Accident-damaged 1990 325i Sport

[bmwe30mtech]

I dont think we know enough to decide! Surely only the owner who has looked under the bonnet etc can decide what they want to do/spend.

[Brianmoooore]

brianmore. if you fixed that car with panels, and lump hammers it will still look hanging. rust will set in etc.

The panels I have in stock for the express purpose of replacing damaged ones on cars I buy. I said panel beating hammers, not lump hammers. With these you can shrink and expand metal and get it back to just about as new. And don't think that some news cars don't leave the factory or dealership without having had some panel beating either.
Rust set in? I remove all paint from the affected area, treat any rust with phosphoric acid, use polyurethane sealants on seams and joins, and use correctly applied primers, top coats, stone chip coatings etc. and reckon my finish, rust wise, is every bit as good as BMWs original, as well as being 15 years newer.

[stevetigger]

brianmore. if you fixed that car with panels, and lump hammers it will still look hanging. rust will set in etc.

The panels I have in stock for the express purpose of replacing damaged ones on cars I buy. I said panel beating hammers, not lump hammers. With these you can shrink and expand metal and get it back to just about as new. And don't think that some news cars don't leave the factory or dealership without having had some panel beating either.
Rust set in? I remove all paint from the affected area, treat any rust with phosphoric acid, use polyurethane sealants on seams and joins, and use correctly applied primers, top coats, stone chip coatings etc. and reckon my finish, rust wise, is every bit as good as BMWs original, as well as being 15 years newer.

Do you do body repairs and spray's??

[Brianmoooore]

you should never be able to completely remove evidence it was written off...even if it's inspected and passes, it should always, always be known that it was a write-off - that's the point. Perhaps people's perceptions of write-offs need to change though.

Don't agree with this at all, simply because Joe publics' perception of a write off is so wrong.
I have one Touring, the M50, which was accident damaged when it was three years old.(Can tell by the date codes on varios bits). The level of damage far exceeded that of the subject car of this thread at the front, and there was serious rear corner damage as well, but, because of the value of the car at the time, it was not written off.
Another E30 I bought recently was a cat C write off, but the total damage was fairly light damage to the nearside wing, starting just behind the wheel, and extending to the front half of the nearside door.
We've bought the odd SRi Cavalier as well, as cat C write offs, as we have someone that takes the red top engines off us. One of these had a broken rear light, and a tiny dent in the bodywork just at the edge of the cluster. If we'd decided to put this one back on the road, why on earth should it have been stigmatised by a write off tag?

[Brianmoooore]

Do you do body repairs and spray's??

No, I confine myself to bolt on panels and the bits that don't really show.
I have (had*) a tame bodywork man / sprayer for the pretty bits.

* He's just emigrated to Spain.

[Moofles]

Perhaps people's perceptions of write-offs need to change though.

why on earth should it have been stigmatised by a write off tag?

That's what I said.

[M5pilot]

moofles.

you said something i agree with!

brianmore. if you fixed that car with panels, and lump hammers it will still look hanging. rust will set in etc. for the amount of labour and materials you will put in to fixing it, you could just frag it for alot less effort and make more money.

sal. shut up. i dont think everything is a shitter. when theres a nice example on here i will say. my point is that if someone buys this car, they are not going to spend the green on repairing it properely. it will probably be bodged, and then they and be passed on as a nice example. is anyone going to buy this and spend 2k plus on getting it fixed properly?? well no. so this 15 year old car should be a breaker.

i dont want to get into the debate of the early sports, and other "nice" e30"s being fraged. if a car is scrap then why damage your wallet buy polishing a turd?

