will give this car its value back.

[Simon13]

I'll point out the original alpina head has been welded already and its cracked AGAIN for the second time. There will be no 3rd bite on the cherry for it. I'm not going down that route and getting biten on the arse for it. I'd rather sort a know good head.

The trader guy spent nearly £700 getting the old head welded and "sorted" out. Maybe it was ok but when the previous goons put it back together they cooked it? These heads aren't stamped up in a place like an E30 alpina head where you can see it. Its all right at the back of the heads.

This guy pointed out that Alpina clearly know what they are doing, he can see that. But also they built hundreds of these engines. 340 B3's plus the B10 e39s used the same engine so to some extent like BMW, alpina have to give the same warranty on the engine and again there is a comprimise or they wouldn't make any money. I bet a mars bar if you sat the Alpina bods down they'd admit theres more power to be had out of the heads on these.

I know it doesn't really make sense but i didn't buy it to worry about the big milege, i bought it because its a "happening turd" and i want it to be the best i can make it and have some fun in using an ultra rare uber wagon as a daily.

[E30BeemerLad]

Go with your gut instinct on it Bert, yeah it's a fair few dollars but worth it for a once off spend and hopefully some more Buchloe ponies.

Did you sell that red turd?

[Simon13]

yeah the red car is gone happy in its new home. Paid for M20 bits on 2door!

My gut is do it, but a large part says bollocks bolt the stock head down and drive it

[Dezzy]

My gut is do it, but a large part says bollocks bolt the stock head down and drive it

I'd be tempted to throw the known to be good head on it and drive it!

I'd hate to chuck loads of money at the head, only to find out its hiding more drama's.

[bss325i]

A man like you with an illness for tinkering could always bolt a "worked" head on later down the line.....











....just a thought.

[Rodderz]

I think you would have to be mad to spend that sort of money on a non original head!

... The only argument is that we all waste money on cars!