e36 m3 evo 'loon, m-tax

[bss325i]

Soni, half the people who brag on the internet of cars they have owned/driven are full of shit.

[AndyG]

I agree with that statement, I do wonder if they've owned what they say they have at times.

Anyhow it's also very true, to experience some of the performance cars around is something that many should do, especially a good M, however the cars they mention on PH are invariably expensive performance cars that can be beyond the reach of the average driver.

I'd say the ability to run an M extends exactly to an e39 M5, very complex car, if that goes wrong then that's mega bills. That's not a cheap wagon to buy and use and a poor one will soon make the owner very poor indeed.

The e34, these are at the bottom of their curve I think so a bargain can be bought, but again M specific parts are not cheap and you need genuine parts (in my opinion) to keep then in top mechanical condition.

The trouble with the M cars is that very thing that makes it an M, the engine, its not a cheap thing to keep going.

So if you do decide that you have to have an M, go into it with your eyes wide open, however you may find though that those in your price range all need work, and if the owner appears to be the type who either scrimps on servicing or looking after it, you have to ask yourself what's lurking that you can't see, what have they possibly bodged or what non std parts have they fitted to keep within their budget. As a non std part or the incorrect item fitted could have consequences further down the line, and 9 times out of 10 it'll be the next owner who ends up putting the thing back together again. The bills could get fairly hefty.

Do your research, google them and go in-depth, it'll do no harm to know what you're going into. A good one is very rewarding to own, a bad one will be an awful experience.

[penton08]

The e36 M3 is by far and away the cheapest M car to own and run, Servicing is more than a run of the mill e36 but not by crazy amounts. Some parts can be scary prices, other parts can seem relatively cheap!!! They even do sensible MPG if needed. A e39 m5 is a completely different kettle of fish. I would love one but I am put off by any potential repair bills.

[Felix79]

The e34 M5 has all the makings of being a really collectable classic of the future. With them being the last hand built M cars and the brilliant press reviews it's pretty much a no brainer. The later one with the 6 speed boxes are the ones to go for in all the buyers guides I've seen. The sad thing about the e34 M5's are there are so many that have been left to rot away it's getting increasingly harder to get a compleatly sound one. One final point about them is most classic car insurers will not insure drivers under the age of 30.

The e39 M5 is one of the best cars BMW ever made ( claimed by the press ) and I think one of the last really nice looking 5 series. The V8 is a beast but running costs and part bills are scary expensive on these. I would absolutly love to own one of these one day but I don't see it really happening.

[pony]

This got me thinking........

I am sure there are a number of you that own/used to own a BMW M Roadcar some of them great examples, some merely good, some bad examples......but
how many more (BMW M) models are there that you would like to drive?
would you just like to sample a BMW M over a few days..... .
would you like to use a BMW M model for a wedding/christening/social event/summer trip/continetal trip etc?
would you like to experience what a great example of a BMW M E**/F** is like to drive?

But the
COSTS - search and travel/pre-purchase inspections/purchase/maintenance/insurance
TIME
INCONVENIENCE AND GENERAL HASSLE
just get in the way......?


Unless you are wealthy or lucky enough to work for BMW AG/BMW Dealer/BMW Specialist most ordinary BMW fans cannot do this except potentially sample the latest BMW M models.


The solution an exclusive BMW M Roadcar Club. In this "club" would be a VERY VERY GOOD variant of EVERY BMW M Roadcar:
E26 M1,
1M Coupe
E30 M3 Sport Evo , E36 M3 Evo, E46 M3 CS Manual , E46 M3 CSL , E92 M3 CP, E92 M3 GTS
E28 M5, E34 M5 3.8 LE, E39 M5 , E60 M5
E24 M635CSi, E63 M6
850CSi
Z3 M Coupe (S54)
Z4 M Coupe (S54)
Z3 M Roadster (S54)
Z4 M Roadster (S54)
Z8
E9 3.0CSi - though not strictly M Roadcar - for the older guys
E9 3.0CSL - though not strictly M Roadcar
2002 Turbo - though not strictly M Roadcar
E30 325i Sport Manual - though not M Roadcar
E21 323i Manual - though not M Roadcar



Problems:
Finding these cars - obviously concours examples wouldnt be a good idea but just very well-maintained completely standard roadcars which perform very close to when they were brand new.
Capital needed to start up the business
Team of very experienced/enthusiastic/knowledgable technicians/mechanics
Not getting the cars trashed - so no track days/drifting


How would it work?
I havent too many ideas but there are some options some of which are used by similar companies today:
1 - conventional charge per day £XXX per day or whatever the amount is
2 - join the "club" for a fee and start with a set number of points for the year then you use the points depending on the car......the points vary by the model/day of the week/season of the year
e.g. E30 M3 Sport Evo 50 points per day on a weekend where a E39 M5 be 30 points per day on weekend, E30 M3 Sport Evo 30 points per day on weekday
or similar system.
3.?
4.?