[Jhonno]

jon i think you maybe look at it at a more detached and 'sensible' level as you are used to fragging turds so look at the profit that can be made from it..

cars which you would frag others might save cause they would rather do that possibly for sensible money rather than make a profit

[beardymat]

just thought id add my two penceworth

this car looks too good to break,the damage is fairly localised and you may get away without any jig work,the car in my sig pic is a lot worse and had i not already bought that then i would certainly be making a very sensible offer on this car.

i have been repairing cars at main dealers for years and you would be surprised how many cars on fourcourts have been bumped to some degree or other.i started out as a trainee at my local bmw dealer when the e30 was just being phazed out and we repaired a lot of cars with far worse damage.in some cases we removed all panelwork from the bulkhead forward.

i now work for myself buying and repairing "written off" vehicles allbeit a lot newer stuff.the cars are repaired to the same standards that you get in insurance approved bodyshops and the jigging equipment i use is far superior to any other i have used because when your reputation relies on you turning out a good job then you use the best you can get.

i resent the notion that just because you buy a damaged car you are going to bodge it up,some of us just think differently and just want to save a good example of what is becoming a rare car,as i have said my own sport is in far worse condition but i will save it using my superior jig and all the same techniques i was taught at the bmw dealers just because i want to,and when its finished(finally,had it a while already) and looking fresh i will get enormous satisfaction from the fact that it was all down to me!

[Simon13]

beardymat, shame u don't live down south, my sport needs paint and rust work!

[keith52]

whats the difference between replacing inner / outer arches removing floor pans and jacking points , fitting a good engine.box/diff ( these seem to be the standard repairs )and repairing a damaged front end, nothing imo as long as its done properly

[Simon]

whats the difference between replacing inner / outer arches removing floor pans and jacking points , fitting a good engine.box/diff ( these seem to be the standard repairs )and repairing a damaged front end, nothing imo as long as its done properly

Well said.

[JOSEMI]

beardmat wrote

i resent the notion that just because you buy a damaged car you are going to bodge it up,some of us just think differently and just want to save a good example of what is becoming a rare car,as i have said my own sport is in far worse condition but i will save it using my superior jig and all the same techniques i was taught at the bmw dealers just because i want to,and when its finished(finally,had it a while already) and looking fresh i will get enormous satisfaction from the fact that it was all down to me!

respect mate, I believe so too

Jose

[pacerpete]

A car that has had structural damage and been repaired is never right , the turd in question will guaranteed have a wrinkle by the fuse box at the very least, yes it could be made tidy and presentable if you had the skill and the bits (i believe you can get a M tech 2 front bumper and spoiler off ebay in a colour of your choice for Ԛ£10.50!) and if you don't put a price on a week of your time. The sad fact ,nice and all as it appears to have been it is not a low mileage 1 owner sport evo , its a 325 sport that has had its innings and was at best worth Ԛ£2500 to Ԛ£3000 before its spank.
Even if Paul Daniels repairs it , it is still HPI positive and if you are lucky some paddy may give you Ԛ£1800 for it. With a bit of patience (assuming all the morsels are nice ) it will break to about Ԛ£1500, why go to all the aggro to repair it ?. My hiab is waiting !

[beardymat]

once again pacerpete misses the point

i resent the notion that just because you buy a damaged car you are going to bodge it up,some of us just think differently and just want to save a good example of what is becoming a rare car,as i have said my own sport is in far worse condition but i will save it using my superior jig and all the same techniques i was taught at the bmw dealers just because i want to,and when its finished(finally,had it a while already) and looking fresh i will get enormous satisfaction from the fact that it was all down to me!

to some people its not all about greed and making money and so it makes little or no difference if it shows up on vcar, its more about the personal satisfaction gained from returning this car to its former condition.

it was obviously well cared for and 130K is not really that bad for one of these so it deserves to be saved.im still thinking of making an offer on it to stop narrow minded people like you from getting their hands on it.

[pacerpete]

Sorry Beardymat , you are obviously easily satisfied .Living and paying bills and enjoying myself are much higher on my list of priorities than camping in a lockup for a week having my hands stuck together with P40 and not being able to sleep with arceye.
If the car was as stated a low mileage 1 owner sport evo yes it is worthwhile , but it is a high mileage dolphin grey 325 that is easily replaceable .
Go on Beardymat buy the turd, the owner now thinks its a real classic and thanks to all you 'restorers' probably wants over a grand for it, repair it and start a thread on the trials, tribulations and expense of bringing a turd back from the dead, i need some entertaining! .
P.S if you need any bits i'm fragging a fully loaded 1 lady owner 325, it has head/ gasket issues , or maybe you want another project ? it seems such a shame to break it !

