Spin from classic car dealers, why do they bother?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:44 pm

I've had my eye out for a white convertible all summer, I've not found one, but then I've put little effort into it so I'm not surprised.

This one caught my eye in May on Pistonheads, mainly because it has the Cardinal red interior that I already have and plan to pop into the wanted white convertible.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2678801.htm

I first saw it in May, but the asking price was soppy, so ignored it really. However I contacted the seller in July as it was still being advertised, and asked if the price was right, saying it was probably worth more like £5000.

Heres his reply :

From: Martin Daly
To: Paul Ivatts
Sent: Monday, 18 July, 2011 9:55:28
Subject: RE: 'BMW 320i Cabriolet' at PistonHeads.com

Dear Paul,
Sold last week for £7500. to a BMW fanatic.
In any event we would never reduce any TOP car by 30%.
Top examples are very hard to find, and 90% offered normally for sale are DOGS.!!

He followed it up with :

Dear Paul,
I wish you luck anyway, i doubt if you will ever find one as good for £5K.
we paid over £6K for this car, only because of its condition.
if we had had it on sale for more than 6 months we would have put its price up.!

Regards,
Martin Daly.
The School Garage
International.

I see its still for sale, the advert being renewed every month. The classic is full of this sort of hype, why do they bother?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:54 pm

Martin Daly........any relation to Arfa???

Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:56 pm

jacko wrote:Martin Daly........any relation to Arfa???

Arthur Daly more like!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:13 pm

I agree with the OP, a 320i automatic is never going to be worth much more than £5K in this climate, both weather and economic-wise!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:58 pm

I'll mail him later and offer him 4.5k. Then when he replies I'll say that i was told it was sold.

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:08 pm

Speedtouch wrote:I agree with the OP, a 320i automatic is never going to be worth much more than £5K in this climate, both weather and economic-wise!

I still think thats strong money
Give it a year or so it will be "Just another 100k 320 auto"
My guess is he has it on sale or return

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:13 pm

What a deluded idiot!

The white 325i cabrio that simon13's bro in law bought from my mate (that i advertised on here) had less miles, better spec AND was a 325i!

Without seeing the pistonheads one i could not say that my mates one was better but my mates one is what i would describe as stunning and i dont use the term lightly!

It sold for a bargain price of £3600 and in my opinion was worth a lot more but the market is dead at the moment hence why this dreamer of a trader hasn't shifted that over priced 320i!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:33 pm

B7 wrote:I'll mail him later and offer him 4.5k. Then when he replies I'll say that i was told it was sold.

I reckon he was fishing for a £6k plus offer, as his back up reply was very soon after!

In my mind a 320i Auto with 70k and in rust free mint condition is £3k, but with the red interior, £4+k. Same price for 318i, but plus £1-2k for 325i. A 320i with Auto is a nice, but dreary ride, and I don't think a "BMW fanatic"would entertain it.

His reply will be interesting!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:34 pm

bss325i wrote:What a deluded idiot!

Were all just punters to the trade!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:36 pm

why where the bonnet is hinged does it appear to be yellow?is this that yellow wax that bmw put over everything or rust stain?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:39 pm

Probably the protective wax they coat the engine bay with when new - you can see traces of it next to the strut towers.

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:39 pm

corkie wrote:why where the bonnet is hinged does it appear to be yellow?is this that yellow wax that bmw put over everything or rust stain?

Thats the original wax showing yellow, a bit annoying on white cars as it ages badly. Very common on white cars.

Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:42 pm

There looks a hell of a lot of it around the front of the engine bay
Never seen that much on any e30 before if im honest

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:10 pm

went to see a defender yesterday, 2k from a dealer, said it was nice and solid and drove fine, but bit tatty outisde hence the price

about £8 return, in fuel to go see it

f**king chassis was hanging apart and so much rot n jagged metal, holes in floor pans even seeing daylight underneath, it was originaly yellow so all inside and bonnet etc were yellow but outside dark red, a literally bodge quick coat over outside, he couldnt even get it started, and i was having a look underneath etc, by the time he had jump started it and been messing about -whilst giving it the spin how a good mate of his had offered him £1700 for it.. i had seen enough, total waste of time,the tatty outside he had described-was the best part of the car lol !!! i felt like demanding the fuel money back

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:16 pm

id dont understand his business philosophy, if somethings not selling he puts the price up?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:25 pm

Can sort-of see the dealers point

.

Hear me out ok.

Whenever I sell cars I get bombarded with calls, emails, texts from people who havent even seen the car asking the usual "Whats the lowest you'll take" blah blah blah - and after a while it gets on your t1ts. As far as I'm concerned if I properly and truthfully advertise a car, I'll only talk money with people who can actually be bothered to come and see it. I price cars to sell at asking price taking into account everything a buyer might knock me down on - the last 4 cars I've sold have all gone for within £100 of what I was asking for them.
I've been known on several occasions to tell the "what's your best price innit ?" brigade that the car is sold simply because I don't want to deal with them - even if its not.

At the end of the day the dealer has priced the car at what he feels its worth - longshot but if it truly is concours condition someone might pay it.