Target Market:
Die hard BMW M fans
Older guys 30 - 40+ who might own one or two of the above models but wanted to use/sample one of the other models
Guys - who wanted to sample the latest BMW M roadcars - younger guys more inclined to want to sample the latest BMW M roadcars than the older guys who more interested in the classic roadcars.
Performance car enthusiasts


A similar business model could be used for other marques for example, Porsches. I am sure one exists for Ferrari.

[bss325i]

You can just imagine how any M car would be treated if the driver didn't own it and have to worry about looking after it.

[pony]

You can just imagine how any M car would be treated if the driver didn't own it and have to worry about looking after it.

Yeah that is one of the big big problems.......but all these supercar clubs seem to be in business.......and that is why specifically no concours examples just very very good well maintained examples.......which perform as close to new as possible even if over 100k miles.

To help mitigate the risks......can have pre-selection criteria e.g. drivers much be over 30 / no points / big excesses etc

The fee structure would need a balance between affordability/cover the associated costs + profit generation

[Felix79]

Thing is , with the costs involed it be no cheaper than getting a ferarri on hire.

But I would love to see a collection like that above and that they are being used.

[pony]

Thing is , with the costs involed it be no cheaper than getting a ferarri on hire.

But I would love to see a collection like that above and that they are being used.

wouldnt the costs on a Ferrari be MUCH MUCH more expensive.........given they cannot handle high mileages....hence need very big services more often than BMWs e.g. every 10k miles........expensive parts........very specialist training with mid-engined cars render them much more expensive than a collection of BMW Ms......yes to the average petrol head a Ferrari hire for a day would be more appealing than a BMW M........though this business model may have a smaller/more enthuasistic client base.

The only similar costs would be factory/warehouse storage facilities/staff costs.......though you could do a strategic alliance/partnership with a BMW Dealer/BMW Specialist so outsource the costs that way of having a team of BMW Technicians.

Advertise through BMW Specialist Publications/BMW Car Club/BMW Forums

Competition: Supercar clubs/if you can get the business model up and working what isnt to say someone else can do the same thing (e.g. look at Munich Legends/Classic Heroes/4 Star Classics/Old Conel)......though harder to source these cars than the lastest collection of supercars.

Fuck knows how to start it up.

[bss325i]

**** knows how to start it up.

Buy some cars ££££££
Get suitable insurance cover £££££
Advertise ££££
Maintain them £££££

[Felix79]

**** knows how to start it up.

Buy some cars ££££££
Get suitable insurance cover £££££
Advertise ££££
Maintain them £££££

Anyone would think it's all about the £££££

[pony]

**** knows how to start it up.

Buy some cars ££££££
Get suitable insurance cover £££££
Advertise ££££
Maintain them £££££

Anyone would think it's all about the £££££

True but look how Munich Legends started up/Classic Heroes (I think Barney business partner was an old customer of his)/4 Star Classic and other business venture........just need to convince the bank to give a loan lol or you need suitable business partners with experience. Yeah some serious capital needed.

Mind you look at Dyson what a LEGEND got rejected by Hoover and took them all on and produces excellent products and is a superb engineer. He is a very rich man and deservedly so hats off to him.

[Felix79]

You would need to really put your homework in for sure. I think the biggest question is "Is there a viable market for the project to be successful?"

Also you would need to start with a faily broad base of cars , which of course will require a larger amount of funding and time.

Could be intresting to do it as track day packages , so you let them have the chance to take the legendary M cars out on the track. This way it's more of a controled monitered condition and greatly reduces the time the cars are gone and smashed up ( well if the run off areas are big enough )

[Kos]

you all make it sound so easy

besides, there are a number of nice classic BMW available to rent/hire. e24 '02's e30's.

there is no more risk renting these cars than there is a lambo or other exotic. rental prices need to realistic. and lets be honest you're type of clientèle will not be a 21 year old hooligan. when you run a business you also have the right to refuse. besides, i doubt the insurance poilicy you have would cover a young driver.

as for selling an e36 m3, yes lots about yes lots of shit about but priced right it will always sell no matter what time of year.

i'd say its worth buying a decent one, run it for 6 months and move it on. buy the right car and it will not owe you a penny.

e35 M5's, yes they do rust ( thats a subject you know about dan ? ) yes a lot have been neglected, as have many cars once they get to the 3rd and 4th owners.

e34 M5's , now is the time to buy them. i'd personally go for a 3.6 with 5sp box. no SLS to worry about and the 3.8's with 6sp are not that much faster.

finally, e39 M5's. buy the right car and you will be fine, but they do have some well documented flaws, ARB links, MAF's being just 2 of them. again, but the right car and flip it a few months later and you'll be fine. running costs should not be that bad, yes it juicy, yes like to drink a bit of oil, yes they are hard on tyres but you go into M5 ownership knowing this

[Kos]

hire an e30 M3

http://www.pistonheads.com/trackdays/in ... oryId=9304

[Felix79]

you all make it sound so easy



as for selling an e36 m3, yes lots about yes lots of shit about but priced right it will always sell no matter what time of year.

i'd say its worth buying a decent one, run it for 6 months and move it on. buy the right car and it will not owe you a penny.

http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/motoring/ca ... t-Price/8/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car ... -cars.html

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/03072006/55/se ... car-0.html

Generally they all come across the same , the 3rd does raise what you said , a good car will sell but going by the last few winters he can put people off venturing out.