[beardymat]

Sorry Beardymat , you are obviously easily satisfied .Living and paying bills and enjoying myself are much higher on my list of priorities than camping in a lockup for a week having my hands stuck together with P40 and not being able to sleep with arceye.

peter peter peter!!!

if you knew anything about me you would know im anything but easily satisfied, i happen to be quite fussy.you would also know that i repair damaged salvage to enable me to live, pay bills and enjoy myself!

and if you stick your hands together with p40 and get arceye then youre doing it wrong

you go ahead and buy youre nice low milage one owner non vcar cars, and be happy in the knowledge that you dont know anything about the two chassis legs inner wings and front panel it had replaced by the insurance company when it was 6 months old after the one lady owners son took it out for a spin.............. literally!!

[pacerpete]

Part of my whole point is a car that has had structural damage is never right, whether it is some wiring routed incorrectly, a missing grommet,overspray, dirt in the paint , no rust proofing or something more worrying like being dimensionally wrong or poor welding etc, there are always clues to be found.
I think i could count on one hand the amount of jobs i have had done by body shops (and there have been lots) that i would consider done to my standard i.e you couldn't tell where it was repaired whereas i could write a book about the gash repairs i have seen come from so called main dealer type bodyshops.
I will be the first to admit i do not have the skill or patience to do high quality bodywork that is why i pay 'professionals', but i do have the skill to tell whats right and what is wrong.
While there are plenty of similar undamaged 325s out there for reasonable money why become a martyr especially when there is no financial gain.
If you really must immerse yourself in a rusty e30 , why not use your talents on my '86 B6 3.5 , it needs a o/s/r arch and inner wheel arch cash waiting for someone who can do a proper repair !

[Fushion_Julz]

I know neither of you...

However, I can see both points of view...
Beardy views the car as more than just a collection of (possibly) valuable parts and as a potential classic vehicle that is still useable as a daily driver with some fun to be had.
Pete views the car as a goner...more valuable as a collection of parts cluttering up his garage for an indeterminate amount of time to service the huge number of E30s still around.

Pete: You forget, though, that it takes time and space (not to mention a little knowledge, skill and patience) to break a car and make enough of a profit to make the task worthwhile. You say it isn't worth repairing because it won't be done properly, yet you have what you consider a "classic" B6, that others might view as a rot-box waiting to be parted out...

One rule for all, and all that?

[paulj]

fix it dude.... its to young to die

[Moofles]

You say it isn't worth repairing because it won't be done properly, yet you have what you consider a "classic" B6, that others might view as a rot-box waiting to be parted out...

I think his point was that the B6 is [a LOT] rarer? i would think someone who viewed the b6 as a breaker would DEFINITELY view that sport as a breaker...

i can't believe i've defended pete! he never even let me cut his barnet! (granted, it was before i was born... )

[Fushion_Julz]

& my point was that one prsons' "classic" is another persons' breaker...

Pete obviously regards his B6 as a classic worthy of restoration...

However, my colleague, here at work, who is 5years into restoring an Aston Martin DB4, considers it just an old E30...NOw, if it had racing pedigree or a previous famous owner history....

How "classic" does a car need to be to be saved?

Will that sport, in 5years be worth saving?

[Moofles]

& my point was that one prsons' "classic" is another persons' breaker...

oh i definitely agree - i was just saying that it was pretty unlikely that a person who didn't view a b6 as a 'classic' would actually consider a sport a 'classic'...just saying the two can't be viewed independently, that's all.

[pacerpete]

Actually i regard my B6 as a way of having some fun and making some money , the fact that i was saving it from a fate worse than death by ignorant council vermin was not high on my list of prorities as i handed over Ԛ£1500 to the unwashed peasants !.
Anyone who knows me knows i play with proper chariots and i do it properly , i can afford to do this because i don't waste precious time and money on lost causes !

[M5pilot]

Is that B6 red? You bough it some time ago. proper shitter that was if its the same one.

Have you got a 3.23 diff for my 3.8 shitter?

[Fushion_Julz]

Pete: Money isn't everything and it can't buy you happiness (unless happiness is a McLaren F1, of course)

Some, though, might say that your B6, needing structural bodywork parts, is never gonna be perfect or right. Why not re-shell it? You can get a decent shell for Ԛ£100ish and you have all the mechanical and goody bits to stuff onto it!