Having said all that he could have just told you to stuff your £5k offer up your arse - which is what I would have done if I was selling a car that I truthfully thought was worth £8k. At the end of the day the seller doesnt know you, you havent viewed the car with a wad of cash in your pocket - as far as he's probably concerned you're just another messer.

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:34 pm

He is deluded as the seller hasn't done his research as to what the car is really worth and it anit 8 bags!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:36 pm

bss325i wrote:He is deluded as the seller hasn't done his research as to what the car is really worth and it anit 8 bags!

+1

A decent E36 M3 can be had for 8 bags....

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:36 pm

Steve-E30 wrote:There looks a hell of a lot of it around the front of the engine bay
Never seen that much on any e30 before if im honest

I have seen some E30's with virtually none like my sport which was a good thing and some E30's where the whole bay was caked in it.

Its also applied to the under side of E30's but again, some have a lot and some dont. My sport had plenty and still does which is good!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:41 pm

bss325i wrote:He is deluded as the seller hasn't done his research as to what the car is really worth and it anit 8 bags!

I'm not disagreeing with you Baz - I dont think its worth 8 Bags either!

Maybe he's not in a rush to sell it, or he thinks if he holds his nerve at that price sooner or later he'll get what he wants.

Alternatively maybe he's priced it high to try and dissuade the usual vermin-buyers that cab's seem to attract from d1cking him around.

If the OP went to actually view it with £5k in cash in his pocket ready to do a deal there and then the seller might be a little more accommodating.

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:41 pm

capri_rob wrote:Can sort-of see the dealers point .

Hear me out ok.

Whenever I sell cars I get bombarded with calls, emails, texts from people who havent even seen the car asking the usual "Whats the lowest you'll take" blah blah blah - and after a while it gets on your t1ts. As far as I'm concerned if I properly and truthfully advertise a car, I'll only talk money with people who can actually be bothered to come and see it. I price cars to sell at asking price taking into account everything a buyer might knock me down on - the last 4 cars I've sold have all gone for within £100 of what I was asking for them.
I've been known on several occasions to tell the "what's your best price innit ?" brigade that the car is sold simply because I don't want to deal with them - even if its not.

At the end of the day the dealer has priced the car at what he feels its worth - longshot but if it truly is concours condition someone might pay it.

Having said all that he could have just told you to stuff your £5k offer up your arse - which is what I would have done if I was selling a car that I truthfully thought was worth £8k. At the end of the day the seller doesnt know you, you havent viewed the car with a wad of cash in your pocket - as far as he's probably concerned you're just another messer.

I can see that point of view, but would say, with that view, he's probably better off looking for another job!

Selling the hardtops as I do, some of the oddest most unlikely replies I've had have resulted in genuine people, and a sale. As much as I like to make my mind up on the value of a customers enquiry, its often wrong. So the old golden rule in sales is that everyones a customer, no matter what i might think, and they all get treated honestly!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:53 pm

I've just checked his website, and in there are possibly some of the most expensive cars I've ever seen. £55k for an MG TC, same again for an Austin Healey 3000. His 320i Auto is in his bargain basement!

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:53 pm

Z3I wrote:
capri_rob wrote:Can sort-of see the dealers point .

Hear me out ok.

Whenever I sell cars I get bombarded with calls, emails, texts from people who havent even seen the car asking the usual "Whats the lowest you'll take" blah blah blah - and after a while it gets on your t1ts. As far as I'm concerned if I properly and truthfully advertise a car, I'll only talk money with people who can actually be bothered to come and see it. I price cars to sell at asking price taking into account everything a buyer might knock me down on - the last 4 cars I've sold have all gone for within £100 of what I was asking for them.
I've been known on several occasions to tell the "what's your best price innit ?" brigade that the car is sold simply because I don't want to deal with them - even if its not.

At the end of the day the dealer has priced the car at what he feels its worth - longshot but if it truly is concours condition someone might pay it.

Having said all that he could have just told you to stuff your £5k offer up your arse - which is what I would have done if I was selling a car that I truthfully thought was worth £8k. At the end of the day the seller doesnt know you, you havent viewed the car with a wad of cash in your pocket - as far as he's probably concerned you're just another messer.

I can see that point of view, but would say, with that view, he's probably better off looking for another job!

Selling the hardtops as I do, some of the oddest most unlikely replies I've had have resulted in genuine people, and a sale. As much as I like to make my mind up on the value of a customers enquiry, its often wrong. So the old golden rule in sales is that everyones a customer, no matter what i might think, and they all get treated honestly!

Quite right too. Depending on how far away it is you could always go and see it with some folding in your pocket and sound the guy out properly.

The usual way I deal with the "whats the lowest you'll take" Bruvs is to ask whats the most they'll pay - and then when they make a stupid low offer tell them not to bother coming.

At the end of the day much of the car buying pulic are messers or chancers - if you want the car this sounds like a seller you need to prove you're serious to.

Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:54 pm

capri_rob wrote:
bss325i wrote:He is deluded as the seller hasn't done his research as to what the car is really worth and it anit 8 bags!
I'm not disagreeing with you Baz - I dont think its worth 8 Bags either!