Also insurance premiums are set to rise again next year and no doubt it will cost more to fill the tank so you could see even more compition once you try to sell on.

Do you think that it is easier to shift the 2 doors or 4 doors for something like this?

Oh and check the vehicals history , because there going to be some shockers out there ( remember the m3 hammond bought on TopGear ).

[Kos]

While history is always good on car I'd consider paying for a proper inspection by some one who knows these cars , and AA/RAC inspection is not good enough in my opinion.

If I was to buy an e36 m3 I'd go for a saloon. Most scum want cabs and coupes. They will always be more desirable but in the long term any of the 2 with tin tops will be bought based on condition not the number of doors.

My choise would be a 3.0 4 door in avus blue, black leather and wood. If it's a coupe I'd like avus with the motorsport cloth & sued combination and no wood. Dakar yellow also would be of interest to me.

Fiji or mint green (individual options only) are sexy as is a GT2 in imola red

Plenty to choose from and you can be fussy if you are not to bothers about colour. The only colour I'd avoid is Boston green. It does the car no favours and not many people I speak to like it. As far as re sell time goes, a good car will always sell regardless of the time of year, but if you buy now you'll not have much good weather to enjoy it and flip it come march/april. Id get out there see what's available and take your time looking at what's available. You'll get a feel for what's a good car and what's not. Buy when you are ready and sell when you are ready or had enough.

Insurance, if you restrict the policy a premium will not be too bad. Cap the mileage & use. I don't think any of my premiums are unreasonable at the moment.
They only one has gone up, and it's not by much

Again , Do your research. No one is forcing you into buying a car so time is on your side.

[pony]

While history is always good on car I'd consider paying for a proper inspection by some one who knows these cars , and AA/RAC inspection is not good enough in my opinion.

Are BMW AUC inspections generally the best way to go in your opinion when buying any BMW M whether E46 or E36? Are BMW AUC inspections strict enough? I had one done on my E30 after i bought it (which is not the right way to do things tut tut) but slowly working through everything thats basically wrong with it. Dont want to make that mistake again.

Thanks for the advice everyone btw. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

PS I was doing some more thinking about that "M Club" i believe its possible though alot of work for sure. Someone like Munich Legends or one of their competitors with the industry contacts, established brand name, resources, plus they have an experienced team of technicians/mechanics could easily venture into this.....potentially in the future. Alternatively, someone who has setup a similar supercar club before. These types have the know how to take the concept to reality. I wouldnt put it past someone having thought of it before and possibly being setup in the future.

As for that track day club you mentioned Kos its a great idea and was probably inevitable. I bet it was a City boy (investment banker/hedge fund manager) and a car salesman that set it up together?

[bss325i]

e34 M5's , now is the time to buy them. i'd personally go for a 3.6 with 5sp box. no SLS to worry about and the 3.8's with 6sp are not that much faster.

All E34 M5's have Self Leveling Suspension on the rear and the 3.8's have Electronic Damper Control.

[Simon13]

SLS is the jargon Slack Load of Shit

[bss325i]

£500 each rear shock on a 3.6, £1000 each on a 3.8!

[Kos]

e34 M5's , now is the time to buy them. i'd personally go for a 3.6 with 5sp box. no SLS to worry about and the 3.8's with 6sp are not that much faster.

All E34 M5's have Self Leveling Suspension on the rear and the 3.8's have Electronic Damper Control.

thats what i ment

[harry_p]

£500 each rear shock on a 3.6, £1000 each on a 3.8!

pair of sachs m3 evo rear dampers ive just ordered, an eye watering £53 each

[e30topless]

e34 M5's , now is the time to buy them. i'd personally go for a 3.6 with 5sp box. no SLS to worry about and the 3.8's with 6sp are not that much faster.

All E34 M5's have Self Leveling Suspension on the rear and the 3.8's have Electronic Damper Control.

could normal E34 struts be used instead?

[bss325i]

e34 M5's , now is the time to buy them. i'd personally go for a 3.6 with 5sp box. no SLS to worry about and the 3.8's with 6sp are not that much faster.

All E34 M5's have Self Leveling Suspension on the rear and the 3.8's have Electronic Damper Control.

could normal E34 struts be used instead?

Yes. Its very easy to do a SLS/EDC delete and fit B8's instead.

[Andyboy]

3.6's have SLS and standard type front shocks, 3.8 five speeds have automatic EDC and six speed cars (and those with the N'ring package) have switchable EDC. All pretty nasty now, and I wouldn't touch an E34 M5 now unless it was cheap enough to be a profitable breaker when it went seriously wrong and wasn't such a heap of shit that it couldn't be bought cheap AND fixed up for a few quid. Unlikely.

Given how little you can buy a really good 4 door M3 for now, the E34 M5 needs to be a really good deal to be worth the inevitable aggro.