The reason you don't is because you value the B6 as more valuable as "original" (however original a conversion can be)..

The Sport that is the subject of this thread could, to the owner, also be a valuable car....Sure, he could get a decent shell and put his "sport" bits into it, but it will never be a sport!

In 5 or 10 years, when the number of running E30s might be starting to diminish drastically his decision to repair (or not) will be telling in the wallet department (if that is why he has the car: to earn money)...

If, though, he just wants a nice, original (albeit repaired) sport to tool about in, then the financial aspect is less important.

FWIW, the damage doesn't look terminal...My 02 racer (which had no value as a shell) was worse than that more than once and was resurrected to live, run and win again!

EDIT: I think I'm in a similar position...My 325 is starting to look a bit on the shabby side...It needs a proper bodyshop to give it some attention...
However, even a half-decent respray is likely to cost more than a 4dr SE is worth.
But the dilemma is: The rest of the car is probably on of the best M20s I've ever driven...Engine, box, diff are all not only perfect, but better than many "mint" cars I've seen or driven....Never had it on a RR, but I'm willing to bet the motor is pushing out at least it's rated power, perhaps more (no modifications, that I know of)...The car also has 4 electric windows, electric roof, headlamp washers, OBC, 15"BBS and has had a new Magnex SS exhaust (except for a standard OE centre box). It has also had new subframe bushes, front inner balls, and has a fairly unusual blue cloth Sports interior with MTec 1 wheel (drivers seat needs a small re-trim)...It passed an MoT in Sept. with just the bushes/balls needed.
With so much going for it, I'm reluctant to break the car....But it is gonna need a spray if I want to keep it for much longer...So do I bite the bullet and invest in a car that, at book, is worth perhaps Ԛ£1k and end up with it owing me Ԛ£2k, or do I break it?

[pacerpete]

Julz you've answered your own question sell the 4 door and buy a better one.
Yes Sal the red turd was rescued form high wycombe (much wrongness ). It had genuine 16" shitzers(nasty) which were sold for more than i paid for a set of 7 + 8 pinas, it had a 4 door standard leather trim (?) which was sold for more than a mint 2 door sport black leather cost me . It had warped front discs (big alpina brakes) but i lucked upon some mint discs. The real party piece was the electric fan wired up to the ignition coil !, the car had to be stalled in gear otherwise you couldn't turn it off .. I have replaced the cracked dash, converted the manual roof to electric, fitted a map light rear view mirror, fitted a period blaupunkt bremen with the hifi pack speakers and tweeters, done some repairs to the front 'jacking pads'(not P40!).
The car has had money spent , and has a recent complete genuine Alpina exhaust and recent correct alpina springs and bilsteins. I have also bought a genuine new front spoiler and the correct badges (f+r Ԛ£160 !).
Jobs still to be done include under bonnet detailing, painting and fitting the front spoiler and a proper repair on the o/s /r wheel arch and paint on that side. When finished it will be a very tidy nice spec rare car and because of that my toils will be rewarded and i am guessing it will be worth about Ԛ£6000 . Alternatively i could have spent/wasted my time and money rebuilding a twisted recorded 325!

[Fushion_Julz]

Julz you've answered your own question sell the 4 door and buy a better one

Define better, given that everything other than the paintwork is superb on mine, already...

Having read this forum for several months, now, I have seen/heard all the tales of woe with cracked heads, broken suspension, expensive bodges, etc, etc, etc....My car is free of all of those. It was owned and maintened by MJF engineering prior to me prising it out of Mark's mitts a year ago cos I needed a car fast!
I know it's history...I know it has been well maintained, mechanically, and I am sure that it will not let me down in that respect.

Where do you suggest I find another car that will be as mechanically superb?
I know that I *might* be lucky, but equally might be just as unlucky....

Perhaps "better the devil you know"

[shiddot]

The car has now been sold, so no more PM's please

Thanks for the entertaining thread!

Merry Christmas & a happy new year to you all.

Cheers,

Matt.

[Simon]

Thanks for the update!