Maybe he's not in a rush to sell it, or he thinks if he holds his nerve at that price sooner or later he'll get what he wants.

Alternatively maybe he's priced it high to try and dissuade the usual vermin-buyers that cab's seem to attract from d1cking him around.

If the OP went to actually view it with £5k in cash in his pocket ready to do a deal there and then the seller might be a little more accommodating.

if your looking for a car, and a seller has pverpriced a 5k car to 8k and thinking its worth that....then to me thats not him overpricing to keep away mess around types, ...id see that as a chancer fool and not the sort youd want to buy a car from myself, car dealers couldnt give a monkeys who they sell too, they are only interested in ££

Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:28 pm

imo you would not get that for a 325 let alone a 320 which imo is worth about half the price because of the engine, he will have it for many years to come at that price

Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:26 am

polsta wrote:
capri_rob wrote:
bss325i wrote:He is deluded as the seller hasn't done his research as to what the car is really worth and it anit 8 bags!
I'm not disagreeing with you Baz - I dont think its worth 8 Bags either!

Maybe he's not in a rush to sell it, or he thinks if he holds his nerve at that price sooner or later he'll get what he wants.

Alternatively maybe he's priced it high to try and dissuade the usual vermin-buyers that cab's seem to attract from d1cking him around.

If the OP went to actually view it with £5k in cash in his pocket ready to do a deal there and then the seller might be a little more accommodating.
if your looking for a car, and a seller has pverpriced a 5k car to 8k and thinking its worth that....then to me thats not him overpricing to keep away mess around types, ...id see that as a chancer fool and not the sort youd want to buy a car from myself, car dealers couldnt give a monkeys who they sell too, they are only interested in ££

Have to agree, I'm the guy with the cash, and its not my job to make the dealer feel comfortable, its his job to make me feel like buying!

Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:29 pm

looks very clean but 8k for a 320?

Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:23 pm

another here on ebay. surely even the lowest mileage, cleanest of moredoors with a 320 isnt worth what this is up for?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E30-just- ... 415d3343df

Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:35 pm

deanocool wrote:another here on ebay. surely even the lowest mileage, cleanest of moredoors with a 320 isnt worth what this is up for?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E30-just- ... 415d3343df

Does look minty to be fair - sure Old Colonels or WLN would punt that out for more than £2k all day long.

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:57 am

I don't even want to get started with this thread, but feel compelled to say that offering someone 5k for a car advertised at 8k was not the right thing to do, even if it true value is £500.

Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:55 am

I dont think it is just the dealer with the sky high prices I would like a nice cab in mint condition also but looking at the cars that are out there they are either 2/3k or at the other end 7,8,9k for cars described as minters.

At the end of the day a car is only worth what someone wants to pay for it and Id just stick out and wait, maybe go and look at it if you are really interested tell him you've driven 3 hours to come see it and see what he says then when you are face to face....imo most of the cabs advertised on pistonheads that are up for 7,8,9k would have to be in as new condition to even consider them however there is no uniformity there are some Motorsports going for 5/6k with less miles on the clock than those at 8/9k.

What about this one for a little over 3k.................

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2945281.htm

Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:38 am

Martin J Daly has full page ads in the Classic Mags every month - and we're not talking Practical Classics either. So, he must be pretty successful and he's been around for a long time.
Most of these guys are chancers who are out to make as much as possible, a reason why they're not poor.
Yes, you can buy one cheaper but let's face it - you can spend £15k on a new Focus and you'll never see that 15k again. You see what sort of MGB Roadster you can buy for £8k........a nice one, but it's still an MGB.
The engine size doesn't matter that much - with Merc SL's, a 280/300 will find a buyer just as easily as a 450 or 500. The market this guy is aiming at is a well moneyed sort who is looking for a nice unfucked example to have in the heated garage for occasional use, the sort to whom 8 grand isn't a big deal.

And yes, if you pitched up with £6500 in cash, you may well buy it. Classic cars are like antiques - they very often only sell when you put the price up. If it's expensive, it MUST be good!
Personally I'm confident enough to know a decent E30 when I see it and wouldn't pay anything like that for a 320i Auto.

Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:39 pm

capri_rob wrote:
deanocool wrote:another here on ebay. surely even the lowest mileage, cleanest of moredoors with a 320 isnt worth what this is up for?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E30-just- ... 415d3343df
Does look minty to be fair - sure Old Colonels or WLN would punt that out for more than £2k all day long.

oh yeah it looks very clean but still. like you said a couple of rac/aa badge wearers would prob pay out that much on a good day lol

Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:01 pm

I remember a story from the Bentley club. Forgive me for getting the numbers a little bit out, but a woman paid 500,000 (yes, half a mil) for a 1920's Bentley that she believed was of racing vintage.

When she tried to sell it a few years later for 750k, she was "shocked" to discover from a prospective buyer that it wasn't actually a 20's racer, but simply a 20's Bentley "restored to racing spec", which is exactly what it had said on the original advert when she bought the car to start with. Still, she successfully sued the seller (a renowned Bentley restorer) on the basis of "M'lud, why would I ever have paid that much just for a 1920's Bentley?"

Price is everything.